Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Leningrad (carstein vs AI)

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Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Leningrad (carstein vs AI)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Leningrad (carstein vs AI)

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Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Lening... - 6/13/2012 8:40:38 PM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

Let me introduce myself - my nickname is carstein (and I think this is my first post). I don't have much of an experience in games like WitE. While I was learning how to play I was struggling - manual was bit too into details and typical AAR guides were not detailed enough. Don't get me wrong - they were helpful, but often they did not explain, why player was making one or another decision or what some things mean from the game perspective. So - I've decided to post my AAR covering my attempt to capture Leningrad with as much explanation as possible (and feasible). Exaplanation both about tactics and game itself.

Bear in mind, that I've finished that scenario with good results (decisive axis victory), so this AAR is post-mortem, not live one. I was playing as an Axis commander and difficulty settings were set to normal (with Fog of War turned on).

Of course I welcome you to post comments, suggestions and critique.

Post #: 1

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/13/2012 9:01:47 PM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

Every scenario we should begin with two things - checking our objectives and forces we can command.

This is an overview of all our objectives. Some of them are more important then others. Not only because they are worth more points, but very often because of geographical location or manpower/production capabilities.

Our obvious goal is to capture Leningrad. Let's inspect why (in case we would be playing 41-45 campaign game) should we do that.

As we can see Leningrad has a huge population and many important factories. Other surrounding areas does not have big factories, but they can provide Soviet side huge manpower pool to form their units from.

Another important objectives are Pskov and Novogrod, because they are on the axis of my planned assault (later about it). Talin will also be captured, but I'm not planning to commit strong forces to archive that task.

I've decided to ignore (at least at the beginig) Vielkie Luki and Rzhev - they are not on the axis of main assault and I don't think I have forces I can spare. I can do that, because this is not campaign, so I don't have to do any major thurst towards Moscov. In campaign hovewer this task will be given to Army Group Center, because that's their theater of operation.

(in reply to carstein)

Post #: 2

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/13/2012 9:05:43 PM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

Now, most important thing - forces we have in our command.

Let's open OOB tool to see what have we got here. OKH (Oberkommando des Heeres) has been quite generous - we have in our disposal Army Group North with 16th, 18th Army and 4th Panzer Group. Also we have small support from Army group Center with 9th Army. To that we have Finish forces, Luftflotte 1 and some supporting forces like police forces and rail repair unit.

Drilling down we can see, that 9th Army has only one infrantry corps (XXIII Corps) with three division, and no heavy support, so we cannot use them for heavy city fights. Let's use them to protect the right flank of our offensive and as some sort of strategic reserve. If we look at the reinforcements screen we can see that in turn 3 we will recieve support from V Corps with four infrantry division, so we can use those two corps to push where it will be necessary.

Backbone of our offensive will consist of 18th and 16th Army. Let's inspect them. 16th Army has three infrantry corps with very heavy support - II and XXVIII Corps should be our main forces assaulting Leningrad. Unfortunately two corpses have only two infrantry divisions each, so we need to do something about it.

Our second army - 18th is quite formidable too. Two strong infrantry corps with heavy support (I Corps and XXVI Corps) are well suited to assault Leningrad. Other two corps are relativly week and without support, so we need to reinforce them.

And finally our 4th Panzer Group - two Panzer Corps.

The only problem is that those corps have infrantry division attached to them. Non-motorized division will slow down my blitzkrig attack very much, so I need to reassign them - great opportunity to reinforce some of the weak infrantry divisions.

So, now we know what we can throw at those Soviet divisions let's plan how are we going to do that.

< Message edited by carstein -- 6/13/2012 9:55:09 PM >

(in reply to carstein)

Post #: 3

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/13/2012 10:34:56 PM

Jabba

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I've decided to ignore (at least at the beginig) Vielkie Luki and Rzhev - they are not on the axis of main assault and I don't think I have forces I can spare. I can do that, because this is not campaign, so I don't have to do any major thurst towards Moscov.

Interesting AAR. I, also a beginner, recently completed the Road to Leningrad scenario, and I faced the same dilemma. I decided after some hesitation to detach the 16th Army to advance towards Rzhev.

The decision paid off: 16th Army faced minimal resistance and not only captured Velikie Luki and Rzhev, but also wheeled north to capture Vishny Volochek. The icing on the cake was that having undertaken this grand left-wheel manoeuvre, 16th Army ended the game by taking the Soviets - by this time holed up in the extreme north-east - in the rear, completing their encirclement. Rarely has a strategic gamble paid greater dividends!

The downside I suppose is that I was not strong enough to take Leningrad, which ended the game completely isolated but still mostly in Soviet hands. This didn't matter though, as every other victory hex on the map was in my hands. Bypassing Leningrad seemed like a wise move as it was chock-a-block with Soviet units.

It just goes to show that there are many different ways to skin a Red! I don't doubt your strategy was equally valid, but I can testify that the German player can afford to detach forces to advance towards Rzhev.

It seems to me that the trouble with a narrow front strategy is what to do if the narrow front hits a brick wall. A broader front provides more flexibility to exploit gaps in the defence by changing the axis of advance.

The eternal strategic dilemma, I suppose!

< Message edited by Jabba -- 6/13/2012 10:44:58 PM >

(in reply to carstein)

Post #: 4

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/13/2012 11:13:22 PM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jabba

Interesting AAR. I, also a beginner, recently completed the Road to Leningrad scenario, and I faced the same dilemma. I decided after some hesitation to detach the 16th Army to advance towards Rzhev.

The decision paid off: 16th Army faced minimal resistance and not only captured Velikie Luki and Rzhev, but also wheeled north to capture Vishny Volochek. The icing on the cake was that having undertaken this grand left-wheel manoeuvre, 16th Army ended the game by taking the Soviets - by this time holed up in the extreme north-east - in the rear, completing their encirclement. Rarely has a strategic gamble paid greater dividends!

The downside I suppose is that I was not strong enough to take Leningrad, which ended the game completely isolated but still mostly in Soviet hands. This didn't matter though, as every other victory hex on the map was in my hands. Bypassing Leningrad seemed like a wise move as it was chock-a-block with Soviet units.

It just goes to show that there are many different ways to skin a Red! I don't doubt your strategy was equally valid, but I can testify that the German player can afford to detach forces to advance towards Rzhev.

Thanks for very valid comment.

Interesting strategy I must say - I've decided that I would need at least 5-6 Corps to break city defense and protect my flanks, so I needed both armies to do that. In the end I've captured Vielkie Luki and Rzhev, but I do not want to spoil the surprise :)
Probably my strategy was bit too cautious after all.

(in reply to Jabba)

Post #: 5

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/14/2012 12:01:07 AM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

About the plan - let the map speak for me.

As you can see I've decided, that 18th Army will march toward Riga, then turn north, march through Estonia and approach Leningrad from the west side. I'm not expecting much of the resistance near Riga and while crossing Daugava River and in Estonia although probably some fights will occur while crossing Narva river and will pretty much continue while closing to the city.

16th Army is going to march wide front taking Kaunas and crossing Daugava in multiple places. I'm expectig that a few Russian divisions may want to delay me on my way there. Next goal would be Pskov and I'm expecting some kind of ressistance there. Then 16th Army will approach Leningrad from the south. Probably majority of Soviet forces will try to delay me near Novogrod.

9th Army is going to support the effort of 16th Army marching behind it and near the Pskov will turn east to secure river lines north and south of lake Ilmen. This army will be also tasked with securing the Novogrod.

Main task of 4th Panzer Group will be to ride as fast as possible towards Pskov, Novogrod and Leningrad encircling enemy units, distrupting Soviet supply network, airports and HQs. If possible this task force will also capture Pskov and Novogrod (if of course this won't be time and men consuming).

This is my strategic plan for the whole scenario, but now we need to formulate operational plan for next three turns.

(in reply to carstein)

Post #: 6

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/15/2012 11:12:33 AM

timmyab

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Unfortunately you can't learn very much from playing the AI.In this scenario it basically just defends Leningrad in strength and leaves the rest of the map free for the Germans to roam across more or less at will.
Against a competent human opponent your best bet is to concentrate most of 18th army on Pskov.Sending it through Estonia seems intuitive, but is actually a waste of valuable time.By the time it's got to Narva and fought it's way through the difficult terrain there, it could have got past Pskov and be across the Luga.This unhinges the Narva defences anyway.There's very little to fight for in Estonia so both sides usually just screen it.The introduction of 'end turn' VPs for Tallinn would help in this respect and would simulate the Kriegsmarine's keeness to eliminate the port as soon as possible.
Another thing I notice is that you've got no flank protection in the South.Again, this will work against the AI.Against a human, 9th army will have to provide proper flank protection otherwise you'll get Russian cavalry cutting across your supply lines.

< Message edited by timmyab -- 6/15/2012 11:21:13 AM >

(in reply to carstein)

Post #: 7

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/20/2012 4:25:39 PM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

Well - you are absolutely right, that you won't learn about about the strategy while fighting against the AI - but as a beginner I decided to do this. Not to learn about the strategy, but to learn more about various concepts in the game in more friendly and forgiving environment.

Thanks for all the advices about the strategy - it pretty much looked like you just described (no need to protect south flank, massed forces around Leningrad and such).
Please, continue to read this thread and point out all the places, where semi-seasoned player would tear me apart :)

I still hope that this AAR will be valuable for non-experienced WitE players. (and more post are in a queue - I just had no time to finish them).

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 8

RE: Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Le... - 6/21/2012 12:26:30 AM

carstein

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2012
Status: offline

What I am aiming at is encircle Soviet units located between Riga and Kaunas, cross Daugava river and Panzer forces should be able to reach Riga. All the infrantry divisions should clean the border area and move forward - the sooner I reach the Leningrad, the less organized the defense will be.

But before we move, let's bring some order to our army. Administrative changes are important, because our units can benefit from well defined command structure - in terms of supply, support and CV (Combat Value). For example, if you are making deliberate attack with units reporting to different HQ you will suffer from negative CV modificator.

First admin change - let's pusch 253th Inf division down the command chain from 16th Army HQ to X Corps HQ. It should be fairly cheap in terms of Admin points.

Second admin change will be more serious - 269th Inf division will be moved from XXXXI Pz Corps to XXXVII Corps - from admin point perspective it is more expensive change. But before we make this change let us do some fighting.

First thing you should always do in first week of Operation Barbarossa is eliminating enemy air forces - this means bombarding enemy airport. In your first turn it is very effective. Focus on fighters airbases first, because later on you may want to send bombers without strong escort. Let's bomb three nearest airbases.

Ok, we've done pretty well I think:

Now would be good time to finally clear the border area and begin our operation. Here you can see situation after all my moves.

Let me point you some important things here. First, in the middle of our area of operation you can see couple of soviet divisions encircled - at least three tank divisions, one motorized division and one infrantry division. This small pocket is pretty much sealed and ready to be cleaned with minimal effort. This will be done by XXVIII Corps from 16th Army and XXXVIII Corps from 18th Army - hope this will be sufficient.

In the meantime rest of 16th Army captured Kaunas routing all units defending town and L Corps from 18th Army has been tasked with cleaning up the soviet units west of Riga. 9th Army has been frozen so far.

So far loses are looking good for me.

(in reply to carstein)

Post #: 9

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> Tutorial-like AAR - beginners attempt to capture Leningrad (carstein vs AI)

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