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RE: Pricing Hurting Sales?

 
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RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/12/2012 5:02:21 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		You're not, I'd pretty much put money on the majority of people being put off by the combined price and it's a massive shame.

Image when the third expansion hits, you're then looking at well over $100... borderline insanity, surely?

(in reply to Vedian)
Post #: 61
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/12/2012 5:06:56 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		You could employ the Laffer-Khaldun curve, which is applied to tax, to explain the price issue.

In essence the potential result of the Laffer curve is that increasing price beyond a certain point will be counterproductive for raising further revenue.

This is also true of having too low a price whereby your market saturates and your sales peak and any resulting price change has a negligible result regardless of how low the prices goes.

There's a happy medium somewhere between expensive and cheap, unfortunately DW is way off it.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 62
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/16/2012 5:30:23 PM   
Montesano

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/27/2010
Status: offline 		Obviously Matrix Games can run their business however they see fit, but I do feel bad about DW developer. This game bundled on Steam for $30-$40 would make a killing, yet they are stuck with this archaic publisher.
As for comments related to “marketing gurus”, that is what’s so sad. The pricing scheme for this game is so obviously out of whack you do not need to be a guru to understand that. Matrix pricing is a bit loony across the board, but this type of game is less niche then the others, so it is simply inexcusable. Hopefully the developers can get away from Matrix and partner with someone that knows what they are doing.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 63
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/16/2012 9:51:48 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		It's not just price, there's a gross lack of PR for DW!

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/distant-worlds

4 reviews in how many years?

In comparison the brand new INDIE Endless Horizons has 11 reviews already!

DW deserves more praise and exposure than Endless Horizons, for sure.

(in reply to Montesano)
Post #: 64
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 12:37:03 AM   
Beag

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 5/23/2012
Status: offline 		Endless Space has something DW has not.

Steam. And some people still say it´s irrelevant and doesn´t impact sales. IMO, even if Steam conditios are harsh, once the game is known, a DW 2 would already have a much larger public looking for it and then ditching Steam wouldn´t be as important.

On a secondary note, Endless Space is also prettier and makes for nice videos to put on Youtube, thus fooling many people (the combat system is silly and late game is all about spam and auto-resolving battles, it seems.)

< Message edited by Beag -- 7/18/2012 12:41:13 AM >

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 65
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 3:01:15 AM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline 		Just in case anyone missed it, just thought I'd put a link to what Erik
has said about all this:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3141719

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to Beag)
Post #: 66
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 9:44:00 AM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beag

Endless Space has something DW has not.

Steam. And some people still say it´s irrelevant and doesn´t impact sales. IMO, even if Steam conditios are harsh, once the game is known, a DW 2 would already have a much larger public looking for it and then ditching Steam wouldn´t be as important.

On a secondary note, Endless Space is also prettier and makes for nice videos to put on Youtube, thus fooling many people (the combat system is silly and late game is all about spam and auto-resolving battles, it seems.)


It doesn't cost anything to send reviewers a copy of your game, or are they expecting the press to spend $100+ too?

NEED MORE COVERAGE!

(in reply to Beag)
Post #: 67
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 5:19:15 PM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		I would love to buy the game but I can't justify $80 on the complete package. I would pull the trigger on it if it was $35-45 maybe up to $50. I love 4x space games and own almost everyone DW is one of the few I lack and it is because of the price point I could buy three other games.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 68
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 7:12:23 PM   
Algoritm


Posts: 27
Joined: 7/18/2012
From: France
Status: offline 		I've read this thread and feel I've got to share my opinion on this.

Firstly, I'm one of those casual players who doesn't have more than an hour to spend on a game per day. But I like to make that hour count.

Distant World definately feels like the sort of game I'd be into, and personnaly, I don't think a demo is needed since the official video's are actually taken from the game and well explained, unlike the meaningless cinematics for other games of the genre that show breath-taking space ships blowing up which have nothing to do with how the game plays out.

My biggest problem with DW is... you guessed it: the price. I can understand someone having tons of free time getting the most out of his money on this game. But I can't convince myself to spend that amount, no matter how much I would love it, considering the time I can spend on it.

If the game + expansions were bundled and sold for 50$, I wouldn't hesitate a second.

(in reply to Vedian)
Post #: 69
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 9:34:29 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		We should also say the last thing we want is the developer to read this and feel disheartened that people essential want more for less i.e. reduction in price.

The product is great, we want more people to become fans and enjoy it but that won't happen with the current pricing structure.

Fingers crossed the publishers do a complete bundle with all three titles at a reduced price or perhaps coincide a bundle with the next expansion to get first timers on board and enjoying the game gaining it merit and the praise it deserves.

(in reply to Algoritm)
Post #: 70
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/18/2012 11:46:03 PM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Well I will keep $50 in reserve for the moment they decide to do a bundle for that amount.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 71
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/20/2012 6:18:19 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Well I just spend my $80 bucks on the game along with the expansions. I had no problem doing so eoither :). People are just too used to how fast prices drop in other games and expect the same thing here.

Regardless of how many people say the will buy DW if the price dropped, I hate to tell you, but people lie . Regardless of what people say, if matrix dropped the prive $5, people will then say 'Oh they are dropping the price so i will wait until the price drops further' Look at the US housing market if you want to see this in action.

People will not buy until two things have occured regardless of the actual cost of something
1. The precieved value of the item equals or exceeds the cost of the item
2. They can afford (or think they can lol) the item.

Both 1 and 2 have to be true for a sale to occur. So in the case of DW, for some the precieved value is not there while for others they do not feel they can afford it at the current price. While lowering the price MAY increase units sold, it will NOT necessarily increase profits for Matrix. Also just because Company A lowers a price does not mean Company B needs to. Otherwise IPads would be selling for a lot less

A staed before without access to matrix's units sold, no one here has any idea of how Matrix is doing with DW. They could be selling 100 units/month or 1,000 or 1 (the one I bought ) .

Regardless of popular belief, dropping of prices of 'other' game through other fulfillment centers, i.e. Steam, etc., do not mean that they want to increase sales. It could very well mean that the copany is tryibng to recoop its costs quicker before everyone turns to the next big thing. Or a dozen other reasons. Revenue streams from sales is a lot more complex and pricing changes occur for a lot of reasoms besides increing profits and units sold. That Matrix sees no reason to do that, indicates to me they are having no issues with their current sales model, including DW.

So either buy it like I did yesterday or not. But do not expect the price to drop based on this thread. No matter how entertaining it is :)

(in reply to Neuronomad)
Post #: 72
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/20/2012 6:25:02 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		It'd be interesting to know how many they do sell actually, I don't see any issue in them letting us know either?

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 73
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/20/2012 6:40:47 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Yea it is an issue lol.

Units sold is a highly private number, not just for Matrix, but everyione else too. Amazon for example has never published any of their number of Kindle sales. As opposed people estimating the number they have sold.

So if Matrix said they sold 1,000 units why would that matter to you? After all Matrix is not EA or Bioware . If matrix sold 100,000 copies of DW, would that make you buy a copy more?

Just trying to figure out why providing that numbe rwould amke any difference to anyone . You either buy the game of not. It shold not matter if 10 or a 1,000,000 copies were sold to whether you buy the game or not. Especially since it is SP only lol.

If you just want to make sure that Matrix is making money, the fact that their web site is still up and they are releasing new games and patches, says that they are. No other information is needed

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 74
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/20/2012 7:54:03 PM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Well I certainly don't mind paying a decent price for a decent product. However I have spent $50 plenty of times on AAA games that I hated after 5 minutes. However I am willing to spend $50 on indie products but once you get up into the $75-80 mark it really gets unattractive to me. I really would like the game but I just can't justify that amount. I would love to see them go the route that Stardock did with SIN.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 75
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 12:40:10 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		So there you are. In my post above, you are unwilling to buy the game because your precieved value of the game does not equal or exceed the price involved.

Your post does seem odd though as you indicate you really would like the game. I bought my copy soly based on the review at Eight of Eight. I was actually looking for a differnt game when I ran across this one lol.

I have tried all the othe space sims, like SINs, Galtic Civ etc. Space Empires Vis the one I played the most. Out of all I tried X3 Terrian was the one I like the most, but it was too tactical for me.

So far DW and the expansions are the best space sim ever. So to me the precieved value was greater than the cost. There is nothing wrong if anyone else's opinion is different than mine. So you either willing to pay the price as advertised or not.

The odd thing about prices of items is at what price point would you buy the game? $5 less, $10? To put it abouther way, you are unwilling to pay $80 for a game you think you will really like, but you would pay $70? If $5 or $10 is that important to you, you should not be buying games at all lol.

(in reply to Neuronomad)
Post #: 76
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 2:40:19 AM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that I would happily pay $50 for the game, I think that is more than fair as it is standard fair for AAA titles, with Indies being much less. I own SIN, GC2 and the whole gambit granted I got a lot of them off Steam on sales. I am saying that $50 for a bundle would be a very good deal, but anything over that to me reaches beyond that. I am all for the developers charging whatever they want to. Don't get me wrong, I am a very big capitalist. On the flip side just because they have a right to charge what they want, I see nothing wrong with interested parties stating what they see as the value of said products or services.

The game may be every bit worth $80. Heck I have paid $10 for games that after playing I felt guilty almost for not having paid more for. That said I do not see any problem with interested potential customers coming on and expressing interest in a game but letting the developers know that the price is keeping them from pulling the trigger on a purchase.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 77
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 2:41:57 AM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Sorry my browser screwed up and made multiple post.

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that I would happily pay $50 for the game, I think that is more than fair as it is standard fair for AAA titles, with Indies being much less. I own SIN, GC2 and the whole gambit granted I got a lot of them off Steam on sales. I am saying that $50 for a bundle would be a very good deal, but anything over that to me reaches beyond that. I am all for the developers charging whatever they want to. Don't get me wrong, I am a very big capitalist. On the flip side just because they have a right to charge what they want, I see nothing wrong with interested parties stating what they see as the value of said products or services.

The game may be every bit worth $80. Heck I have paid $10 for games that after playing I felt guilty almost for not having paid more for. That said I do not see any problem with interested potential customers coming on and expressing interest in a game but letting the developers know that the price is keeping them from pulling the trigger on a purchase.

< Message edited by Neuronomad -- 7/21/2012 11:42:15 AM >

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 78
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 2:43:11 AM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Deleted (duplicate posting)

< Message edited by Neuronomad -- 7/21/2012 11:42:47 AM >

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 79
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 2:44:55 AM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Deleted (duplicate posting)

< Message edited by Neuronomad -- 7/21/2012 11:43:27 AM >

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 80
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 9:46:19 AM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Yea it is an issue lol.

Units sold is a highly private number, not just for Matrix, but everyione else too. Amazon for example has never published any of their number of Kindle sales. As opposed people estimating the number they have sold.

So if Matrix said they sold 1,000 units why would that matter to you? After all Matrix is not EA or Bioware . If matrix sold 100,000 copies of DW, would that make you buy a copy more?

Just trying to figure out why providing that numbe rwould amke any difference to anyone . You either buy the game of not. It shold not matter if 10 or a 1,000,000 copies were sold to whether you buy the game or not. Especially since it is SP only lol.

If you just want to make sure that Matrix is making money, the fact that their web site is still up and they are releasing new games and patches, says that they are. No other information is needed


As a fan of the game it would be interesting to know, many other independent develops divulge the information, many of them!

Also where do you think we get industry sales figures and statistics from? Look hard enough and you will find sales figures for titles.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 81
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 10:01:46 AM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		Anyway enough of the speculation and theorising.

Yesterday on the biggest UK computer forum, full of avid gamers, someone asked for a 4x game recommendation, so naturally I chimed in with Distant Worlds and there came the issue.

Of the numerous replies in the thread they recommended the following including two BRAND NEW titles:

Star Ruler - Ł3.25
GalCiv 2 Ultimate (all expansions) - Ł6.49
Sins: Trinity - Ł6.49
Swords of Stars II - Ł14.99
Endless Space - Ł17.25
Sins: Rebellion - Ł24.99

Distant Worlds - Ł61.97

So for the price of DW you can nearly buy all the other games, including two brand new titles. Now tell me that isn't a problem?

As usual my recommendation for DW fell on deaf ears because as soon as they see the price they walk away... in fact someone asked if the price were a mistake, twice.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 82
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 11:52:24 AM   
Neuronomad

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		Exactly Bleek. I personally own all of those and other than one or two gotten on sale from Steam the total of all the games is less than Distant Worlds with the two expansion packs. Regardless of how good the product is it is a hard sell when one can pick up three or four similar games for less. I still feel that Stardock priced SINS the best if you look at the fact that Rebellion has all prior content for less than $40. Similarly the newest game similar to Distant Worlds (Endless Space) can be had for $30. Even the upcoming Legends of Pegasus can be had for under $35.

Once again I would love to add Distant Worlds to my collection of Space 4x/RTS type games but it is hard to justify given the price being asked. Given the competition $40-50 for a combination of the game and the xpacs would be a nice price point.

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 83
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 4:13:15 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		To keep things the same, I will use Eight of Eight where I can to see why these games cost what they do.

Star Ruler (II I assume) 4 out of 8 http://www.outofeight.info/2010/08/star-ruler-review.html
GalCiv 2 (Released in Feb 2006, last expansion in 2008. So much older than DW in computer time at least lol) 8/8 at the time. Somehow I do not think it would get the same rating today http://www.outofeight.info/2008/05/galactic-civilizations-ii-twilight-of.html
Sins (1st released in 2008. Again much older than DW. Although the new expnasion was released this year) Original was 8/8 while the latest expansion was only 4/8 if you already owned previous versions of the game. http://www.outofeight.info/search?q=sins
Swords of the Stars II (released 2011) only a 3/8 rating http://www.outofeight.info/2011/11/sword-of-stars-ii-lords-of-winter.html
Endless Space (the closest to DW in release date) 7/8 http://www.outofeight.info/search?q=endless I should point out that this has no expansions yet. So a true comparision would be to compare the base DW game to thiis $39.95 to $29.99 USD so a $10 difference, not $50 as no one is forcing you to buy the expansions of DW

I own all of these execpt Endless space. I did not like SINs (or the expansions). Just did not like how the game worked. Played it a few times and then just stopped. Same thing with the other two, Ruler II and Swords. Gal Civ 2 was the one I have played the most, but after a while it just got boring. No matter how big the setup was, you still run out of room which i thought was pretty unrealistic for a space game lol. Same thing was true in Space Empires (III-V) which I also loved in the day.

Once a game reaches a certain age, most companies drop their price to try and get a few dollars more out of the franchise. Or if the initial units sold is not projected to reach the pre-release target, (usually for a bad game and/or release) prices will also drop. Matrix has done this as well with DW by providing a $10 off each expansion if bought at the same time as DW. So this is a 'bundled' price even though not compinded into a single package/download. Just because the price point has not reached what 'everyone' thinks it should be does not mean Matrix should lower the price.

One last thing to remember in this discussion, Matrix is just the distributer of this game. It was not developed by them. So Matrix has a contract with the game developer that I am sure clearly lays out the pricing and when (and if) Matrix is allowed to adjust it. So this discussion should be over at Code Force versus here


(in reply to Neuronomad)
Post #: 84
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 4:32:36 PM   
Rtwfreak

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 12/11/2011
Status: offline 		I think the reason Matrixgames games remain so high is because they are Exclusive to wargaming and strategy games. A few of their independents have ventured off on their own to sites like Gamersgate and prices do fall there and that's where I get most of my Matrixgames titles I own. But, by having the exclusive games to this site and this site only they don't have to lower their prices and can keep them at full retail regular prices for as long as they see fit.

Other ways to get Matrixgames at discount prices is to search the internet for sales like on Amazon.com and Ebay as I've gotten several games that way for well under $10 like Panzer Command series that got me Panzer Command Osfront for free eventually. The Tin Soldiers series was onsale for $9.99 at one time on ebay as well as Steel Panthers General series for around $25 and WitP origional game was $35. The Time of Fury series was on Gamersgate for a hugh discount this last year except maybe the last one but I'm pretty sure it will soon show up at a discount as well. They had the Ageod series for awhile perhaps still do but it too has seen reduced prices at other sites like Gamersgate and maybe even Steam since they were with Paradox for awhile.

Don't think you will see Distant Worlds go down in price except during the christmas specials and perhaps one of those once in a blue moon sales they have in the middle of the year but there are other games simular like Endless Space that will go down in price.

ALways saves to search around though as you never know when someone will want to offload their used copies of Matrixgames titles. Most of us are grogs though and keep everything wargame or good strategy game until we die. So finding a deal or sale is uncommon. You can get HPS games cheaper though on ebay or NWSonline.com

Good game hunting to yahh.

(in reply to Bebop Cola)
Post #: 85
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/21/2012 5:58:17 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

To keep things the same, I will use Eight of Eight where I can to see why these games cost what they do.


And in doing so you're ignoring practically everything that has gone before in that most games are priced based on their age.

My example list wasn't a recommendation, they were from other people on the thread in question.

The glaringly obvious trend in prices is the fact that, with age, they go down regardless of how well received or perceived one title is over another!

Your argument about expansions is fair, but that doesn't answer why the base game remains expensive.

< Message edited by Bleek -- 7/21/2012 5:59:33 PM >

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 86
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/22/2012 2:28:00 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		Pricing Hurting Sales?

Nope.

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 87
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/22/2012 2:53:18 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		They do a sale every November if that helps. I also imagine at some point in the future when the franchise is completed (still at least one more expansion to go) there may be a bundle.

_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 88
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/22/2012 8:08:19 PM   
Bleek


Posts: 720
Joined: 10/26/2011
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

Pricing Hurting Sales?

Nope.


A flawless argument!

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 89
RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? - 7/22/2012 9:47:29 PM   
Talon_XBMCX


Posts: 220
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline 		I find it interesting that these discussions dont come up for games like War in the East or War in the Pacific.


(in reply to Bleek)
Post #: 90
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