Pricing Hurting Sales? (Full Version)

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DMan777 -> Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 12:44:51 AM)

To the fine folks at Code Force/Matrix Games,

First, I'm a huge fan of Distant Worlds. I think you folks deserve whatever success you've found and more. Though, with the age of the game, and additionally, the expansions, I think that you've probably leveraged the true fans of the 4X space genre as best as you can. Those of us that bought the vanilla game and each expansion as they came out, never faced the large expense of becoming current with the game. At least not all at once. One of the sites I frequent, www.gamerswithjobs.com, has a huge space game following. Recently, there's been a discussion regarding several members wanting to get on board with DW, but are sullied by the price of the game+expansions.

My point is that perhaps you should consider that the pricing model you're currently using has reached the vast bulk of the players that are willing to pay it. I think you might attract a large group of additional, less devout 4X fans if you considered melding the expansions into the full game price. Or if that's unacceptable, perhaps $50 US for the game plus expansions. I think that this, especially if implemented soon, would line up nicely with the forthcoming expansion. You'd have a large group of additional players who would be anxious for more content toward the end of the year when the next expansion is due.

I know how great DW is, and I want everyone else to know too. I just wonder if maybe we've reached a point of diminishing returns regarding the current pricing model.

Thanks for your time,

D-



jpwrunyan -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 1:41:38 AM)

I am getting so tired of these stupid thread posts bitching about price.
If you think something is too expensive that is a clear indication that somewhere your brain believes it is not worth buying. And so probably you shouldnt buy it. You dont need to be a zen grandmaster to figure this out. But you do need a brain...

If you want to get your friends into this game but they say it is too expensive, maybe they dont want to play it. Maybe the rest of the world doesnt want to play it. Maybe people who do want to play it will buy it. Maybe people who dont have enough money to buy it will get a job or steal money so they can buy it. Or maybe they will just pirate the game. Maybe a company that sells games online for a living knows more than random dude on internet. Guess what I believe.

Heres a thought: next time you feel like posting about how the game is too expensive, dont.



TheHipGamer -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 2:19:03 AM)

I completely agree with DMan. Distant Worlds is fantastic, but it could capture a larger market share with a more approachable price point. At some level, the Matrix guys would benefit from having a business analyst model how different entry points -- be it a package offering, a discount, or a more significant sale -- would affect their overall sales numbers.

It's a shame that the response is such crap, though.



grubber788 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 2:29:44 AM)

Reading that first reply made me laugh, so thanks, jpwrunyan.

It's funny to see a group of space sim players actually managing to sound elitest. That's some spot on satire, mate. I mean, who in their right minds would try to drive away players from this great game? And to claim that someone questioning the pricing model for this niche game has no brain? Haha! Brilliant comedy!



Veloxi -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 4:43:44 AM)

Hey jpwrunyan, why you gotta be such a ****, yo? ;)



ceyan -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 5:31:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: grubber788

Reading that first reply made me laugh, so thanks, jpwrunyan.

It's funny to see a group of space sim players actually managing to sound elitest. That's some spot on satire, mate. I mean, who in their right minds would try to drive away players from this great game? And to claim that someone questioning the pricing model for this niche game has no brain? Haha! Brilliant comedy!


You think he sounds elitist but not Dman777? He's telling Matrix that they don't know their own business, or at the very least that he knows better, and his only backup is the vague assessment that it will bring in more people based on a rough estimation of a small group of people who say they'll buy it if it gets cheaper. Yeah, totally a well reasoned/supportive post and not elitist at all.

Hell, I think Matrix should lower their prices and work with other digital distributors, but I don't go around trying to defend that position with because someone said so, especially not to a well established publisher.



DMan777 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 5:50:22 AM)

The great thing about the internet is that each person can have an opinion. For instance, one might think that another's suggestion of altering the pricing structure of something as trivial as say, a video game, might be a terrible idea.

This might be true despite the intents of the suggestion which were probably to increase the sales of the game and make it more successful. The suggestion might have even been made with the full knowledge that Matrix Games has experienced, knowledgeable staff who understand the nuances of operating an internet business. The person may have even purchased the game and all the available expansions for the SINGLE-PLAYER game and have nothing personal to gain from more people enjoying the game.

On the other hand, perhaps Matrix appreciates input from their customers. Maybe they'd be interested to know that there are people interested in one of their games, but will not buy it for a particular reason. But that's just my opinion.

Basically, my original post was meant as a suggestion and at most, informative of what I've seen in my corner of the internet. How such an innocuous act can draw such ire eludes me.



ceyan -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 6:16:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DMan777

The great thing about the internet is that each person can have an opinion. For instance, one might think that another's suggestion of altering the pricing structure of something as trivial as say, a video game, might be a terrible idea.

This might be true despite the intents of the suggestion which were probably to increase the sales of the game and make it more successful. The suggestion might have even been made with the full knowledge that Matrix Games has experienced, knowledgeable staff who understand the nuances of operating an internet business. The person may have even purchased the game and all the available expansions for the SINGLE-PLAYER game and have nothing personal to gain from more people enjoying the game.

On the other hand, perhaps Matrix appreciates input from their customers. Maybe they'd be interested to know that there are people interested in one of their games, but will not buy it for a particular reason. But that's just my opinion.

Basically, my original post was meant as a suggestion and at most, informative of what I've seen in my corner of the internet. How such an innocuous act can draw such ire eludes me.


Why didn't you post in one of the other threads then instead of making a brand new one? I found at least one thread on the subject on each page back three pages of posts. You're restating an old argument that hasn't even gone beyond the first page of posts and are presenting nothing new or meaningful. If you really just wanted to lend support to the idea you could have easily used any one of the other threads or contacted Matrix directly. Instead you used a forum, which isn't even a direct form of contact, that already discusses the subject regularly with existing responses from Matrix on the subject. Either you're trolling, which I doubt, or you just don't care enough about your opinion to do any due diligence.



rbutters -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 8:00:19 AM)

For what it's worth, Dman777, I agree with you. The astronomical cost of many Matrix titles has definitely stayed my hand at some purchases I would have otherwise made. There is a big difference, psychologically, between spending $40-50 for a game, and spending $80 for a game (the cost of WitE for instance), or $90 (the cost of DW plus expansions). Buying WitP AE, also very expensive, was a difficult decision for me and that's from someone who played that game's predecessors (WitP, UV) all the way back to QQP's old title Battles in the South Pacific something like 20 years ago. And even for me, so invested in that particular theater, and that particular title, I almost did not purchase the game. I really would love to play WitE, similarly, but not at $80.

I've purchased 20 full titles and 2 expansions from Matrix. My purchasing has slowed down, dramatically, in part because I have been exposed to online publishing elsewhere. I have purchased over 200 titles from Steam, for instance, including many, many impulse purchases on sale games. Not a popular publisher to bring up here, I know, but the point is what it is. Put a cheaper price on titles and people buy them.

I'm not saying Matrix needs to adjust its pricing to meet the peculiarities of my buying habits. Perhaps they are doing just fine, doing what they're doing. More power to them, if so. I am still open to purchasing from Matrix, just not as easily as I once was in the case of the uber $ titles. If some titles were cheaper I'd almost certainly buy. And to that I say the first respondent's argument is silly... if games on Matrix were $200 each there would still be a group of people that would purchase them. But it surely would not make the best business sense.



Gareth_Bryne -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 9:01:34 AM)

You know, aside from Steam (too much said about it already), We and Matrix should spread the word to popular gaming sites, such as gamespot.com, for example. There are too few reviews, too little discussion. This forum area has above average discussion amount, compared to some other games, but we should think about everywhere else, especially because of the (IMHO) lack of PR staff for this project.



Evrett -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 1:11:04 PM)

There is nothing to tell people about. The games been out for a while, the price point hasn't gone down and there is no real information on if and when we can expect time and money being put toward this game by Matrix. Its all bad news and no one is going to want to invest in a game, and compartively at the price point it is an investment, that has no clear future.



rogerbacon51 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 3:23:01 PM)

Why are people concerned with the price here? It's a single player game so it doesn't matter how many other people out there are playing it. Obviously the developers are happy with the current price structure because they certainly have the ability to change it if they wanted to. I don't see why this is even a concern for anyone.



Cauldyth -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/26/2012 3:33:50 PM)

Do people really feel the need to attack others like this, simply for making a single post? I mean, seriously, the past couple months here have been nothing but people bitching each other out over the smallest things. Perhaps it's just pent up frustration due to the lack of info coming from the dev/publisher, I don't know. But then again, I can't blame them for not wanting to poke their heads in here. This forum has become one of the less pleasant, most depressing online places I frequent.

And as for "oh no, you've made another thread!" Seriously? Because this forum is getting bombarded with so many new posts and threads that it's difficult to keep up? Oh wait, no it's not...

Edit: This was not a reply to rogerbacon50, it just says that because his was the previous post.



Ihmemies2 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/29/2012 8:29:26 PM)

This game is too expensive. I've looked for this a couple of times but it's not available anywhere (ie. Steam). Also I couldn't find a GOTY version where everything is included for one price. Old games like this should have complete packs available for reasonable price, on a service people actually use.

When a quality game like Crusader Kings 2 with all DLC's is available for 12,50€ it is a lot easier to buy than a 4X game no one has ever heard of, no one knows where to buy one and god knows how much it costs...

If someone actually expected people to buy Distant Worlds, it should be available on major retailers like GOG.com, Steam etc. for a reasonable price like 10-20€ for whole pacakge. Otherwise maybe a few guys buy a copy each year. Good business?



Wolfe1759 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/30/2012 2:28:12 AM)

I've bought DW, ROTS and Legends as they have come out and I feel have got value for money.

However I do agree with DMan777 that the combined price (probably even the base price of DW) is a significant barrier to entry for new players.

Compare DW + expansions with Europa Universalis III + expansions as an example or DW against any other Space 4X in terms of price and there is no way (particularly without a demo to find out what you are paying for) that it appears as an attractive purchase.

Matrix are great at wargames where the market is very very limited and can to a fair extent justify high and inflexible pricing (supply and demand in effect) however the RTS / 4X market they they are competing in with DW the pricing model is totally different.

I've already spent my money and am happy with my purchase so why do I care ?

Because unless there are new buyers Matrix and Codeforce won't be making money from DW which means they won't (shouldn't) support it with further expansions. Which might also explain why there seems to be very limited recent input on the forum from Matrix or Codeforce.

Then again Matrix run a successful games business and I don't so I'm probably wrong in most or all of the above [:)]




ehsumrell1 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (6/30/2012 2:37:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

I've bought DW, ROTS and Legends as they have come out and I feel have got value for money.

However I do agree with DMan777 that the combined price (probably even the base price of DW) is a significant barrier to entry for new players.

Compare DW + expansions with Europa Universalis III + expansions as an example or DW against any other Space 4X in terms of price and there is no way (particularly without a demo to find out what you are paying for) that it appears as an attractive purchase.

Matrix are great at wargames where the market is very very limited and can to a fair extent justify high and inflexible pricing (supply and demand in effect) however RTS / 4X market they they are competing in with DW and pricing is totally different.

I've already spent my money and am happy with my purchase so why do I care ?

Because unless there are new buyers Matrix and Codeforce won't be making money from DW which means they won't (shouldn't) support it with further expansions.

Then again Matrix run a successful games business and I don't so I'm probably wrong in most or all of the above [:)]


In the DW forums Wolfe, ALL opinions are valid and may be addressed. That's what makes a good forum.

Thanks for yours! {From another satisfied DW player and forum member) [:)]



Leaddernoir -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/6/2012 6:52:02 AM)

I have to agree that the price is too steep in todays market. With that said DW really does look to be ahead of the pack in many respects feature wise and I hope the game does well and they release the next planned expansion. Hopefully they will make the tech tree and ship components moddable [:)] Unfortunately im going to have to try SoaSE Rebellion which is half the price, Trinity which is a quarter or Armada 2526 Supernova, even though I would prefer to be playing DW.



Yskonyn -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/6/2012 9:21:42 AM)

A good point is brought up here;
While we all have little problem with the price as it is while we are up to date and buy an expansion when it comes out, it surely is a huge leap (cost wise) to take if you jump in later when several expansions have released.
Almost all games out there, big titles included, drop their prices after a while or at least offer some good bundle offers to get mew players current for a fair price.
Shelling out 90 bucks in one go is too steep for many people and I can understand that perfectly fine.
The higher price on release is normal, but once it has been out for a considerable amount of time I would find it logical to offer some good deals at lower prices, especially if a new expansion is coming and you want more people to players to play your game.



DasTactic -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/6/2012 10:04:08 PM)

Before buying DW I really sat on the fence for weeks because of the cost. It was only because I read a great appraisal of the game that I decided to brave my wife's wrath (I can get away with $20 on games). After having the game, the expansions are a no-brainer and in hindsight the hours I've played have definitely been worth the large price-point. Having said that, I don't really think DW fits the usual Matrix business model and I feel the game is more 'general' than 'niche'. Matrix tends to cater for niche wargamers than the general gaming public and so it is understandable that they need to price their games accordingly. I have no problem with this at all for the other games. But DW does have wider appeal and I wonder what would have happened if the price was half what it actually is. For me I'm happy with my purchase and any speculation is really just hoping Matrix and CodeForce get maximum profit for their hard work. I also think that the gaming horizon has changed a lot over the last year or two due to Steam and other digital distribution outlets and gamers now expect games to drop in price dramatically after a few weeks. :)

If I was an astronaut going to Mars and needed to keep myself occupied for a few years, Distant Worlds would be the first game I'd take.



Haree78 -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/6/2012 10:49:16 PM)

I bought Distant Worlds some time after it's release, before any expansions were mentioned and I'm glad I did. If I was to look in to it now I would probably not buy because as a completest I doubt I would even consider paying so much for a game. It has been worth it for me in the long run buying the expansions but I would not know that before buying it.



Chiarden -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/7/2012 9:58:06 AM)

I guess this is as good a place for a first post as any other so here it goes...

I just bought the complete bundle for 82.56€ (inc. VAT and Expansion-Promo) and while that surley is alot I feel it doesnt hurt the sales as much as the fact that there is no demo.

There is no way I will ever spend more than 15-20€ on a niche game based on other peoples written statements in reviews/forums or a feature list because none of that can catch how the game feels to me (satisfaction of personal expectations).

So the lack of a demo made me pirate the base game two days ago and after about 10 hours of gameplay I was totaly hooked and my decision was made. While I am quite an honest guy that gladly and generous supports people doing a good job (like waiters and devs [;)]) others might be tempted to keep the pirated product (along with their money) and even get the expentions too since they are allready on the track.

So my suggestion would be to mass-destribute the base game with a coded gametime restriction (25 ingame years?) to get more people aware and addicted of the game while excluding the temptation of pirating.


NOTE: I do not promote pirating this or any other game. If you feel the need to pirate a game as a kind of demo make sure to not share the data any more than neccesary (once the download is finished) and set yourself a short time limit only to use it before you replace it with the legitimate thing or dismiss it. Otherways you will only hurt yourself by sabotaging the further development of the game (and its sequels) you obviously enjoy to play.




dlcooper -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/7/2012 9:40:07 PM)

Distant Worlds looks like a great game but I've read a few places that you really need both expansions. The price is definitely what's stopping me. Unfortunately, Matrix don't seem to alter their prices much and don't seem to have many sales. Also, some of their games are definitely overpriced. Just check out AI War Alien Bundle and also Armada. They are both seriously overpriced compared to Steam, Gamersgate, and the deveopers website (for AI War). AI War Alien Bundle $16.99 at all three sites and 29.99 here!!! Distant Worlds looks great but I think they would get more players if they dropped the price. $39.99 is a lot for a game that was released 2 years ago, and about $80USD for game and expansions. I know a lot of people have said that they bought it and didn't regret the money.



Yskonyn -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/8/2012 2:26:05 PM)

I don't think I agree with your statement that 39.99 for a game that is two years old is expensive, but I DO agree with your statement that $80 for the base game and its two expansions is expensive.
Would you jump in if the deal was 39.99 for the whole set up until now?



dlcooper -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/8/2012 5:34:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yskonyn

I don't think I agree with your statement that 39.99 for a game that is two years old is expensive, but I DO agree with your statement that $80 for the base game and its two expansions is expensive.
Would you jump in if the deal was 39.99 for the whole set up until now?


I think a package deal like that would be great. A lot of things I've read about DW says you basically need the expansion packs. $39.99 for a 2 year old game would be ok if the game was good but I've read several times that if you try the basic game you'll never go back to it, but with the expansions it looks great.



Cauldyth -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/8/2012 7:25:03 PM)

I really enjoyed the base game on its own merits. The expansions made a good thing even better. :)



Yskonyn -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/8/2012 7:43:17 PM)

I do see DW with its expansions as the whole game indeed.
In my view it would be fair to charge 40 bucks for the bundle instead of full price for the game and its expansions seperately.



Jon Micheelsen -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/8/2012 11:43:07 PM)

I bought all three at once an hour after reading about it somewhere in a 4x genre forum. All three packs costs just a little bit more than a brand new pretty but shallow 3d shooter. This was pretty obvious. So I never even for a second thought anything about the price and really don't see the fuss. I've played MOO2 extensively for 10 years, every now and then to get my 4x fix. I have tried just about every single other 4x genre game as well as pseudo-4x but always went back to MOO2 eventually. This fix however is now covered by the full DW combo and it will be from now on as the features where DW picks up the MOO2 legend and even exceeds MOO2 are many, and knowing DW is still being expanded upon this will only get better.

Anyone want to use this quote to promote DW is welcome. Whenever I come across someone that is into 4x DW is where I point!!

PS, I'm not wealthy at all, but like paying for quality. I would have paid more if I've had to!



HectorOfTroy -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/9/2012 1:54:58 AM)

They will probably (and will have to) lower the price once DW2 is relaeased.



Leaddernoir -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/9/2012 3:42:27 AM)

Yeah I would pay $40 for a bundle package upto legends. Once the next expansion comes out I would then be extremely more inclined to pay the standard $25 or whatever to upgrade and based on the comments in this thread I suspect others would be in the same boat. Given this is not the only 'price too high' thread and given that an expansion would only exacerbate the current price complaint making it closer to $100 for an up-to date DW experience it would seem logical to expect a bundle package. With an expansion in the works you would expect Matrix to want to expand their player base thus increasing the potential number of customers for the next expansion. That is of course unless the next expansion is standalone. Either way I'm not going to pretend to know Matrix's business better than they do so its back to Space Empires V and SoaSE until either a bundle/Price reduction or DWII. Either way im sure DW will continue to be a success [:)]



Bebop Cola -> RE: Pricing Hurting Sales? (7/9/2012 3:42:11 PM)

No offense folks, but what is it about this game that makes everyone who stops by suddenly a business and marketing guru?



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