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Need A little persuading before I buy - 7/18/2012 4:55:05 PM

TonyUk

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline

I did not buy WITE as it is too expensive and moving every single unit is a real turn off.

Mostly I play Hearts of Iron 3 and here you can click on any HQ and move all units attached as one.
How does this game compare to HOI3? I never tire of it.

Some questions:
1. Can you create your own order of battle and units? Can you attach and detach units.
2. Is air power suitably modelled, assume you can build air units and bomb cities?
3. Game looks similar to TAOW III, but the map does not look to good. Can you have a 3D map? In TAOW
you could not build your own units and had to make do with units given to you - not good.
4. Can flags be changed?
5. Pictures look a lttle cartoony, but no big deal.

Otherwise I am thinking of buying the latest expansion for Achtung Panzer Operation Star,
but not sure which way to go. With Maxtrx games the poor maps always put me off to some extent.
I cant see many reviews either.

So persuade me to buy if you can. I would eventually like to see a full Eastern Front campaign
for this game.

Post #: 1

RE: Need A little persuading before I buy - 7/18/2012 5:24:03 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

TonyUK, you must remember that Matrix aren't developers they only publish. So maps will vary game to game. I will say though that some games here have excellent maps like WITE for example. Others have split opinion like the SSG games. Also remember that you could mod the map or I'm sure someone will somewhere. Time of Fury is superb in this department. Not only doe sit come with a few different graphic designs it also have alot of mods out now aswell.This game seems to have a fairly good map though.

As for the cartoon pics, this was mentioned in the previous game. I don't mind them at all, though I don't like poor 3D units in games, I'd rather have a great looking counter (Conflict of heroes comes to mind here). I do believe someone modded the previous DC game and it will most likely happen with this one aswell.

As for the other comments I can't help as I don't own the game. HOWEVER I will say this. The last game in this series and by the looks of it this one has nothing but superb comments. I very much doubt you will regret it. Also the reviews for the previous game were nothing but excellent, and the best feedback is the players not reviewers and its always got glowing reports, just like this release is getting now. So many have said the previous game was the best operational game they have played and they are saying the same thing here aswell. If you didn't enjoy it you'd most likely be in a minority of 1 ;).As for WITE and the issues you'd have with the amount of units I think if you can deal with the amount of units in HoI you'll be fine here with this game.

One other thing if you worry about the amount of units, imagine how many units you'd be dealing with with a full war eastern front campaign. You'd have the same issue as you have with WitE. Again this game unit count looks manageable due to it being just one campaign\part of the Eastern front.

Also remember the APOS DLC will always go on sale somewhere online. DC most likely wont hit a sale until not this Xmas but the next. So I say if you have the funds get this. You can pick up the APOS DLC cheap some other time when it goes on sale for instance.

This game really does look like a winner. I am a tactical man really, however if I had the money tp spend and it was a choice between APOS DLC and this I'd go for this. It seems it has something 99% of operational game struggle with (well for me anyway), thats immersion.

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/18/2012 5:30:44 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Need A little persuading before I buy - 7/18/2012 5:47:08 PM

DBeves

Posts: 403
Joined: 7/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyUk

I did not buy WITE as it is too expensive and moving every single unit is a real turn off.

Mostly I play Hearts of Iron 3 and here you can click on any HQ and move all units attached as one.
How does this game compare to HOI3? I never tire of it.

Some questions:
1. Can you create your own order of battle and units? Can you attach and detach units.
2. Is air power suitably modelled, assume you can build air units and bomb cities?
3. Game looks similar to TAOW III, but the map does not look to good. Can you have a 3D map? In TAOW
you could not build your own units and had to make do with units given to you - not good.
4. Can flags be changed?
5. Pictures look a lttle cartoony, but no big deal.

Otherwise I am thinking of buying the latest expansion for Achtung Panzer Operation Star,
but not sure which way to go. With Maxtrx games the poor maps always put me off to some extent.
I cant see many reviews either.

So persuade me to buy if you can. I would eventually like to see a full Eastern Front campaign
for this game.

Look - its an historical hex based wargame the represents and historical eastern front campaign - most of the above you can do to some extent in the game though definitely not in the same way as HOI3. I think apart from the bland green for clear hexes all the graphics are excellent.

I would suggest from what you have said above its not your cup of tea - especially given what you said about TOAW - which is also - to a leeser extent a hex based historical wargame.

If you accept it is a hex based historical wargame and not some kind of sandbox toy like HOI 3 is then you should buy it - as in my view its the finest hex based wargame ever produced.

Also remember that WiTE is divisional in scale whereas CB is regimental - the unit counts are fairly similar for the larger scenarios and if you have an aversion to pushing around large numbers of units individually I would say avoid - as that essentially is what a hex based wargame is all about. Personally I hate HOI 3 but love this game.

< Message edited by DBeves -- 7/18/2012 5:49:23 PM >

(in reply to TonyUk)

Post #: 3

RE: Need A little persuading before I buy - 7/18/2012 6:09:06 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi TonyUk,

quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyUk
Mostly I play Hearts of Iron 3 and here you can click on any HQ and move all units attached as one.
How does this game compare to HOI3? I never tire of it.

Yes, you can move an entire group at once using the group move ability. It will take all the units of a division and move them to the same place.

quote:

1. Can you create your own order of battle and units? Can you attach and detach units.

Yes. Within the game, you can modify your order of battle and move units around and create new units. There is also the editor, with which you can practically make your own new game.

quote:

2. Is air power suitably modelled, assume you can build air units and bomb cities?

Air power is well modeled.

quote:

3. Game looks similar to TAOW III, but the map does not look to good. Can you have a 3D map? In TAOW
you could not build your own units and had to make do with units given to you - not good.

There is no 3D map. The map graphics are easily moddable if you do not like the current look.

quote:

4. Can flags be changed?

Pretty much all graphics are moddable.

quote:

5. Pictures look a lttle cartoony, but no big deal.

It's a board game style of art, done by an award-winning board game artist. With that said, if you don't like them, they are also moddable.

quote:

Otherwise I am thinking of buying the latest expansion for Achtung Panzer Operation Star,
but not sure which way to go. With Maxtrx games the poor maps always put me off to some extent.
I cant see many reviews either.

Well, we are both a publisher and a developer, but map styles vary by game and by artist. We always try to get the best possible results for the game system, but for something like Hearts of Iron or Total War you need a fully 3D game. Comparing those games to ours is definitely apples to oranges in terms of development budget. Is there an example among our games or other computer games of what you would consider a good operational map? I'm guessing you are not a fan of the tile-based approach, which allows for much more flexibility (as in TOAW III and Decisive Campaigns). Do you like the hand drawn map in War in the East?

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to TonyUk)

Post #: 4

RE: Need A little persuading before I buy - 7/18/2012 6:55:44 PM

TonyUk

Posts: 18
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi TonyUk,

quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyUk
Mostly I play Hearts of Iron 3 and here you can click on any HQ and move all units attached as one.
How does this game compare to HOI3? I never tire of it.

Yes, you can move an entire group at once using the group move ability. It will take all the units of a division and move them to the same place.

quote:

1. Can you create your own order of battle and units? Can you attach and detach units.

Yes. Within the game, you can modify your order of battle and move units around and create new units. There is also the editor, with which you can practically make your own new game.

quote:

2. Is air power suitably modelled, assume you can build air units and bomb cities?

Air power is well modeled.

quote:

3. Game looks similar to TAOW III, but the map does not look to good. Can you have a 3D map? In TAOW
you could not build your own units and had to make do with units given to you - not good.

There is no 3D map. The map graphics are easily moddable if you do not like the current look.

quote:

4. Can flags be changed?

Pretty much all graphics are moddable.

quote:

5. Pictures look a lttle cartoony, but no big deal.

It's a board game style of art, done by an award-winning board game artist. With that said, if you don't like them, they are also moddable.

quote:

Otherwise I am thinking of buying the latest expansion for Achtung Panzer Operation Star,
but not sure which way to go. With Maxtrx games the poor maps always put me off to some extent.
I cant see many reviews either.

Well, we are both a publisher and a developer, but map styles vary by game and by artist. We always try to get the best possible results for the game system, but for something like Hearts of Iron or Total War you need a fully 3D game. Comparing those games to ours is definitely apples to oranges in terms of development budget. Is there an example among our games or other computer games of what you would consider a good operational map? I'm guessing you are not a fan of the tile-based approach, which allows for much more flexibility (as in TOAW III and Decisive Campaigns). Do you like the hand drawn map in War in the East?

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks Erik, still not sure though. Yes, I do think the WITE map looks much better

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 5

RE: Need A little persuading before I buy - 7/19/2012 1:59:41 AM

Rosseau

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline

Sorry I didn't link this direct, but here is a good synoposis from Mickee II of Paris, France on this forum:

"I have just bought the game yesterday and made 4 turns as German in the scenario Uranus against AI.
In Uranus scenario you immediately understand how desperate is the German situation. The last unit of ersatz arriving as reinforcement becomes suddenly very important to hold a town in the middle of the steppe and try to delay the advance of the soviet cavalry and tanks. The OOB is very well represented with for example the 22eme panzer which has no tank because historically mice eaten the electric system of all tanks of this division.
I have been deeply impressed by the quality of the game which is ranking probably number one among the simulations covering this period.
All details in this game have been adjusted to make a top simulation.
-big map but good scale for the time (2 days/turn), for the size of units (regiment level) giving enough units but not thousands of them. Playing a turn does not take forever.
-very simple logistic rules with no intervention of the player.
What is the most impressive is the ability of the designers to have create all the conditions to simulate a movement war.
I know 2 others simulations covering this period where the game turns quickly in a trench war.
Mixing of tactical and strategic considerations is also a "must". Play cards attached to the HQ needs careful planning and anticipation: is it better to encourage a unit to build a hedgehog defense or to spend a another card to sustain a counterattack ? Simulation of the aerial war is simple enough but is very realistic with interception of raid by enemy fighters and destruction of tanks or guns by the bombers.
In brief a good compromise between playability , realism and complexity of the situation."

(in reply to TonyUk)

Post #: 6

More to know - 7/21/2012 1:14:27 PM

Templer_12

Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

I am also on the fence.
Undecided for purchase.

- Can you always see the results of retrospective of your own last fights?
- Are there any losses and damage caused by weather and other circumstances?
- Are there Blizzards?
- Are there any damaged material with repair?
- How authentic are the values/datas of the material (Tanks, airplanes, weapons...)?
- How is the impact of the SS?
- How acurately are the the maps?
- Is there a detailed status reports of regiments and divisions?
- How high is the demand of the game to the player (is it more Beer & Pretzels? Or really challenging?)?

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Post #: 7

RE: More to know - 7/21/2012 2:48:17 PM

BodyBag

Posts: 80
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Jeez, it's a game, not a new house!

Just don't buy it then...

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Post #: 8

RE: More to know - 7/21/2012 3:11:29 PM

Templer_12

Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BodyBag

Jeez, it's a game, not a new house!

Just don't buy it then...

I apologize for abusing this forum as a source of information.
I in the future I will approve questions before by you.

_____________________________

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Post #: 9

RE: More to know - 7/21/2012 4:32:47 PM

sol_invictus

Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

I certainly don't consider it beer and pretzels. I guess moderate to slightly difficult. The actual gameplay is rather easy but you must take several factors into consideration when you give orders. it is easy to overlook something that can have a large impact on a battle if you are sleepwalking through a turn.

The SS and Guard units are modelled with Morale bonuses.

Weather can affect Air Missions.

Units are damaged by Readiness reductions and take time/Replacements to repair.

There is detailed info on Units and Equipment.

There are detailed Status reports for Battles and Units. Readiness, Morale, Experience, Integrity, Leadership, and Supply are tracked for units. Fuel for Armor/motorized and ammo Stockpiles for Artillery is tracked and when they run low it has a large impact on combat effectiveness.

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Post #: 10

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns Series >> Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue >> Need A little persuading before I buy

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