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Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/13/2012 8:10:51 PM   
cverbrug


Posts: 233
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		Apart from extneding the range of escort or sweep for fighters, are there advantage for drop tanks for CAP.

E.g. for CAP on the home base, if you equip your fighters with drop tanks, does it means they can stay longer 'airborne' (without a need for refuelling) and that hence you have a higher number of fighter constantly in the air? or is there no effect on this?

Additionall, are there any disadvantages?

Is you have an escort mission with drop tanks, is there a negaitve effect on the fighting cababnilites in AA or in AA weapons for the fighter if he is using drop tanks? or again, no bad effect whatsover on using drp tanks?

Gallo
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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/13/2012 8:41:51 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Just a noob 2 cents: I think in the CAP situation they will just fatigue faster. CAP only have a percentage of the player selected percentage "airborn" at any one time. Radar/Early warning will get more fighters in the air for CAP faster. I am unsure about offensive missions, I believe they just fatigue faster also due to the flight time/distance covered. I do not believe there to be any ill effects on offensive missions as fighters are assumed to have "dropped tanks" when they encounter the enemy.

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/14/2012 12:03:44 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		The only thing I can think of that would be of benefit for CAP w/ DT, would be in bleed over to another hex for cap. Say you have base A & base B 2 hexes away & the a/c has a normal range of 1 but 2 w/ DT, it might be able to bleed over into B to help CAP that base w/ DT on. Otherwise I don't think it'd have any more effect on it's base.

As to disadvantages, I've always wondered if there's some kind of manuever rating cost to having DT when in A-A combat even though the tanks would have been dropped before combat.

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Post #: 3
RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/14/2012 9:10:28 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		I'm not a pilot, so this may sound dumb but, it is my understanding that a "belly tank" for extra gas is used up first and at some point the plane is toting around an extra tank. The tank is NOT automatically jettisoned as it is relatively expensive and it doesn't grow on trees (wood makes a very poor container for gas). Also it makes sense that the squadron supply officer would like them back. However if a fighter is about to be engaged, dry or not, pilots will jettison the tank (and ordinance if any) in favor of increased mobility. So their range most likely stays the same, as this gas is used first and the plane is usually on internal tanks once combat is joined. Do I have this right? Some of you airdales might correct me if I'm wrong. Hal

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/14/2012 9:45:17 PM   
geofflambert


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Status: offline 		Shouldn't pilots have honed their ground attack skills attempting to drop their "drop tanks" on the Quartermaster?

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/14/2012 9:56:52 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Shouldn't pilots have honed their ground attack skills attempting to drop their "drop tanks" on the Quartermaster?

Here I am trying to have a serious discourse and I get blindsided by a Star Trek monster. As Spock said to Kirk, "It's life Jim, but not as we know it!"

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/14/2012 9:57:19 PM   
Commander Stormwolf

 

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always thought there was a built in mvr penalty for drop tank equipped fighters (might be wrong)


real problem is the ranges are a bit wrong (example lightning gets more than double its range with drop tanks)

guess it's based on the example of some P-38 pilots fighting with drop tanks attached (McGuire for example)


logically the maximum possible range a fighter is supposed to have is 2x(range on internal fuel)

since plane with drop tank attached will use up more fuel per the same distance (drop tank's extra weight and drag)

plane without a drop tank attached will use less fuel, but needs more fuel to actually spend time over the target

*example Ki-43 oscar carries 400L internal fuel giving it 6 hexes range, and 2x200L external giving 12 hexes

put 2x330L drop tanks on the Ki-43, and you wont get any more range out of it..




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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 12:30:09 AM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I'm not a pilot, so this may sound dumb but, it is my understanding that a "belly tank" for extra gas is used up first and at some point the plane is toting around an extra tank. The tank is NOT automatically jettisoned as it is relatively expensive and it doesn't grow on trees (wood makes a very poor container for gas). Also it makes sense that the squadron supply officer would like them back. However if a fighter is about to be engaged, dry or not, pilots will jettison the tank (and ordinance if any) in favor of increased mobility. So their range most likely stays the same, as this gas is used first and the plane is usually on internal tanks once combat is joined. Do I have this right? Some of you airdales might correct me if I'm wrong. Hal


In ww2 drop tanks were frequently made out paper. I'd imagine today they could be made of celluloid. As drop tanks were lined with rubber or some form of plastic, you probably could make them out of wood.

But essentially you are correct. Some later planes with "tip tanks" like the F-104,T-33,and F-80 flew with their drop tanks on all the time. (Unless combat required dropping them).

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Post #: 8
RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 3:58:57 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		Here's a pretty good history on DT Drop Tanks

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 12:50:21 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Here's a pretty good history on DT Drop Tanks

Good find! Interestingly the info doesn't mention what the tanks were made of! I was interested in seeing how "paper" drop takes were incorporated. Steve, where did you find that information? Hal

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 5:05:34 PM   
Lomri

 

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I haven't used drop tanks on CAP because I assumed it would increase intercept time. Extra weight, slower climb. I have no data to back this up.

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 5:14:52 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Here's a pretty good history on DT Drop Tanks

Good find! Interestingly the info doesn't mention what the tanks were made of! I was interested in seeing how "paper" drop takes were incorporated. Steve, where did you find that information? Hal


I'd read about it years ago, then on another occassion interviewed a couple of pilots who talked about having used them. I just dis a Yahoo search and found a bunch of stuff on paper drop tanks. BTW, they were painted with a "silverized" paint , so you've probably looked at them on photo's and didn't know it! And supposedly there were some tanks made of wood! Let me know if you have trouble finding it. Just search "paper drop tanks". Here's a good source http://www.bellytanks.com/?p=199

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 8/15/2012 5:41:09 PM >

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 6:12:41 PM   
Sardaukar


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From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Using drop tanks use extra supply in land bases.

No idea of effect on CV planes.

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 6:52:40 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
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From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		Ok, thanks Steve... live and learn!!!

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Post #: 14
RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 6:53:42 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri


I haven't used drop tanks on CAP because I assumed it would increase intercept time. Extra weight, slower climb. I have no data to back this up.

In the real world you are correct, but I doubt this level of detail is covered by the game mechanics.... Hal

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 7:12:04 PM   
offenseman


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From: Sheridan Wyoming, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Using drop tanks use extra supply in land bases.

No idea of effect on CV planes.


IIRC Using DTs on CV a/c uses more sorties from the sorties available

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 7:58:35 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		I've been using drop tanks on ALL my fighter units set to CAP thinking that the drop tanks will increase the time aloft, thereby reducing the number of rotations of planes, thereby reducing the likelihood of getting caught with my pants down (no, or relatively few, fighters in the air). I don't know if this logic works, but since I've been doing this, I've noticed what seems to be an improved effectiveness of my CAP - pretty much no instances of raids sneaking through 50+% CAP with no intercept and just a higher number of planes engaging the enemy.

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Post #: 17
RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 9:40:03 PM   
moonraker65


Posts: 556
Joined: 7/14/2004
From: Swindon,Wilts. UK
Status: offline 		I find them useful for moving Fighters quickly to a new base once unloaded from Ships. Instead of the 1 or 2 day delay of sending them by rail (particularly in the CBI theatre) you can just add drop tanks and fly them in

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 10:57:57 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Not sure what the effect of using drop tanks on a CV are. I should check on that.

Using drop tanks at a base cost extra supply. Otherwise, I see no disadvantage or benefit to drop tanks other than increased range. You do not need drop tanks on CAP as I don't think they have any effect or give any bonus.



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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/15/2012 11:13:28 PM   
zuluhour


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Status: offline 		GO O's!!

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/16/2012 1:40:09 AM   
treespider


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From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Per the manual p161 - Drop Tanks may be fitted at Clean Ranges to extend loiter time, but the cost of doing so remains.

Later on p161 - Any aircraft operating with Drop Tanks is assumed to be expending supply at twice (x2) the rate that it would if flying Clean ranges. (not sure if CV fighters with DT flying Escort expend x2 sorties though)



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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/16/2012 12:07:57 PM   
Icedawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Per the manual p161 - Drop Tanks may be fitted at Clean Ranges to extend loiter time, but the cost of doing so remains.

Later on p161 - Any aircraft operating with Drop Tanks is assumed to be expending supply at twice (x2) the rate that it would if flying Clean ranges. (not sure if CV fighters with DT flying Escort expend x2 sorties though)




This might explain why I seem to be getting better performance from CAP now that I've been having them use drop tanks.

By the way, what is "clean range"?

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Post #: 22
RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/16/2012 1:37:44 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Per the manual p161 - Drop Tanks may be fitted at Clean Ranges to extend loiter time, but the cost of doing so remains.

Later on p161 - Any aircraft operating with Drop Tanks is assumed to be expending supply at twice (x2) the rate that it would if flying Clean ranges. (not sure if CV fighters with DT flying Escort expend x2 sorties though)




This might explain why I seem to be getting better performance from CAP now that I've been having them use drop tanks.

By the way, what is "clean range"?


"Clean range", is the range that the airplane has when it is in a totally "clean" configuration. (No wing or drop tanks,bombs , rockets or anything else cluttering up the wing. That is no excess drag except what the airplane it'self produces).

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/16/2012 2:08:18 PM   
goran007

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Per the manual p161 - Drop Tanks may be fitted at Clean Ranges to extend loiter time, but the cost of doing so remains.

Later on p161 - Any aircraft operating with Drop Tanks is assumed to be expending supply at twice (x2) the rate that it would if flying Clean ranges. (not sure if CV fighters with DT flying Escort expend x2 sorties though)




This might explain why I seem to be getting better performance from CAP now that I've been having them use drop tanks.

By the way, what is "clean range"?


I remember from some time back there was a discussion about drop tanks. I also believe few stated that there was some negative impact on maneuverability of the plane if you had planes equip it. It made no sense to me because pilots would drop them at first sign of enemy aircraft, but i always try to engage without them.

If i remember correctly positive thing is LR CAP. It will have more planes engaging enemy aircraft because of formula that takes in effect range to target LRCAP and range of aircraft, so if you had equipped tanks range of aircraft is greater and there will be less of diminishing effect or more planes will be over target.

need info of someone who tested it...

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RE: Question on advantages of Drop Tanks for Fighters - 8/16/2012 2:47:02 PM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goran007
If i remember correctly positive thing is LR CAP. It will have more planes engaging enemy aircraft because of formula that takes in effect range to target LRCAP and range of aircraft, so if you had equipped tanks range of aircraft is greater and there will be less of diminishing effect or more planes will be over target.

need info of someone who tested it...


Range in general affects # of planes available on LRCAP over target, independent of whether its through the use of drop tanks or simply because the airframe has greater range.
The other corresponding modifier is the distance between base of origin and LRCAP target.

PS: drop tanks do not change any performance values - as has been previousely pointed out - but longer air time generates more fatigue, which needs to be taken into account.
It uses double supply per mission, but it does not use up more CV sorties.


< Message edited by LoBaron -- 8/16/2012 2:49:47 PM >

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