RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix

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RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 12:58:08 AM

Farfarer61

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Joined: 7/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnyvagas

my pet peeve is people who feel the need to say "pet peeve".

My pet peeve escaped the house last month and now I have peeve kittens.

(in reply to johnnyvagas)

Post #: 91

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 1:45:22 AM

danlongman

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline

The world is divided into two kinds of people.
Those who divide everything into two categories and those who do not.

_____________________________

"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to Farfarer61)

Post #: 92

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 2:00:14 AM

turtlefang

Posts: 334
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

I've played wargames (including Fire in the East) for more than 40 years. I've gone from the time of complete knowledge and understanding to what will happen (factor countering to that magical 3 to 1) to the hidden unit values that flip in the SPI games to the early computer games when you literally didn't have clue to what would happen.

In many, if not most, computer games, the random events in the combat table (or combat factors) are really just guessimates by the players.

So I'm having a problem with the whole CV value issue. As long as the game provides relatively consistent results that seem close to historical norms (some extremes are needed to add uncertainity), then its fine. After that, its just a matter of getting use to the numbers to get close to an expectation.

I actually don't use the CV values at all or very very little. I try to get a feel for the number of men, approximate arms (tanks, artillery) and other factors (how well supplied I expect everyone to be, fort level). And then make my attacks. I just haven't found them that valuable EXCEPT for giving me an idea of how strong a unit is - for the Soviets, a division with a CV 1 is weak, 2 regular, 3 strong and greater than 3 is very strong. And I'm used to seeing them and would like to continue to see them.

I like this game - a lot, and its taking up a large part of my spare time. And while I'm new to the game, the CV value seems relatively minor compared to some other issues (like the air combat system).

I understand the frustration over the potential CV error, but have a hard time getting that worked up over it. Anyone buying this game isn't a going to play this for a couple of hours, but will invest a lot of time in it. Or no time at all.

(in reply to Toidi)

Post #: 93

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 2:06:04 AM

kg_1007

Posts: 230
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

I think the issue here though was that the CV shown after battle, actually ARE after battle, and therefore cannot be compared to the values shown before the battle..that is not misleading, but rather after the results of the battle, unless I misunderstand it.

(in reply to turtlefang)

Post #: 94

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 2:34:41 AM

elmo3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

The world is divided into two kinds of people.
Those who divide everything into two categories and those who do not.

The world is divided into 10 kinds of people.
Those who understand base 2 and those who don't.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to danlongman)

Post #: 95

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 3:08:03 AM

Oloren

Posts: 51
Joined: 3/24/2007
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While I much prefer combat resolution systems in which more info is available to the player (Korsun Pocket and that Matrix series are great examples), I understand the design decision, but it is difficult as a player to begin to get a good idea on what will happen in any given combat. I prefer combat values which are not generated at combat, but where the combat results are randomized off of an Odds chart. Such a system still alows modifications for terrain, morale, fatigue etc., and for me, is easier to understand. It's certainly not less 'realistic' than the WiTE way of handling combat resolution, just different. For me, I'd prefer to lose after making my combat decision on an odds chart and cursing the digital die for rolling a one. Something about the 'man behind the curtain' system where most (all) of the intermediate resolutions are a complete unknown is tough to deal with. Note that both methods can easily account for a wide variety of results and be as unpredictable as the designer wants.

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 96

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 3:39:08 AM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

I agree that WitE's combat system is not more realistic than a simple CRT, just more complicated. And I think it produces unrealistic results in situations such as attacks on fortified locations and cities (as well as a general bias towards the attack).

< Message edited by 76mm -- 8/15/2012 8:00:21 AM >

(in reply to Oloren)

Post #: 97

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 6:56:39 AM

Aurelian

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I like the system. Better it than spending all that time looking for those 3-1 odds.

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If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 98

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 12:45:38 PM

carlkay58

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline

There are definite problems with the combat system - just try having the Axis attack an NKVD border regiment in June or July 41.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 99

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 1:04:13 PM

TJD

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Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

The world is divided into 10 kinds of people.
Those who understand base 2 and those who don't.

Now that's brilliant. I love it. :)

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 100

RE: Displayed CV is way off the real one: please fix - 8/15/2012 7:04:07 PM

morganbj

Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

The world is divided into two kinds of people.
Those who divide everything into two categories and those who do not.

The world is divided into 10 kinds of people.
Those who understand base 2 and those who don't.

_____________________________

Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 101