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Bridges - 8/24/2012 4:51:12 AM   
helm123456789

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline 		Tell Me about bridges and their impact on movement. Can bridges be blown and are large rivers only passable over bridges?

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RE: Bridges - 8/24/2012 5:34:11 AM   
LiquidSky


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Bridges are an ancient invention used for people to cross deep indentations, gullies, rivers and other obstacles. They can be made of wood, stone, or in more modern times..steel. Their impact on movement is quite pronounced as it allows you to go from one side.....to the other...


Bridges can be blown, either by aircraft, or by artillery.

Large rivers are passable by aircraft, artillery shells, and any unit that doesnt mind getting a little wet. Their trucks carrying supply are afraid of the water, though.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to helm123456789)
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RE: Bridges - 8/24/2012 5:46:59 AM   
Keunert


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Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		lol

Engineers are the best units for blowing and repairing bridges. crossing a river without a bridge costs more Action Points. you also have to think about crossing a river without a bridge in terms of supply: there's a supply shortage to be expected and this could really hurt if you expect your ennemy to counterattack next turn.

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Post #: 3
RE: Bridges - 8/24/2012 6:33:58 AM   
rominet


Posts: 523
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline 		It doesn't seem very easy to blow a bridge with aircraft or artillery.
I just see it once on Kharkov scenario where i concentrate all my german air units on the same target.
I have watched an AAR (i don't remenber who's) where the german player was blowing russian bridges very easily. I wonder how he was performing it.
And i never saw a bridge blowed by artillery only.

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RE: Bridges - 8/24/2012 7:23:05 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet

It doesn't seem very easy to blow a bridge with aircraft or artillery.
I just see it once on Kharkov scenario where i concentrate all my german air units on the same target.
I have watched an AAR (i don't remenber who's) where the german player was blowing russian bridges very easily. I wonder how he was performing it.
And i never saw a bridge blowed by artillery only.


We probably me...and it was not easy but it was mostly luck. I got 5 but i missed 3. The more PP you throw at a bridge the greater the chance it will blow.

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RE: Bridges - 8/25/2012 10:26:28 PM   
helm123456789

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Bridges are an ancient invention used for people to cross deep indentations, gullies, rivers and other obstacles. They can be made of wood, stone, or in more modern times..steel. Their impact on movement is quite pronounced as it allows you to go from one side.....to the other...


Bridges can be blown, either by aircraft, or by artillery.

Large rivers are passable by aircraft, artillery shells, and any unit that doesnt mind getting a little wet. Their trucks carrying supply are afraid of the water, though.


Should have expected I'd get the funny guy to reply first.

So taking down the bridges won't stop the enemy from falling back when trapped on the wrong side or an advance coming across the river. I'm assuming the increase in points to cross is just an abstract of pontoon bridges, boats and fording. Was hoping to hear that some rivers are considered passable only via bridges or pontoon operations that take time like bridge repair at least for heavy units. So the primary effects of a down bridge are increased fording cost of the river and limited supplies?

Thanks

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Post #: 6
RE: Bridges - 8/25/2012 10:35:17 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		yes thats right and the AP cross is also depending on the river type and unit type. armor will not cross certain rivers without a bridge or only if lots of AP are at hand.

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Post #: 7
RE: Bridges - 8/25/2012 11:24:26 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		The hard part is trying to find an Engineer Unit when you want one!!!

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Tony

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RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 1:36:13 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		In fact, there should be many more Engineer units in the game, even if we only confine ourselves to Independent Engineer units of Battalion level and above ... and if we add in Independent Engineer units that are not specifically Bridge Engineers, there should be even more.

The OOB and TO&E I am working on in conjunction with Ritterkrieg will have more.

"Real soon now" as they say in the software industry!

Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
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Post #: 9
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 4:08:23 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3650
Joined: 12/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: helm123456789


quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Bridges are an ancient invention used for people to cross deep indentations, gullies, rivers and other obstacles. They can be made of wood, stone, or in more modern times..steel. Their impact on movement is quite pronounced as it allows you to go from one side.....to the other...


Bridges can be blown, either by aircraft, or by artillery.

Large rivers are passable by aircraft, artillery shells, and any unit that doesnt mind getting a little wet. Their trucks carrying supply are afraid of the water, though.


Should have expected I'd get the funny guy to reply first.

So taking down the bridges won't stop the enemy from falling back when trapped on the wrong side or an advance coming across the river. I'm assuming the increase in points to cross is just an abstract of pontoon bridges, boats and fording. Was hoping to hear that some rivers are considered passable only via bridges or pontoon operations that take time like bridge repair at least for heavy units. So the primary effects of a down bridge are increased fording cost of the river and limited supplies?

Thanks



It's one rulevar you would mod in the editor if you wanted to simulate the ability to only cross a river with no heavy equipment. Then bridges become much more vital :)

_____________________________

-Alpha Tester Carrier Force
-Beta Tester ATG
- Mod Maintainer (past) for ATG's WAW mod
- Mod Maintainer (past) for ATG's GPW mod
-Beta Tester WITE
-Alpha Tester WITW
-Alpha Tester WITE2
-Alpha Tester Wif
-Beta Tester Command

(in reply to helm123456789)
Post #: 10
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 9:55:04 AM   
Redmarkus5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Bridges are an ancient invention used for people to cross deep indentations, gullies, rivers and other obstacles. They can be made of wood, stone, or in more modern times..steel. Their impact on movement is quite pronounced as it allows you to go from one side.....to the other...


Bridges can be blown, either by aircraft, or by artillery.

Large rivers are passable by aircraft, artillery shells, and any unit that doesnt mind getting a little wet. Their trucks carrying supply are afraid of the water, though.


A Bridge is also a technique used in dentistry, I believe, by which adjacent healthy teeth are employed to support a weaker tooth. Something along those lines. Unless you are Konstantin Rokossovsky, in which case it's too late for a dentist's bridge and the river-crossing bridge is the only one of relevance.

_____________________________

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Post #: 11
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 2:45:27 PM   
Keunert


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Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		you just made me google Konstantin Rokossovsky, great story. what a sick place the Sovietunion was under Stalin

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Post #: 12
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 5:11:47 PM   
Redmarkus5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

you just made me google Konstantin Rokossovsky, great story. what a sick place the Sovietunion was under Stalin


Did it tell you what Stalin said to him when he was brought back from 'Siberia' to take command of a Front in the emergency of 1941? "Rokossovsky, where have you been? And what happened to your teeth?" Funny guy that Stalin.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 13
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 5:17:50 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		A Groucho Marx type this Stalin, but with black humor?

It said nothing about that, but it did tell how he insisted to make a pincer attack in Operation Bagration three times against Stalin's proposal. I never read something similiar about a german general and this guy did it even though he knew what could happen... chapeau!

< Message edited by Keunert -- 8/26/2012 5:22:58 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 6:38:11 PM   
Kipper


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

you just made me google Konstantin Rokossovsky, great story. what a sick place the Sovietunion was under Stalin


Did it tell you what Stalin said to him when he was brought back from 'Siberia' to take command of a Front in the emergency of 1941? "Rokossovsky, where have you been? And what happened to your teeth?" Funny guy that Stalin.


Not sure about that quote but I have seen in a number of books that Stalin said, on seeing him after his release after at a meeting, "Where have you been?"

"In prison."

"You picked a fine time to be sitting around in prison."

A chilling guy to be around.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 15
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 7:16:16 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keunert

A Groucho Marx type this Stalin, but with black humor?

It said nothing about that, but it did tell how he insisted to make a pincer attack in Operation Bagration three times against Stalin's proposal. I never read something similiar about a german general and this guy did it even though he knew what could happen... chapeau!


Stalin did take advice and even direct refusals from Generals he respected. Once he had removed those he considered incompetent, many of the leading Soviet commanders stayed in their posts for the duration of the war. The turnover rate in the Wehrmacht was probably much higher at the most senior levels.

Having said that, being fired by the STAVKA probably meant a death sentence more frequently than was the case for German senior commanders. Most of the latter survived, or so my reading would suggest.

_____________________________

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Post #: 16
RE: Bridges - 8/26/2012 7:54:37 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		i read the great novel 'Life&Destiny' by the russian army journalist and chemist Wassili Grossman. he describes life during war and Stalin from different perspectives (civilians, academics, soldiers...) and one thing that really struck me was Stalins unpredictable terror. The 3rd Reich was a lot more predictable and i guess if you weren't part of a race or minority that the Führer chose to annihilate and if you were able to shut up life was pretty safe. this was not the case in the Soviet Union, everybody was a possible candidate for interrogation and prison.

As far as i know only very few german generals died because of the regime: most of them were connected or it was believed they were with the attempted killing of Hitler. Rommel is an exception.

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Post #: 17
RE: Bridges - 8/27/2012 5:39:55 AM   
LiquidSky


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I watched a movie about Stalin, and during the first week of Barbarossa, he was berating STAVKA telling them to attack the Germans everywhere to drive them into Poland when one of the Marshals gets mad and yells at Stalin, saying how it is all his fault, for trusting the Germans.....after which Stalin goes into a deep funk for a week. When they cautiously open the door to see if he is okay, Stalin looks up at the Marshal and says: Why havent you been shot? The Marshall replies that nobody wanted to give the order without Stalin's approval.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 18
RE: Bridges - 8/27/2012 5:57:40 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
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Status: offline 		In the Documentary "Russia's War: Blood on the Snow" they interviewed a guard from Stalin's Dacha who, so it seems, told a similar story ... Stalin had retreated there in a blue funk and when, finally, a bunch of Officers rolled up in a Staff Car to beg him to come back to STAVKA, well, he muttered something about being worried they'd come to shoot *him*.

And, of course, when he suffered his fatal stroke, the guards at the Kremlin were afraid to call the Doctors to look at him, laying on a couch, drooling, evidently, because, if they were wrong, well ... Siberia beckons ... as it was, by the time medical treatment was called the next morning, it was too late to do anything (and probably would have been anyway) ... reps like Stalin's can be a two edged sword



Phil

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 19
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