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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back?

 
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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/28/2012 4:45:04 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		witpqs - thanks for the exact info. I was in the ball park, but maybe a little off the playing field. I did a quick 'copy & paste' followed by a print out.

Clarification - when its says, "per turn," does that mean per day or for each of the unloading phases in a turn??

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/28/2012 4:58:00 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

witpqs - thanks for the exact info. I was in the ball park, but maybe a little off the playing field. I did a quick 'copy & paste' followed by a print out.

Clarification - when its says, "per turn," does that mean per day or for each of the unloading phases in a turn??

Good question! That was later clarified/corrected - it means per phase, of which there are two per day. I avoid using the term "turn" only because some people do two day-turns.

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Post #: 92
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/30/2012 7:17:35 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thats is great info witpqs! Thank you

Not much to update. We are only a week from "Hellcat month"... can´t wait!

Subwar
I finally got some good news to report from the submarine war though. See screen. Perhaps, perhaps the Junyo is done for. Its listed on the sunk list but no score added...

Elsewhere the submarine war is NOT going as I wished for. He is using very heavy escorted convoys packed with PBs that seem to act as TT magnets. My subs usually get a shot off at the PB/DDs, misses/duds and then survives the DCing but have to RTB for repairs. I think I´m getting about a ship per week. Thats it. Not good enough.

Sopac
Building up Koumac and Nomuea. Transfering engineers and troops preparing for the invasion of Efate. Its empty so I don´t expect much trouble. It will be built up to max and make a nice cozy 4E hive to blast Luganville and Ndeni until Erik tires of it and leaves. Then its rinse and repeat until 46 is up...

Aircraft pools
4E pools are growing quickly now that I get 48 per month! Fighterpools are still crap. DB pools are completely empty.

Just released about 300 army pilots to the pool. I now have 1800 army pilots with an average EXP of 60. Navy pool is not looking anywhere near as good.

Oh, and I ambushed some Betties doing milking runs. Oh how the escort mission is borked. My pilots where just out of flightschool. 50/70/60. Eriks where "far from green".

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 16
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 25



Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 11
P-40K Warhawk x 22


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 9 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 6 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 16
G4M1 Betty x 15



Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 7
P-40K Warhawk x 15


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 2 destroyed

As soon as you put a fighter on Escort it turns into a Nate. If this is how it was in the war the Allies would still try to bomb Berlin...

Anyway, here is the good news! What do you think? Is she done for?






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Post #: 93
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/30/2012 2:36:46 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Just did the following turn. Nothing picked up at Ndeni and his Carries withdrew. If he had Junyo disbanded there I´m sure he would have left the KB there for cover. Nothing picked up by subs or Catalinas. His carriers just vanished so probably left at good speed.

So one of two things happened:
1. She sank like a rock.
2. Some damage that didn´t effect much.

I´m thinking number 2 is more likely since no "heavy fires" or "heavy damage" was listed. I´m going to assume she is still afloat but will require some time at the yards next to Ryujo.

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/30/2012 6:00:45 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Just did the following turn. Nothing picked up at Ndeni and his Carries withdrew. If he had Junyo disbanded there I´m sure he would have left the KB there for cover. Nothing picked up by subs or Catalinas. His carriers just vanished so probably left at good speed.

So one of two things happened:
1. She sank like a rock.
2. Some damage that didn´t effect much.

I´m thinking number 2 is more likely since no "heavy fires" or "heavy damage" was listed. I´m going to assume she is still afloat but will require some time at the yards next to Ryujo.

I think it was witpqs who said he calculates a "fuel storage explosion" did damage equivalent to two bomb hits. Having said that, there will definitely be fires and each time there is a "Ships perform damage control" phase [about 3 times a day], there is a chance that the ship will fail the roll and fires will go up. The higher they go, the more chance of failure on the next roll.
The signal I would watch for is the "aircraft lost on the ground". When you see the equivalent of a carrier's worth of fighters, DBs and TBs, you have your confirmation. Unfortunately, if the ship has initial damage under 50% it could fly off the squadrons to a friendly base.

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/30/2012 10:23:33 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Wasn't me, but it's better than any of my guesses.

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Post #: 96
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/31/2012 1:14:14 AM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		You can never be sure. A fuel explosion can easily lead to fires and with the abysmal damage control of the IJN, that could doom her. Also, this was a sub attack at night. If the CV was heavily damaged it would be transferred to an escort TF with 1 DD for company and sent back to the nearest large port. It might have headed for Raboul or something.

< Message edited by Dan Nichols -- 8/31/2012 1:15:51 AM >

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Post #: 97
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/31/2012 8:54:41 AM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I won´t totally give up hope she might still sink if fires started raging. But I will assume she will be back in 2-3 months and anything else will be a added bonus.

Nothing happened last turn. But I´m starting to get a pleasant problem. I have so many convoys everywhere I´m starting to loose track of them. I needed fuel for Nomuea and started gathering up a convoy from Oz to send there when I "found" a Tanker TF with 150.000 tonnes of fuel in Melbourne. I had forgotten about it! Quite embarrassing!

So I started going through all my TFs and found another 120K supply convoy forgotten at Malden Island... I better start taking notes!

I quickly summed up my total tonnage of fuel and supply and right this minute I have almost 800K worth of fuel and supply on map in convoys!. That is not including the empty convoys! I have roughly 140 empty ships in convoys and on map RTB. Thats pretty much I think!

I wonder how much the Jap side have in terms of lifting capacity at this time of the war.

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Post #: 98
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 8/31/2012 2:28:38 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I think I read in the release notes for the last upgrade that it is more important now for the Allied player to bring resources back to his industries. Accordingly, I usually route the empty ships to any safe port that has resources I can move. This means Port Hedland early on, Nauru Is and Ocean Is if the Japanese do not have bombers at Tarawa yet, Juneau and one of the Alaskan islands [near Kodiak], and any place in the Indian Ocean that seems to be building a stockpile of resources. It's a bit of a pain to micromanage these small resource convoys with waypoints to keep them out of trouble, but if it gets me earlier production on new tanks, guns and planes, I'll put up with it.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/1/2012 9:59:50 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		BBfanboy. Never new about the resources? Only PH seems to be short on it?

Looks like Erik will make a stand on Ndeni...






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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 9/1/2012 10:00:31 AM >

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/1/2012 12:26:45 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		SC TF composition - 2 Fast BBs (28 knot) with 6 to 8 DDs (Fletcher and/or Porter Class) and/or 2 Cleveland Class CLs with same DDs as BBs get. Keep TF below 12 ships and have the main guns have the same range. IMO, except for the best of the Japanese CAs and BBs, the Cleveland CLs can go head-to-head with what the Japanese throw at them.

Barges - use them to take some of the smaller bases. Those just north of Luganville, ship in a SB (SeaBee) unit to build up the bases before moving in a BF and/or CD unit.

How goes the purchase and training of your destroyed naval air groups??

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/1/2012 4:04:35 PM   
JocMeister

 

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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I bought the fighter units out months ago! Two are sent to Burma and will be filled up with elite pilots. Second group will arrive in CT next turn. The other groups are bought out but havn´t arrived yet. They will have to be given green crews and be trained up since I´m almost out of pilots.

I´ve held off buying the DBs since I need the PPs to buy out 2 US divisions ASAP. But they will be given priority after that. TBs I´m not sure about. So far TBs in general have proved completely useless for me... is it worth it? They are very expensive!

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Post #: 102
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/1/2012 5:33:39 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		If not Avengers, then use the longer range Beauforts. Got to be able to make him pay for hitting a base during the night and not being able to get beyond torpedo range in the morning.

Make sure the leaders of the green units are good.

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/1/2012 8:31:53 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		About the resources again - I readily admit to not being expert on the Allied production system, but it certainly seems the majority of production in the US occurs off-map, i.e. Eastern USA and parts of the Mid-west not represented. The West Coast industries could not produce all the fuel, supplies, devices and manpower showing up at WC bases. I have never figured out if aircraft also show up from off-map production, but I see no reason why not.
Thus, although resource stockpiles seem good on the WC, the game engine for Allied Production could be programmed to use additional resource inputs and it would not be visible to you unless you ran parallel games - one with and one without additional resources. Putting that idea together with what I read about resource transport being more important, I assume it makes a difference.
Two caveats - I have not been able to find the place I read it yet, and it is possible what I read applied to one of the mods rather than the new game release from Matrix. At my age, remembering what I did last week is an accomplishment!

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 104
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/1/2012 8:36:11 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Your stategy for the New Hebrides looks good to me - doable with the resources you have. What level port/airfield are at Tanna, south of your buildup?
Do you need to suppress or invade it?

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 105
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/2/2012 9:17:40 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Michael, I did something stupid and converted the Beuforts to the fighter variant and have been using them for training up fighter pilots...not a smart move I know now. Even if I covert them back I have no torpedo trained pilots...

BBfanboy, I´ll try and find some info on the subject. If you are right it makes perfect sense to use the empty convoys to pick up resources on their way back!

Tanna is at level 2 port and level 6 airfield. I will use it for a last staging point before I hit Efafe. I have some 80 Fighters based there. Anatom to the south is in enemy hands but almost empty with 60 troops and 40 AFVs (motorized support?). The airfield has been shut for months with runway damage of 87. Its a level two field.

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Post #: 106
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/2/2012 9:32:26 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Uhhhh - yeah - Anatom was the one I meant to ask about in post 105 ; Thanx for answering the question before I even got it right!

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/2/2012 9:33:50 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I kind of figured that was what you meant!

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/2/2012 2:21:54 PM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		My tracker output for DBB 28B is that the continental USA has 10,000 excess resources per day. I have never shipped any there. In the first few days of a new game, there are some shortfalls until things get ironed out. but after 7-10 days you should not get any failures at all in the USA.

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/2/2012 2:57:30 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		The AFB part of me (I enjoy both sides) with Allied production would have me producing 120 Beaufort VIII per month and make almost all the Aussie bomber air groups be equipped with these airframes. I've loved them since old WITP days and would make it lethal for Japanese ships to get within 8 hexes of an Allied base from early '43 to the end of the war.

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/2/2012 4:04:05 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Michael,

I´ll risk looking like a idiot here ... but why? The Avenger and Beaufort have about the same stats?

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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/4/2012 4:31:17 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Invasion of Efafe will commence in 12-14 days. Erik will probably let this pass by without interference as I don´t think he will risk the KB that far away. Unloading of the first wave will hopefully be complete by night. I will only land a INF regiment. Nothing more.

Depending on what Erik does I will land all support forces as soon as its safe. I will try and use fast unloading by night to be on the safe side. This will be an "trial and error" invasion. A rehearsal for the Luganville invasion. That one I´m sure he won´t let go without interference!

Btw, How beautiful is this?!




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RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/7/2012 8:14:43 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Things are slowly, slowly getting in position in SoPac. Shifting forces and shipping around to get to their start off positions.

Anatom invasion - 2 days.
Efafe - 7 or 8 days.
Luganville - 3 to 4 weeks (late April/early May)

All initial invasions will be carried out with APAs to ensure we get in and out during the night. The APA/AKAs will then have to RTB to pick up the first wave of followup forces (AS, engineers). Once a CAP can be put up Barges will move in the second wave of followup forces (BFs, lots of Engineers, CD guns, AirHQs).

Coinciding with the Luganville invasion I will launch a massive air offensive in Burma. This will see the biggest commitment of Allied airpower this far. The sole purpose of this is to test the Japanese air strength in Burma. In order to make any progress on land I need to be able to use bombers over fortified cities in Burma. I have been unable to do this without sustaining unacceptable losses in Fighterstrenght. I will try and maintain this offensive for two "cycles" (6-8 days) rotating the units involved.

This will see the combat debut of the Hellcat! I have high hopes the ability to use high altitude sweeps (above 31k feet) will finally put an end to the Tojo dominance. We have a HR limiting altitude to the 2nd best MVR band. This I think was not the best HR for the allied cause as it has made the early allied fighters more or less useless against the high altitude sweeps by the Tojo. But now the tables are turned for the first time and Erik will have to face the same situation I have been stuck with. Hopefully he won´t enjoy





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Post #: 113
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/8/2012 10:14:20 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Efafe first wave have been loaded on transports. They will be LRCAPed by 50 P38 and 25 Corsairs. KB intervention is unlikely. But if he comes I hope to wreck his strike enough to force him to withdraw and making him unable to interfere with the Luganville landing.

I sent a parachute force of 50 AV to Anatom...didn´t do very well.

Ground combat at Anatom (120,159)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1165 troops, 12 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 60

Defending force 555 troops, 0 guns, 44 vehicles, Assault Value = 11

Allied adjusted assault: 24

Japanese adjusted defense: 25

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Assaulting units:
503rd Parachute Regiment

Defending units:
16th Div /4
Sasebo 6th SNLF /1

The leader in question had all relevant skills in the 50s and 60s. Woot?

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Post #: 114
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/8/2012 8:30:40 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		14th of April

Anatom and Efafe are liberated without opposition so far. Almost without opposition... 30 Betties/Nells are shot down for zero loss!

But there are some worries. Last turn I lost sight of the KB. Tulagi went from 80 ships to 24 after 3 days of bad weather. Thats probably the KB leaving for somewhere. I have withdrawn all shipping around Noumea, Tanna and Suva and upped CAP considerably. Strike aircraft are moved into position.

I don´t have much hope of getting a shot in if he comes but I´ll try. Fast BBs are withdrawn south a bit. Don´t want to risk them and no amount of CAP seems to be able to stop him breaking through.

I fiddled with my training squadrons and WC/PH/NoPac squadrons last few turns and it payed off big time. Pools are looking A LOT better now! I will be in trouble if he tries to raid WC or PH since I now have Buffs and Vindicators watching the coast though...But almost 200(!) Wildcats in the pool now. Enough to fill out all understrength squadrons and then some!


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Post #: 115
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/14/2012 7:35:17 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		25th of April

Burma air offensive is just about a week away from happening. I messed up something badly moving AS around and are now scrambling to get all the AirHQs and AS in place. I might have to postpone a few days as I have about 300 aircraft stationed and repairing at Calcutta. Problem is Calcutta only have 170 AS available. I´m railing in more but it will probably cause a delay. Stupid mistake...
I decided NOT to fill the 72 Hellcats with the elite navy pilots. These will go to the carriers as it should be! They are now stuffed with a "midsection" of quality pilots in the 60 exp range.
Navy fighter pool is almost dry but I have about 100 Pilots soon fully trained (2 more weeks or so). Another 100 or so can be pressed into service if situation becomes dire (40/50/40).

Erik launched some sweeps towards Dimapur that did great the first time shooting down P40s at an exchange of about 10:1. Second try I had moved in some Hurris with green pilots and the ratio dropped to about 1:1.

The P40 is USELESS. If you read this and havn´t gotten to the point when you get the K model. Don´t expect anything better 1:10 against the Tojos. Against Zeroes M2, M3 and M5 you can expect 1:1 or even better at times. But against the Tojo you will suffer. Get Hurris to deal with them.


In SoPac things are going smoothly so far. No intervention yet. A bit surprised as Erik has launched the KB at first possible opportunity at earlier times.. Perhaps the threat of 300 DBs and TBs in the area keeps him wary?

First SoPac group upgraded to Hellcats! I get 4 or 5 PER DAY! Its really lovely!

Efafe is already built up to level 3 AF after 3 days. I have 215 Engineers and 65 Engineer vehicles working like mad. As soon as I have room for some strike aircraft as well as CAP and LRCAP the Luganville invasion will start to assemble.

I will go in light this time too. Just a Regiment and a AirHQ in the first wave with APAs/AKAs. Only 680 troops on the island. They will only stay for a day. Second wave will be BFs and some serious CDs.

I think about 15-20 days from now will be realistic.

Just a brief update!

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Post #: 116
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/14/2012 9:29:34 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Use your P-40s as low CAP and place your Hurricane IIc as high CAP about 3k to 5k above them. Those 4x 20mm cannons can be nasty against the Japanese fighters. When his fighters go low for the P-40s, your Hurricanes can jump them.

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Post #: 117
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/15/2012 9:29:43 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Micheal,

Thats what I have been trying to do. But the P40 really take horrendous losses each time. I have had times when I lost 50+ P40 in a single sweep for 1-2 kills

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 118
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/15/2012 1:59:42 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		26th of April

The Burma airwar starts with a small fizzle and not the bang I had hoped for. I was planning on sending in 75 P38 using a combination of Sweep with one group and two groups on LRCAP. This has worked well sometimes and sometimes not. This time not as the LRCAP failed to show up at all.

So I had my most elite group (180 kills) of 25 P38 crash into a CAP of almost 50 Jap fighters. We still came out on top though. No Pilots lost! Puh!

Tomorrow the 2 Hellcat groups will sweep for the first time. I have high expectations for one of the groups that have very good pilots. The other group has green pilots so I expect some losses there.





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Post #: 119
RE: Carrier Clash. Sheep bites back? - 9/15/2012 4:25:53 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Re: that para assault on Efate in post #114 - he was sitting behind level 3 forts and paratroopers lack the stuff needed to destroy defences and root them out. He also had a terrain defensive bonus. He must have had a very good leader there to get a '-' on the allied side; I think the +/- ratings are relative between the combattants, not relative to some fixed value. The only other think I can think of is that the para leader didn't land with the group or was killed/disabled in the landing.
How did you get a deliberate attack there - I thought paras always shock attacked when they landed?

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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