RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J)

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/24/2012 12:51:02 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Now Question: How many planes i should produce in `43. Right now i am building 200 Tojos. If i should build more i can switch one or two R&D factories to production and if not i will convert all factories to research different planes.

These questions all relate to combat tempo and your losses, right? It also relates to how many air groups you have available for combat .vs. training. Finally, it also matters what you are going up against with the allies. I think of it this way:

Tojo/George are slightly better than P-40 types, on par with Lightning, and worse than Corsair and Thunderbolt. In combat this means against P-40 types, 1:1 numeric odds are ok, P-38's I want a bit better, and I need to be able to hold a minimum of 1.5:1 numerical advantage of Tojos/Georges against Corsairs and Thunderbolts. 2:1 is better.

So, to answer your question, I want at least a 15 day reserve in my pools AFTER I have to refill groups after a major combat cycle. Example: If my normal "maintenace" combat losses are 2/day and during a major thrust I might lose 75 aircraft, I want my Tojo+George pools = 30 a/c AFTER I have pulled 75 a/c from those pools. I don't really want more because I know that I will be replacing the Tojo with Frank and I will end up with 100's in the pool when that happens ... wasted HI at that point. Anyway, adjust your numbers based upon what you are actually seeing in your game.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/26/2012 6:17:36 AM

koniu

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13-14 Dec 42

Burma
Small bomber raid on Lashio and troops near Akyab. I planing another air trap.

Marshals, Salomons
KB on Sea.
Primary mission give cover to ships transporting huge number of troop. I have ~1000AV on ships. Those troops are sailing to garrison bases i planing as major defense points

Secondary mission. If enemy CV show up near Marshals - intercept and destroy.

After 9 days of firefight CL Abukuma sunk. There was day when fires go from 80 to 23 and i was hoping that ship will survive to only see next day fire 75.

On anther areas quiet. But we will have some action in china in next few days

< Message edited by koniu -- 10/26/2012 6:19:03 AM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/26/2012 7:55:31 AM

obvert

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In mid-43 I'm building only about 140 Tojos, both the IIa and the IIb. I ask produce a number of Oscars and some Tonys. It just depends on the pace of your operations and how much this will be relied on. When you get the George you may not need as many Tojos if you find that plane to be better also.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/26/2012 9:09:42 AM

koniu

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PaxMondo, Obvert
Thank for comments.

I have decided that 200 Ki-44 monthly will be enough.

I holding production of Tojo IIa from today. I have decent pool and i think it will be enough for next two weeks.In two weeks IIc will enter production. Plan is to replace all critical units (Burma) to IIc. That will free ~150 Tojos IIa to poll.
I will use IIa in secondary fronts like China until poll will drain.

I want to avoid situation like with Oscar. I have only 3 units flying them and poll have 80 Ic and 40 IIa. I will fly on those models until pool will drain and probably then switch to IIb model. Right now i a not producing Oscars.

< Message edited by koniu -- 10/26/2012 9:38:49 AM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/26/2012 10:28:02 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

In mid-43 I'm building only about 140 Tojos, both the IIa and the IIb. I ask produce a number of Oscars and some Tonys. It just depends on the pace of your operations and how much this will be relied on. When you get the George you may not need as many Tojos if you find that plane to be better also.

Remember George is a IJN plane, Tojo an IJA plane. George with it's 4x20mm cannon is my best 4E killer. Even late game it still works in that role for me. You have so few planes effective against 4E's.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/26/2012 12:26:33 PM

koniu

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My plan to use fighters in next two years

`43:

IJA:
Ki-44IIc as main fighter.
Ki-43IIb as escort( by end of year I will build pool to use as kamikaze)
Ki-45a (until Corsairs and Hellcats not arrive in numbers)

IJN:
A6M5 as carrier based fighter
N1K as LBA fighter. Main bomber killer.
How much of each will depend how many CV I will have. If KB will be destroyed I will focus mostly on George

`44
IJA:
Ki-44IIc as support fighter to Ki-84 and in areas with limited AV support (probably after polls are gone i will focus only on Frank
K-84 main army fighter
Ki-43 as escort and kamikaze

IJN:
A6M5 as carrier based fighter (i am not counting that KB will be operational)
N1K as LBA fighter. Main bomber killer

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/26/2012 1:46:06 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

In mid-43 I'm building only about 140 Tojos, both the IIa and the IIb. I ask produce a number of Oscars and some Tonys. It just depends on the pace of your operations and how much this will be relied on. When you get the George you may not need as many Tojos if you find that plane to be better also.

Remember George is a IJN plane, Tojo an IJA plane. George with it's 4x20mm cannon is my best 4E killer. Even late game it still works in that role for me. You have so few planes effective against 4E's.

When I write you might need fewer Tojos I mean because you choose to use more IJN groups. There is only so much field space and support to go around. So maybe those Tojo groups don't all fit in and they have to be railed/flown in and out for freshness, thereby reducing numbers needed.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/27/2012 12:38:23 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

In mid-43 I'm building only about 140 Tojos, both the IIa and the IIb. I ask produce a number of Oscars and some Tonys. It just depends on the pace of your operations and how much this will be relied on. When you get the George you may not need as many Tojos if you find that plane to be better also.

Remember George is a IJN plane, Tojo an IJA plane. George with it's 4x20mm cannon is my best 4E killer. Even late game it still works in that role for me. You have so few planes effective against 4E's.

When I write you might need fewer Tojos I mean because you choose to use more IJN groups. There is only so much field space and support to go around. So maybe those Tojo groups don't all fit in and they have to be railed/flown in and out for freshness, thereby reducing numbers needed.

Ahhh!!! Now I understand. Thanks for taking time to explain to ol' stonehead here.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 10/28/2012 5:36:20 PM

koniu

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15,16,17 DEC 42

Burma
Hurricanes sweep Lashio. Japanese pilots fight well. 11 Hurricanes shotdown for 4 Tojo and 2 Oscras (1 pilot KIA)

China
I have attack enemy East Of Sian. Attack can be call unsuccessful becouse expecting better result.
Good news is that enemy have 6 ID there and he manage to have only 485 adjusted AV on rough terrain.
I will continou bombardment and attack in 2-3 days

Ground combat at 85,39 (near Sian)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 24997 troops, 206 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 930

Defending force 29277 troops, 248 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1021

Japanese adjusted assault: 474

Allied adjusted defense: 485

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2689 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 269 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled

Allied ground losses:
479 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 73 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
41st Division
34th Division
5th Armored Car Co

Defending units:
13th Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
8th Group Army
43rd Chinese Corps

DEI
Quiet. I moving troops around, building base fortification and AF.
Fleet is (some BB and CA) moved closer to Oz. They are in risk of 4E attack in port but Docup is not reckoning those small dot basses.

Marshals
Lost of garrison units is moving toward destinations on Marshals and Salomons.
KB on sea currently SE of maoeolap. Bomber sunk at lest three YMS during search phase. I will sail for few more days patrolling area.

13 Ki-49 shot down over Wotje. Next turn i have close AF again.

Ship upgrades.
Some DD still in dec upgrades. I have notice that in January at lest 25 DD will have upgrades. I will do those upgrades in January and February (in February only few ships have upgrades)

I want to send one of E (scheduled to upgrade in 5/42) to shipyard but when i have enter to his upgrade screen everything is on red and i see info that upgrade is missed. Can i still upgrade that ship??

R&D
I am building pool of engine used by George and Frank. I want to have decent pool soon. I want to use engine bonus to accelerate them.

< Message edited by koniu -- 10/28/2012 5:38:00 PM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 9:29:59 AM

koniu

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18,19,20,21 Dec 42

Burma
I am unloading AIR HQ and some arty units in Rangoon. Docup was trying to intercept those ships but his SC TF was disrupted by Long Boats and Cargo ships run away

Salomon's
Garrison units safely unloading in destination points. Nothing more to report

China
Two unsuccessful attack on chines stack East of Sian. In summary Quiet

Marshals
KB sailing between Marshals and Johnston Island. During waiting in US reaction KB sunk few AVD and YMS ships

R&D
Ki-44IIc advance to 1/43. In 10 days i will start production.
All 8 factories converted to late war fighters r&d

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 10:17:30 AM

koniu

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22 DEC 42
That turn need more attention and will focus only on Marshals

KB was returning to home when on morning search planes find enemy TFs SE of KB position.
It look like enemy CV TF with BB and CA. Probably 4 big ones and few CVE are present.

KB planes attack two DD TF (only one in range) finding decent CAP.
I am happy like my Escorts work. They shot down 15 Wildcats for lose of 13 Zeros and 4 VAL

VF-6 CV Enterprise, CV-42 CV Yorktown,VRF-1F CVE Nassou, VMF-111 (originally LBA) air group presence confirmed

All Bombers miss but weather was main factor.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Maloelap at 148,116

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 19
A6M5 Zero x 18
D3A1 Val x 27

Allied aircraft
F4F-3A Wildcat x 11
F4F-4 Wildcat x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Kalk

Tomorrow i will close to enemy and destroy it

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by koniu -- 11/3/2012 10:29:29 AM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 10:34:40 AM

koniu

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Question:

Split KB or not. What strategy will be best.
Coordination can be huge problem for me with that Death Star, or not?

I have 10h to make decision any advise appreciated

EDIT: If he really have CVE in one TF with CV it will triple his mobility. Faster US CVE can move 16knot on flank.
I have him where i whant. He will be facing me far from LBA support (Marshals AF closed)
I have all Carriers in one place. And his TT are still broken (for 8 days only)

Allies should have there 4 CV and and 5 CVE.

< Message edited by koniu -- 11/3/2012 10:54:25 AM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:11:24 AM

Erkki

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Without knowing CV losses to date(0 for both sides, right?) I wouldnt split the KB. You might suffer 1 or 2 strike aircraft squads not coordinating, but splitting the KB, even if they stay in the same hex, might mean splitting your own defensive CAP, risking having that CAP out of position and risking getting defeated in detail. Not at this point in the war, when you could realistically still very well win.

This could be the last change to engage enemy CVs man-o-man before they have F6Fs... I hope you have BBs in the same TF with your CVs.

Only 24 ships in KB of 12 are carriers? Even with more TFs in same hex, that could mean that the great majority of strikes that get through will go after your CVs. But you cant change that any more. Good luck and Banzai!

EDIT: Okay, so he has lost 2. Yorktowns or Lexingtons probably. I'd go for the kill!

< Message edited by Erkki -- 11/3/2012 11:19:11 AM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:16:02 AM

koniu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Without knowing CV losses to date(0 for both sides, right?) I wouldnt split the KB. You might suffer 1 or 2 strike aircraft squads not coordinating, but splitting the KB, even if they stay in the same hex, might mean splitting your own defensive CAP, risking having that CAP out of position and risking getting defeated in detail. Not at this point in the war, when you could realistically still very well win.

This could be the last change to engage enemy CVs man-o-man before they have F6Fs... I hope you have BBs in the same TF with your CVs.

Only 24 ships in KB of 12 are carriers? Even with more TFs in same hex, that could mean that the great majority of strikes that get through will go after your CVs. But you cant change that any more. Good luck and Banzai!

Yes i have BB in that TF but only two. Two more are in SC TF. I have also CA TF but they will just die if attacked from air. It is best what i can have right now. Rest of BB is in DEI (4 sips) and two BB are in Japan taking repairs for next 6 monts after taking several TT.

I have sunk all British and two US CV (two more where damage (one and two TT hits)few months ago but s they should be repaired at that point)
He have now 4 Big CV and 8 CVE(tree should be still on WC as they arrive 7 days ago in Panama) in service.

24 Ships because Air combat TF can have only 25 ships max and screen shot was taken when i was rearranging TF composition so at end he will have 12 carrier, 2 BB, 2 CA, 2 CLAA, 7 DD

< Message edited by koniu -- 11/3/2012 11:24:00 AM >

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:26:08 AM

koniu

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I will send also two or three DD TF as picket. Maybe they will be attacked instead of KB

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:26:31 AM

Erkki

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

I have sunk all British and two US CV (two more where damage (one and two TT hits)few months ago but s they should be repaired at that point)
He have now 4 Big CV and 8 CVE(tree should be still on WC as they arrive 7 days ago in Panama) in service.

24 Ships becouse Air combat TF can have only 25 ships max

Hmm yeah, thats right. I might go with 2 TFs with 6 CVs + 2 Kongo BB each(if you have them there) with minimum 8 DDs in them both. And cruisers to provide AAA and draw attacks away from CVs. Give the first TF slow ships like Junyus and the CVLs and use the Big Six in the last TF. Then set the fast TF to follow the last one with a low-aggression leader and no reaction allowed. That shoul maximize the odds to keep the entire KB in a single hex, or at least adjacent ones. Also remember to set home port to closest friendly base NOW, so that they dont suddenly decide to refuel escorts(in case they react or use flank speed)! Also it could be worth it to set 1 of the Zero units to fly CAP only - 100% for tomorrow. You could also set the CAP to slightly different altitudes to help catching any low flying torpedo bombers.

I realize you probably cant do even half of the above now, but it should help.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:29:55 AM

Erkki

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I will send also two or three DD TF as picket. Maybe they will be attacked instead of KB

The enemy CVs will likely ignore them: 1) small ships 2) small TF. BUT what you can do with them is to flank speed towards the enemy (full speed, no retreat, direct routing). That might make the enemy CVs react away from trouble, which mind end in his CVTFs being in different hexes and break their formation. Dirty trick to test your opponents TF settings. But I'm not sure if 2-3 DDs are enough, and they probably wont get close enough any way.

Or just have them with the KB.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:31:17 AM

PaxMondo

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I always have KB setup in multiple TF's after Dec 7 attack to stay under the 250 plane limit and to keep enough escorts with my carriers to divert attacks from them. Rarely see CAP issues, in fact having all the CAP show up over the whichever TF gets attacked is pretty much the norm. Strike force coordination between all of the TF's ... now that doesn't always happen like I would want. And that can be both good and bad as you know.

However, remember I am playing against Andy AI ....

I agree with you here, if you can get him into battle it looks like you have a great opportunity. I think he is going to run though ... I would.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:31:56 AM

koniu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

I have sunk all British and two US CV (two more where damage (one and two TT hits)few months ago but s they should be repaired at that point)
He have now 4 Big CV and 8 CVE(tree should be still on WC as they arrive 7 days ago in Panama) in service.

24 Ships becouse Air combat TF can have only 25 ships max

Hmm yeah, thats right. I might go with 2 TFs with 6 CVs + 2 Kongo BB each(if you have them there) with minimum 8 DDs in them both. And cruisers to provide AAA and draw attacks away from CVs. Give the first TF slow ships like Junyus and the CVLs and use the Big Six in the last TF. Then set the fast TF to follow the last one with a low-aggression leader and no reaction allowed. That shoul maximize the odds to keep the entire KB in a single hex, or at least adjacent ones. Also remember to set home port to closest friendly base NOW, so that they dont suddenly decide to refuel escorts(in case they react or use flank speed)! Also it could be worth it to set 1 of the Zero units to fly CAP only - 100% for tomorrow. You could also set the CAP to slightly different altitudes to help catching any low flying torpedo bombers.

I realize you probably cant do even half of the above now, but it should help.

I can do all of that. I have all ships in single hex so i can move that between TFs as desired.

As for CAP i have already done that.
70 A6M5 with elite pilots is flying CAP at range 0 most is flaying between 10-18k feet at range 7. Two small group are flying on 5 and 8k to intecept TB. Docupu usualy is setting them at 6k

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 11:37:27 AM

koniu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I always have KB setup in multiple TF's after Dec 7 attack to stay under the 250 plane limit and to keep enough escorts with my carriers to divert attacks from them.� Rarely see CAP issues, in fact having all the CAP show up over the whichever�TF gets attacked is pretty much the norm.�� Strike force coordination between all of the TF's ... now that doesn't always happen like I would want.� And that can be both good and bad as you know.

However, remember I am playing against Andy AI ....

I agree with you here, if you can get him into battle it looks like you have a great opportunity.� I think he is going to run though ... I would.

I think he will run.
All last days he heave best DL 3 and my plains when attacking where looking like MKB. Single Bomber Group only when attacking.
Todays he have DL 7/7 so he know that there is much bigger force that MKB. What i will do i will try to catch soeme of those CVE at lest. They are slow and if i will be lucky i will have chance to chatch them tommarow.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 2:51:29 PM

koniu

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Turn send

I have split KB in half ~340 planes in Single TF.

Two M5 fighter squadrons flying 100% CAP with range 0
Rest of A6M5 are set to CAP 40% range 7. M3a and M2 are flying CAP 30% range 7
On average i should have 50% planes on CAP.

50% of fighters is in 13k rest is creating layered CAP 6-18k feet

DB are on 13k with 10-20% search range 7 (i know 60kg bomb on range 7 but DB presence should help TBs to have better score rate)
TB are on 13k range 7 10% search (all using TT)

Naval search is enhanced by 15 E13A1 from CS Nisshin

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 3:49:15 PM

PaxMondo

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 4:16:03 PM

koniu

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I had send turn 2h ago and i was already checking my TF setting three times to be sure all was set as should be.

Waiting is killing me

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/3/2012 4:55:14 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I had send turn 2h ago and i was already checking my TF setting three times to be sure all was set as should be.

Waiting is killing me

Believe me, I know the feeling.

This is the fun moment though that gets the heart racing. I love this part of the game.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/4/2012 9:03:49 AM

koniu

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We got them

Morning Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 153,114

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 19
A6M5 Zero x 12
D3A1 Val x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
YMS-102, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-103, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

BANZAI!! BANZAI!!

And seriously. Allied carriers run away. Big disappointment

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/4/2012 10:27:06 AM

obvert

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Ha!

Yes, not quite as exciting as seeing a CV in the sights.

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(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 806

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/4/2012 3:40:50 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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24 DEC 42

Marshals
KB split all over Pacific. SC TF decide to move 13 hexes (movement bug).
1 half of KB move 9, second half 4(they refuel on sea)
Lucky no enemy around.

Today we will upgrade to 1119h patch. That should fix those problems

R&D
First N1K1 George factory repaired. I have 500+ Ha-45 engines so engine bonus will work.
I am expecting George entering production no later than 6/43. 70% chances are for May. 30% for April
I think i will build 150 of them

< Message edited by koniu -- 11/4/2012 3:42:44 PM >

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Post #: 807

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/4/2012 4:58:38 PM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
First N1K1 George factory repaired. I have 500+ Ha-45 engines so engine bonus will work.
I am expecting George entering production no later than 6/43. 70% chances are for May. 30% for April
I think i will build 150 of them

Tally up how many groups can convert and set your build based upon that.

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Post #: 808

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/4/2012 5:13:59 PM

koniu

Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
First N1K1 George factory repaired. I have 500+ Ha-45 engines so engine bonus will work.
I am expecting George entering production no later than 6/43. 70% chances are for May. 30% for April
I think i will build 150 of them

Tally up how many groups can convert and set your build based upon that.

All navy fighter groups can convert to George.

On beginning that upgrade is blocked for KB
But it looks like moving group to ground AF is unblocking George for all KB fighter units.
I have check all my navy fighter groups one by one(KB, LBA in front line and those in Japan working as training groups) all can upgrade to all George versions

Production size will depend of situation. I will keep Zero in production as long as KB will be live, so i will need lees N1K. If KB go down i will produce more Groerge.

I have 14x30 George factories. 5 will move to production and 9 to R&D K2.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by koniu -- 11/4/2012 5:56:23 PM >

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(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 809

RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 11/4/2012 7:03:56 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
All navy fighter groups can convert to George.

Sweet!

Yep, convert them all then. A6M series is way outdated. George is a LOT better, best Navy fighter you get until Sam. And that is a long time coming.

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(in reply to koniu)

Post #: 810