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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 2:37:38 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

nice pocket again terje


Thank you

Terje

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 2:44:37 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 85

Overall
So, the pocket held, and the wise thing would probably be to rest the panzers for a turn to let them refuel, so I lashed out and captured two more USSR stacks instead. Nothing big, but it is nevertheless another 50 points down the drain for the USSR. I am somewhat confused however. Is this the real state of the USSR defences or not?! If it is, I will keep attacking, as we are talking one hex with lvl 3 forts and nothing of essence behind. My recons cannot locate any other troop concentrations either, so there simply does not seem ot be more USSR reserves around. The depth of the bulge I have created is starting to scare me however, so I think I will need to redirect my assault if I am to keep attacking. North lies Moscow, but going South will shorten my line more...Decisions decisions.
74 attacks this turn, for a score of 6 helds, 52 retreats, 3 routs and 13 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
27.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
5.

Losses
USSR : 277.000 troops, 4.315 guns, 290 AFVs, 459 AC.
Axis : 50.000 troops, 483 guns, 125 AFVs, 126 AC.

USSR units lost
1 cavalry corps, 20 rifle divisions, 2 tank brigades, 3 rifle brigades, 1 naval rifle brigade.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
6.

German pools
Manpower : 1.091
Vehicles : 179.118
Armaments : 42.435
Hiwi : 19







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 422
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 3:11:55 PM   
hfarrish

 

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How many divisions/brigades/corps has he lost overall? He really looks terribly weak right now, and I suspect his morale situation is terrible. If you keep pocketing units you may be able to get him to the point of no return (or at least so feeble that he can't strike back until it's too late.

Going for the win would be a lot more fun than going into turtle mode for you I suspect...

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Post #: 423
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 3:28:16 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


How many divisions/brigades/corps has he lost overall?


Depending on how you count, but between 550 and 600 divisions have been taken out


Terje


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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 424
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 3:39:27 PM   
janh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439
I am somewhat confused however. Is this the real state of the USSR defences or not?! If it is, I will keep attacking, as we are talking one hex with lvl 3 forts and nothing of essence behind. My recons cannot locate any other troop concentrations either, so there simply does not seem ot be more USSR reserves around.


Looks like it, and for 1942, I would it expect to be like this. Although with a rather gentle 1941, your Russian opponent may have more and better resources, but they remain limited. Limited to building fort belts on the defense largely since the direct combat power (moral and experience wise, but also equipment and formation wise) is limited.
You also took a huge bite out of the Russian bear with your mega-pocket, and from the looks of it you really turned the game around with this. The initiative is still yours, and if you continue with a favorable exchange rate like this, you're good. I'd keep pushing

You really surprised me showing that Wehrmacht still has such a huge potential in 1942, even if 1941 goes worse than average. I know it is strong, but this strong... Small mistakes, exploited by either side at the right moment, can obviously turn a whole game around. Maybe Pelton in his game just missed the right opportunity, else he might have been even more successful? Very impressive, Terje, I really enjoy following your game.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 3:54:51 PM   
hfarrish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

You really surprised me showing that Wehrmacht still has such a huge potential in 1942, even if 1941 goes worse than average. I know it is strong, but this strong... Small mistakes, exploited by either side at the right moment, can obviously turn a whole game around. Maybe Pelton in his game just missed the right opportunity, else he might have been even more successful? Very impressive, Terje, I really enjoy following your game.



Seriously - at one point I thought "great, another AAR where Terje defends futilely for three years" but boy was I wrong. This has become a really fascinating scenario of what can happen and hopefully it encourages players to stick things out.


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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 4:11:09 PM   
juret

 

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Status: offline 		mayby make a strokeforce with the panzers mecs and mots and just drive south from the whole now and gobble up units behind the front and envolp the front ones with the best fort values and therefore never meet hes best defensive positions head on , and only attack em when they got cv1 in pockets.

hes defence with tank brigades and inf divisions look very weak

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 4:44:41 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

You really surprised me showing that Wehrmacht still has such a huge potential in 1942, even if 1941 goes worse than average. I know it is strong, but this strong... Small mistakes, exploited by either side at the right moment, can obviously turn a whole game around. Maybe Pelton in his game just missed the right opportunity, else he might have been even more successful? Very impressive, Terje, I really enjoy following your game.



I think what saved me was the decision to bet it all on a gamble, and then keep pushing. As long as he is not allowed time to dig in again, I should be able to keep pushing for some time.
And yes, Pelton would have been more successful than me, but I think he went in at the wrong location, and that sealed it for him I am afraid.


Terje

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 428
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 4:50:51 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

Seriously - at one point I thought "great, another AAR where Terje defends futilely for three years" but boy was I wrong. This has become a really fascinating scenario of what can happen and hopefully it encourages players to stick things out.



Don't blame you, since I felt the same way

Terje


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("She is to be torpedoed!")

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 4:52:31 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

mayby make a strokeforce with the panzers mecs and mots and just drive south from the whole now and gobble up units behind the front and envolp the front ones with the best fort values and therefore never meet hes best defensive positions head on , and only attack em when they got cv1 in pockets.

hes defence with tank brigades and inf divisions look very weak


Yes, that was what I was thinking, as that also prevents the frontline from growing. On the other hand, two cities within short distance, which should mean some manpower centres...Hmm, really gotta think about this one.


Terje

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/14/2012 6:25:03 PM   
hfarrish

 

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Status: offline 		Speaking as a Soviet player and seeing his situation, I would definitely keep pressing for units and not worry about manpower at this point. Manpower is not going to be the bottleneck that kills him - units / APs are.

You aren't going to take enough manpower centres to matter until you have crushed him from a unit perspective; then they should fall pretty quickly.

< Message edited by hfarrish -- 12/14/2012 6:39:22 PM >

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/15/2012 10:23:11 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

Speaking as a Soviet player and seeing his situation, I would definitely keep pressing for units and not worry about manpower at this point. Manpower is not going to be the bottleneck that kills him - units / APs are.

You aren't going to take enough manpower centres to matter until you have crushed him from a unit perspective; then they should fall pretty quickly.



I came to the same conclusion, so I'll keep eating USSR units as long as I can.

Terje

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/15/2012 10:28:59 AM   
terje439


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Status: offline 		Turn 86

Overall
The decision has been made to keep eliminating USSR units, and push south, not east. Due to the ammount of USSR units being pushed out towards my units however, my panzers have to spend alot of MP to dislodge them. We still bag another 7 USSR units this turn, and we have more infantry moving up on the line, so we should be able to keep going for some time longer. The biggest concern now is the Cv of my panzers, some are down to 2 or 3 now...
71 attacks gave a result of 13 helds, 1 scouted, 54 retreats, 1 rout and 2 surrenders. The USSR also made an attack this turn, and forced a German Infantry Division to retreat.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
5.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
7.

Losses
USSR : 158.000 troops, 2.445 guns, 234 AFVs, 509 AC.
Axis : 49.000 troops, 482 guns, 166 AFVs, 103 AC.

USSR units lost
5 rifle divisions.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
4.

German pools
Manpower : 1.074
Vehicles : 179.183
Armaments : 50.877
Hiwi : 2.522







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by terje439 -- 12/21/2012 7:43:27 AM >

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 433
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/15/2012 11:34:57 AM   
Peltonx


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Status: offline 		Its a game of math and time as it always is.

As long as you are pocketimg units don't stop. The normal ratio of 2.7 to 1 jumps up to 5 to1+ with captured enemy troops.

You clearly have and AP crunch going which is gaining you a full turn every time you pocket more then 5 divisions.

Push until mud, recover and then try again in snow.

As long as you can capture enemy troops PUSH EAST!

Like I said SHC is doing something wrong with his army and crush him while you can

As GHC you can only take what your given, take advantage of it while you can

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/15/2012 11:38:37 AM >

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/15/2012 12:38:34 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Its a game of math and time as it always is.

As long as you are pocketimg units don't stop. The normal ratio of 2.7 to 1 jumps up to 5 to1+ with captured enemy troops.

You clearly have and AP crunch going which is gaining you a full turn every time you pocket more then 5 divisions.

Push until mud, recover and then try again in snow.

As long as you can capture enemy troops PUSH EAST!

Like I said SHC is doing something wrong with his army and crush him while you can

As GHC you can only take what your given, take advantage of it while you can


Problem with pushing east is that it extends my front to such a length that I cannot protect my flanks at all. So I MUST shorthen the front imo. Apart from that I agree with you.


Terje

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/15/2012 2:12:32 PM   
juret

 

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Status: offline 		terje are u using airsupply to your panzers each turn?

if they got fuel bomb them with supply and otherwise if short on fuel. also move the airbases little forward so they all stand on the rail 1-2 hexes east to save trucks and supply.

(in reply to terje439)
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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/16/2012 2:22:33 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juret

terje are u using airsupply to your panzers each turn?

if they got fuel bomb them with supply and otherwise if short on fuel. also move the airbases little forward so they all stand on the rail 1-2 hexes east to save trucks and supply.


Yup, ach turn I fly as many air-supply moves as possible, and that limits the ammount of hexes the airfields can move each turn. I also have to take into account wether or not the USSR can push close to, and dislocate my airfields each turn. For poor English, blame the Capt'n

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to juret)
Post #: 437
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/16/2012 7:15:43 AM   
AFV


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Status: offline 		I think as long as you can pocket units, he won't really have anything to seriously threaten your flanks.
Eventually you will need to shorten the front, but not right now.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/16/2012 8:44:09 AM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		Seeing all those brigades forward makes me suspect your Soviet opponent won't be able to stabilize the front until the weather goes muddy.

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/16/2012 9:33:58 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

I think as long as you can pocket units, he won't really have anything to seriously threaten your flanks.
Eventually you will need to shorten the front, but not right now.


I partly agree :)
Brad has issues with units, no doubt about it. However so do I, my issue is not so much the number of units, as it is their CV. I have too many weak units, and to me it is starting to look dangerous. I will however take some time tomorrow and really look at the situation, and see what my options are.


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/16/2012 9:34:50 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Seeing all those brigades forward makes me suspect your Soviet opponent won't be able to stabilize the front until the weather goes muddy.


True.

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/18/2012 12:35:09 PM   
terje439


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Status: offline 		Turn 87

Overall
Strong USSR units appear on the southern flank of the salient, so the decission to attack southwards stands. I simply do not dare to push east, as I fear the USSR will launch a counterattack and seal off my panzers in the east. What I will do when the Italians run away, I do not know, as I currently need them to hold parts of the line.
56 attacks gave a result of 7 helds, 42 retreats, 4 routs and 3 surrenders this turn. Not too bad, but I really cannot afford too many held results as these are expensive. I also find it odd that Brad keeps pushing one of his Guards Divisions back into the same hex ever turn, allowing me to attack it again and again, draining it of men and equipment. Would make more sense to allow that one to gain strength and morale in my oppinion.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
7.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
4.

Losses
USSR : 175.000 troops, 2.776 guns, 334 AFVs, ??? AC.
Axis : 50.000 troops, 503 guns, 102 AFVs, ??? AC.

USSR units lost
5 rifle divisions, 1 tank brigade, 1 rifle brigade.

German units disbanded
1 Luftwaffe Field Division.

Partisans hunted down
6.

German pools
Manpower : 10.592
Vehicles : 180.774
Armaments : 63.058
Hiwi : 7







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by terje439 -- 12/21/2012 7:43:42 AM >

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 442
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/18/2012 4:17:54 PM   
veji1

 

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Status: offline 		can't you try to roll a right hook to strike behind Dniepropetrovsk while retreating from the yellow box to shorten and flatten your lines ? You might not bag much but frighten him into leaving the right side of the Dniepr to avoid having trapped units there ?

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/18/2012 5:28:38 PM   
hfarrish

 

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Is it possible to get a closer view of the forces you have available in the bulge at issue? From this level prudence seems to demand a fall back but hard to say.

Have you given any thoughts to starting up the construction of FZs in the rear once you go over to the defensive?

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/19/2012 11:33:13 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

can't you try to roll a right hook to strike behind Dniepropetrovsk while retreating from the yellow box to shorten and flatten your lines ? You might not bag much but frighten him into leaving the right side of the Dniepr to avoid having trapped units there ?


Thinking along the same lines right now


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 445
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/19/2012 11:35:43 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


Is it possible to get a closer view of the forces you have available in the bulge at issue? From this level prudence seems to demand a fall back but hard to say.

Have you given any thoughts to starting up the construction of FZs in the rear once you go over to the defensive?


Ofc, see below
Yes, I have thought about it
Hehe nah, some are allready built, although those are rather far back (Rumanian border). I am not sure if I can spare troops to dig in at this time, I will have to see what I have to spare if I fall back some. If I get enough, I will start digging in, but I will only use FZs to prevent decay and disband them as soon as possible. I have (as always) a severe manpower shortage...


Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 446
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/19/2012 11:41:05 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 88

Overall
Last turn I talked about my weak flank, this turn Brad launched 5 attacks at it, scoring 1 held and 4 retreats. I am now contemplating falling back to the red line on the maps below, and keep pushing south with my panzers. We shall see how it turns out. The good news this turn is that we bag a corps unit. Those are worth "extra" points in that they are rather expensive for Brad. So I am happy with that for now, but I am NOT certain that the pocket will hold however.
We launched 43 attacks, scoring 4 helds, 33 retreats, 3 routs and 3 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
4.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
7.

Losses
USSR : 124.000 troops, 1.844 guns, 251 AFVs, 412 AC.
Axis : 48.000 troops, 502 guns, 96 AFVs, 104 AC.

USSR units lost
1 rifle division, 1 tank brigade, 1 rifle brigade, 1 naval infantry brigade.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
5.

German pools
Manpower : 397
Vehicles : 179.945
Armaments : 55.436
Hiwi : 13






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by terje439 -- 12/21/2012 7:43:54 AM >

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 447
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/19/2012 11:41:35 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		Pocket southern flank






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by terje439 -- 12/19/2012 11:42:02 AM >

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 448
RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/19/2012 12:32:09 PM   
janh

 

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Status: offline 		Pulling back a small number of your depleted Panzer or Mot Divisions back to the red line or behind comes to my mind. Every 4th one from the Panzerarmies, perhaps? That way you can rotate them for refitting for a couple of turns, and have a contingency force available for your flanks.

Your analysis last turn was obviously spot on. Brad tried to lure you forward. However, to me it appears he is not doing this from a position of strength, but more like something born from desperation since you waltzed over his fort lines already and much of his force are weak units. Could that be true? If so, your last plan to turn southward and use the narrowing land gauge to Rostov to your favor would still be the best. That way you directly deal with this strongest forces, sort of the decisive battle.
If not -- how about setting up your own trap? A calculated risk with strong contingency forces and allowing him a "seemingly easy" time to drive deep into your flanks? Maybe you can get him to be greedy?

< Message edited by janh -- 12/19/2012 12:33:47 PM >

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RE: What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? No Olor... - 12/19/2012 10:37:34 PM   
Wuffer

 

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Status: offline 		he would have to commit the rest of the tripple-x-gang to rescue his corps...
opportunities, opportunities ...

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Post #: 450
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