RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what?

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 5:24:58 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
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WOW! That sounds pretty cool!

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 6:35:28 PM

marcbarker

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Like I said your imaginiation is your only limit to this game. Is there problems with it YES, is there good things Of Course Is it playable im its current form? YES...Is it worth the 39 US not really but it is what it is a game. Example D3, 59 US but playable on internet free! If they really wanted to sell this game they do what was already done with East Front, early PvP on the internet with servers. Easier to contain and control plus a wider base of players.

< Message edited by barker -- 2/25/2013 6:37:56 PM >

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 7:02:24 PM

Crossroads

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Mike, In my opinion 1.02B is more versatile anyway then 104 due to modability and how you can manipulate various oob's create platoon files etc. There is good reference on modding this and a lot of fun doing so. You can do as much as your imagination can do with that engine outside of manipulating the executable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

One of the things I really liked about 1.02B was the ability to add units otherwise forgotten. Example I was toying with an idea to create a mod that is basically a Squad Leader type Game using Squads to Regiment Level. Each squad would have FP approx 25% of the Current Platoon Level type Unit and etc. This was an idea and I know there is logisitics problems with it but it gives a person something to do with a game that will not be updated. You can then do scenarios that are squad leader scenarios and maps as such. Would be a revamp of the system but the game engine would not change.

Matrix (ie Jason) has been pretty good in providing support to modders in encrypting the platoon files sent to them. So while the encryption facility is strictly theirs to protect, it has been possible to create mods for the current JTCS 1.04 brand of games as well. My little mod (which Warhorse has played a significant role in creating new bitmaps and stuff - thanks again!) is a humble example of what is still possible.

About this thread, and on a separate note: I don't really understand what the doom and gloom is all about all of a sudden now, given Jason just posted here about them finally finding a suitable programmer to work with the engine.

And on a yet another note, it is not like this is the only old engine that has not full time staff working on it. Just look at the TOAW board for an example, lot of discussion about the latest patch to come out. And (I am guessing here) TOAW has sold way more than what TS / Matrix Campaign Series ever did...

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 8:24:24 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

Mike, In my opinion 1.02B is more versatile anyway then 104 due to modability and how you can manipulate various oob's create platoon files etc. There is good reference on modding this and a lot of fun doing so. You can do as much as your imagination can do with that engine outside of manipulating the executable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barker

One of the things I really liked about 1.02B was the ability to add units otherwise forgotten. Example I was toying with an idea to create a mod that is basically a Squad Leader type Game using Squads to Regiment Level. Each squad would have FP approx 25% of the Current Platoon Level type Unit and etc. This was an idea and I know there is logisitics problems with it but it gives a person something to do with a game that will not be updated. You can then do scenarios that are squad leader scenarios and maps as such. Would be a revamp of the system but the game engine would not change.

Matrix (ie Jason) has been pretty good in providing support to modders in encrypting the platoon files sent to them. So while the encryption facility is strictly theirs to protect, it has been possible to create mods for the current JTCS 1.04 brand of games as well. My little mod (which Warhorse has played a significant role in creating new bitmaps and stuff - thanks again!) is a humble example of what is still possible.

About this thread, and on a separate note: I don't really understand what the doom and gloom is all about all of a sudden now, given Jason just posted here about them finally finding a suitable programmer to work with the engine.

And on a yet another note, it is not like this is the only old engine that has not full time staff working on it. Just look at the TOAW board for an example, lot of discussion about the latest patch to come out. And (I am guessing here) TOAW has sold way more than what TS / Matrix Campaign Series ever did...

Well you must have an infinite pool of patience. Especially considering the last talk about a new patch for EF/WF was YEARS ago. I'd like to see that patch before I meet up with the grim reaper. I ain't gettin any younger. I hope they are at least PAYING this new programmer something besides Doritos and Corn Chips. And yes, I have been playing this and other wargames, although I have no idea what TOAW is. I've been playing a Tiller game called Winter War.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 8:55:51 PM

marcbarker

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I just found other interests that I dive into. I will just play this as I see fit and encrypt as I see fit and be very compatmentalized. So amazing how defensive some people get on this game like they gave birth to it themselves

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 9:24:16 PM

Crossroads

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Just saying things aren't quite so black and white. They seldom are. And yes, I have quite the patience, especially since I started the little modding I do.

I play JTCS in intervals, the other game I was referring to was The Operational Art of War. Sorry, thought that was a well known acronym.

I play quite a lot of Total War series as well, especially the various Rome mods that are around.

I never got into the modern Playstation first person shooters, I am propably too old for them

Hence the patience with these old engines, I suppose.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 9:46:38 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
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From: Silver City, NM USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Just saying things aren't quite so black and white. They seldom are. And yes, I have quite the patience, especially since I started the little modding I do.

I play JTCS in intervals, the other game I was referring to was The Operational Art of War. Sorry, thought that was a well known acronym.

I play quite a lot of Total War series as well, especially the various Rome mods that are around.

I never got into the modern Playstation first person shooters, I am propably too old for them Hence the patience with these old engines, I suppose.

Well in the YEARS that this "new and wonderful" patch have been promised, I haven't seen squat. Just lots of talk about another game based on this. That, and people who insist that THEIR way of playing is so much superior to any other way. Those folks have earned my ignore list so I don't see their silly posts any more.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/25/2013 11:48:19 PM

Otto von Blotto

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Pretty sad really waiting so eagerly for something that even when it comes won't live up to your expectations and dreams of it, maybe your dreams are not the developers dreams or the dreams of the many who play it but really I think you may need to be more realistic if the game hasn't lived up to your expectations after all this time what hope do you hold out for a new wonder patch, it may be that what you are doing doesn't fully satisfy you game wise as you seem unfulfilled. I would stick to 1.02B as that seems to be the only one that makes you happy. For the record I couldn't give a monkeys how you play with yourself and certainly wouldn't want to stop you if it makes you happy.

I must say I quite like the new artillery hit percentage and hope it doesn't change but that's just me.

Is the game perfect no, will it ever be no, has there ever been a perfect game no, will there ever be or do we live a perfect world ? I will let you work that one out for yourself. if you can read this of course and I'm not still on your ignore list.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 2/26/2013 1:10:21 AM

marcbarker

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Otto, Nice one, no harm no foul

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Post #: 39

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 2:58:25 AM

blacksherman

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/6/2010
From: MONTANA
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OK fellows, let us step back in time to the dark ages of the old Panzerblitz. Do you remember? There was no AI and if you engaged in a PBM game you had to write your units on a printed map sheet, mail it to your opponent, wait for his response, then start the process all over again. A 10 turn game might take three months to complete. No thank you, I like my computer and I like JTCS. I like it when I play an LCG against the AI. I like to do PBEM and be able to complete a game in a few days or weeks depending on its length. I like 1.04 and appreciate all the work Jason and the gang have done. This is a good game and if they come out with 1.05 fine. If not, I'm fine with that too. In my opinion, we've only just scratched the surface as far as coming out with new scenarios. The editor is so easy to understand and scenario design is like a game unto itself.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 12:56:58 PM

MrRoadrunner

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Mr. Blacksherman, talking sense will not work. You will be accused of defending a game they believe should not be defended, unless you want to increase the ability to play against the computer.
Both Barker and Deputy, if given the best of the best will still simply play with themselves anyway. They like it that way.

RR

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Post #: 41

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 4:01:43 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
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From: Silver City, NM USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Mr. Blacksherman, talking sense will not work. You will be accused of defending a game they believe should not be defended, unless you want to increase the ability to play against the computer.
Both Barker and Deputy, if given the best of the best will still simply play with themselves anyway. They like it that way.

RR

Exactly right. Never played against a human opponent and never will. If I wanted to play aganst a human opponent I would go much further back than Panzerblitz and just play Avalon Hill board games. They were quite good and playing against a human was fun. I didn't buy a computer to end up playing Avalon Hill boardgames. I bought the computer to substitute as an opponent. One that was there whenever I wanted to play. Sometimes I go days and even weeks before going back to a campaign game I started. I have one campaign in Rising Sun that has to be 6 MONTHS before I played it last. I have multiple campaign games going on at the same time. Think you would be happy waiting WEEKS or MONTHS for me to make my next move in a PBEM game? I don't think so.
I play 1.02B because that's the last update I like. Ain't nobody gonna force me to play anything else. What I HOPED for was some interest from Matrix in actually FIXING WHAT"S BROKE in this game. Obviously, it is so low on their priority list it isn't funny. If they are depending on unpaid, charity programmers to repair what's wrong, then we will all be dead and buried before any new patch is released.

< Message edited by Deputy -- 3/16/2013 8:11:51 PM >

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 6:55:01 PM

Jason Petho

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From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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quote:

What I HOPED for was some interest from Matrix in actually FIXING WHAT"S BROKE in this game.

List off what you think is broken, please.

Jason Petho

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 8:25:23 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
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From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

What I HOPED for was some interest from Matrix in actually FIXING WHAT"S BROKE in this game.

List off what you think is broken, please.

Jason Petho

Jason...you HAVE to be joking. If I had a nickel for every post that complained about what is not working in this game, I could discontinue my Social Security payments. C'mon, just look in the threads that are months/years old for that info. Okay....I'll give you TWO out of many things....that damn AI burning up movement points by having certain units go back and forth until their movement points are burnt up. I spend forever waiting for that to complete before I can take my turn. How about some campaigns where after you win and you're supposed to get a medal and promotion, the game crashes to desktop? The Winter War campaign is one that does this. Okay, those are just two.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 8:29:28 PM

berto

Posts: 20708
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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Never played against a human opponent and never will ... I didn't buy a computer to end up playing Avalon Hill boardgames. I bought the computer to substitute as an opponent. One that was there whenever I wanted to play. Sometimes I go days and even weeks before going back to a campaign game I started. I have one campaign in Rising Sun that has to be 6 MONTHS before I played it last. I have multiple campaign games going on at the same time. Think you would be happy waiting WEEKS or MONTHS for me to make my next move in a PBEM game? I don't think so.

As a dedicated AI-only player, I too want to see the AI "fixed".

Don't expect that any time soon, likely not in the immediate next patch. Beyond that, as a longer term objective, I will give it my best effort to improve the CS game series' AI.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 8:39:45 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
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From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Never played against a human opponent and never will ... I didn't buy a computer to end up playing Avalon Hill boardgames. I bought the computer to substitute as an opponent. One that was there whenever I wanted to play. Sometimes I go days and even weeks before going back to a campaign game I started. I have one campaign in Rising Sun that has to be 6 MONTHS before I played it last. I have multiple campaign games going on at the same time. Think you would be happy waiting WEEKS or MONTHS for me to make my next move in a PBEM game? I don't think so.

As a dedicated AI-only player, I too want to see the AI "fixed".

Don't expect that any time soon, likely not in the immediate next patch. Beyond that, as a longer term objective, I will give it my best effort to improve the CS game series' AI.

Agree 100%. Although all we can "give" is feedback on what is wrong with the AI. And it appears that even that isn't watched very closely or has much priority. They seem more interested in adding new "features" than in fixing what isn't working right.

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 8:48:18 PM

berto

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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Agree 100%. Although all we can "give" is feedback on what is wrong with the AI. And it appears that even that isn't watched very closely or has much priority. They seem more interested in adding new "features" than in fixing what isn't working right.

I am now one of "they". See

Introductions

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/16/2013 9:42:34 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

Agree 100%. Although all we can "give" is feedback on what is wrong with the AI. And it appears that even that isn't watched very closely or has much priority. They seem more interested in adding new "features" than in fixing what isn't working right.

I am now one of "they". See

Introductions

LOL...well it's nice to see someone admit to it!!!

Congrats!

I sure hope Matrix is PAYING you for your efforts. BTW...I am originally from the Chicago area. I lived in Wilmette, a northern suburb for a LONG time. Moved to New Mexico in 2005. I don't miss the snow at all.

< Message edited by Deputy -- 3/16/2013 9:43:09 PM >

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/17/2013 3:44:29 AM

scottintacoma

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Berto,

Glad you play against the AI. I know any changes are down the road. I am looking forward to Modern Wars and then the 1.05 update.

Welcome to the team and Good Luck.

Scott in Tacoma

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/17/2013 4:28:41 PM

MrRoadrunner

Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Mr. Blacksherman, talking sense will not work. You will be accused of defending a game they believe should not be defended, unless you want to increase the ability to play against the computer.
Both Barker and Deputy, if given the best of the best will still simply play with themselves anyway. They like it that way.

RR

So much for the "ignore" button. BTW, why don't you send Jason e-mails instead of constantly complaining in open forum without offering a solution to anything?

RR

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Post #: 50

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/17/2013 5:39:40 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy
Jason...you HAVE to be joking. If I had a nickel for every post that complained about what is not working in this game, I could discontinue my Social Security payments. C'mon, just look in the threads that are months/years old for that info. Okay....I'll give you TWO out of many things....that damn AI burning up movement points by having certain units go back and forth until their movement points are burnt up. I spend forever waiting for that to complete before I can take my turn. How about some campaigns where after you win and you're supposed to get a medal and promotion, the game crashes to desktop? The Winter War campaign is one that does this. Okay, those are just two.

If I had a nickel for every post of yours that was whining or complaining instead of something useful or productive, I could hire (at the going rates) a full production team and get this product out the door by the end of the month.

Thanks for the TWO things.

Jason Petho

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/17/2013 10:53:20 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy
Jason...you HAVE to be joking. If I had a nickel for every post that complained about what is not working in this game, I could discontinue my Social Security payments. C'mon, just look in the threads that are months/years old for that info. Okay....I'll give you TWO out of many things....that damn AI burning up movement points by having certain units go back and forth until their movement points are burnt up. I spend forever waiting for that to complete before I can take my turn. How about some campaigns where after you win and you're supposed to get a medal and promotion, the game crashes to desktop? The Winter War campaign is one that does this. Okay, those are just two.

If I had a nickel for every post of yours that was whining or complaining instead of something useful or productive, I could hire (at the going rates) a full production team and get this product out the door by the end of the month.

Thanks for the TWO things.

Jason Petho

Mr. Roadrunner: Like the game, the forum has bugs.

And the reply above is why I don't PM Jason. He thinks the USERS should be the ones fixing things by providing "useful and productive" input. Input that obviously falls on deaf ears, since the same requests for repairs have been ongoing since Tiller was working on the game. They prefer to ignore those bugs and fix or add stuff that have only a peripheral effect on the game.
In other words, the buck stops with US instead of those that are selling this thing. And it's pretty obvious that 1.05 will be released when we are all dead and buried. So my original topic question has been answered.

< Message edited by Deputy -- 3/18/2013 4:45:12 PM >

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/17/2013 11:12:05 PM

Jason Petho

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/18/2013 3:00:33 AM

Otto von Blotto

Posts: 273
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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy
Jason...you HAVE to be joking. If I had a nickel for every post that complained about what is not working in this game, I could discontinue my Social Security payments. C'mon, just look in the threads that are months/years old for that info. Okay....I'll give you TWO out of many things....that damn AI burning up movement points by having certain units go back and forth until their movement points are burnt up. I spend forever waiting for that to complete before I can take my turn. How about some campaigns where after you win and you're supposed to get a medal and promotion, the game crashes to desktop? The Winter War campaign is one that does this. Okay, those are just two.

If I had a nickel for every post of yours that was whining or complaining instead of something useful or productive, I could hire (at the going rates) a full production team and get this product out the door by the end of the month.

Thanks for the TWO things.

Jason Petho

Snork made me spill my drink

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RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/18/2013 5:37:17 PM

MrRoadrunner

Posts: 1323
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy
Mr. Roadrunner: Like the game, the forum has bugs.

And the reply above is why I don't PM Jason. He thinks the USERS should be the ones fixing things by providing "useful and productive" input. Input that obviously falls on deaf ears, since the same requests for repairs have been ongoing since Tiller was working on the game. They prefer to ignore those bugs and fix or add stuff that have only a peripheral effect on the game.
In other words, the buck stops with US instead of those that are selling this thing. And it's pretty obvious that 1.05 will be released when we are all dead and buried. So my original topic question has been answered.

How old is the game?
What ancient code is the source of the game?
Matrix needs to make a profit, right?

You are the second biggest cry baby I've met on the internet concerning CS.
"Part of the solution or part of the problem" mean anything to you?
For a retired law enforcement officer you sure do whine like a two year old.

You should step up and do some of the work ... oh, that's right, you think Matrix should pay you millions of dollars. Never mind.

RR

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Post #: 55

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/18/2013 7:58:59 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deputy
Mr. Roadrunner: Like the game, the forum has bugs.

And the reply above is why I don't PM Jason. He thinks the USERS should be the ones fixing things by providing "useful and productive" input. Input that obviously falls on deaf ears, since the same requests for repairs have been ongoing since Tiller was working on the game. They prefer to ignore those bugs and fix or add stuff that have only a peripheral effect on the game.
In other words, the buck stops with US instead of those that are selling this thing. And it's pretty obvious that 1.05 will be released when we are all dead and buried. So my original topic question has been answered.

How old is the game?
What ancient code is the source of the game?
Matrix needs to make a profit, right?

You are the second biggest cry baby I've met on the internet concerning CS.
"Part of the solution or part of the problem" mean anything to you?
For a retired law enforcement officer you sure do whine like a two year old.

You should step up and do some of the work ... oh, that's right, you think Matrix should pay you millions of dollars. Never mind.

RR

"How old is this game?"
Very old. Feels like it is older than me.

"What ancient code is the source of the game?" I dunno. Obviously those at Matrix do. Or they should. If they don't, they wouldn't be able to do these oh-so-few patches that come out. And if they want the users to fix things, why not RELEASE THE CODE?

"Matrix needs to make a profit". This counters your "How old is this game" argument. Matrix has already paid for this game a thousands times over since it's been around for so long and for sale (at a not inexpensive) price for so long. Any copy of this game they sell is pure profit. And Matrix is milking this poor cow for every last penny they can get out of it.

So anyone who asks for Matrix to actually DO THEIR JOB and FIX WHAT IS BROKEN is called a crybaby". I hope you never buy a new car that has problems. I can imagine the dealer telling you "don't be such a crybaby and FIX IT YOURSELF".

I won't do the work because (1) Matrix ALREADY HAS people who are supposed to be doing the work and (2) I am no programmer. I am a user. If I knew how to fix it I would have done so YEARS ago. The repair folks SHOULD be getting paid, but Matrix seems to work on the "we made the game and the USERS can fix it" principle.

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)

Post #: 56

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/19/2013 9:39:58 AM

MrRoadrunner

Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

Please put me back on your ignore list.

deputy wrote: "I won't do the work <snip> I am a user."
That's about right.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

RR

_____________________________

�The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.�
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Deputy)

Post #: 57

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/19/2013 3:55:34 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Please put me back on your ignore list.

deputy wrote: "I won't do the work <snip> I am a user."
That's about right.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

RR

I'd like to follow, but I don't like what I would befollowing.

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)

Post #: 58

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/19/2013 4:34:12 PM

MrRoadrunner

Posts: 1323
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

Yup! If you are not the lead dog the view never changes?

RR

_____________________________

�The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.�
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

(in reply to Deputy)

Post #: 59

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what? - 3/19/2013 5:36:55 PM

Deputy

Posts: 447
Joined: 9/24/2005
From: Silver City, NM USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

Yup! If you are not the lead dog the view never changes?

RR

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a lead dog for this situation.

_____________________________

Squad Battles
John Tiller's Campaign Series

(in reply to MrRoadrunner)

Post #: 60

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Slitherine

RE: So is update 1.05 dead in the water or what?