Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns Series >> Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue >> Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy

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Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/5/2013 9:25:07 PM

Hugolin

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline

Hello! I couldn't find anything in the forum about this topic, but in the Case Blue scenario, what should I do with the Kriegsmarine's small assets, and what can I expect or fear from the Soviet Navy? I haven't explored this part of the game yet.

- The Soviets look very powerful (lots of boats!) compared to the KG... Should I fear a landing somewhere?

- I have several units garrisoning the coastal cities, am I losing time doing so?

- What about in multiplayer and pbem - anyone experienced a surprise landing?

- Are there classic moves to do with the navies?

Thanks a bunch!

Post #: 1

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/6/2013 10:04:09 AM

Keunert

Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline

The Soviets will rush to open supply lines to Sevastopol. i guess one option is to sacrifice your KM and interdict this as long as possible. A soviet landing is possible. there are enough ships to transport a fair amount of troops. keep important places guarded. but if the Axis offensive is played well i do not know what troops i could spare for a landing. this will of course change if the soviets survive the summer of 1942.

(in reply to Hugolin)

Post #: 2

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/6/2013 1:50:51 PM

Hugolin

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline

About:

quote:

The Soviets will rush to open supply lines to Sevastopol.

Are navies having any effect o supply, a bit like Air Units do?

In one AAR I've read about someone that did a landing en masse in the Caucasus, behind German lines, but couldn't supply it... So he withdrew, but at least the German player had sent some Armoured divs there...

(in reply to Keunert)

Post #: 3

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/6/2013 8:23:05 PM

marcpennington

Posts: 335
Joined: 1/31/2011
Status: offline

As the Germans, I considered making a landing in the Kuban from the Crimea, but realized because of the nature of the system where you have to move the barges adjacent, then wait a turn, then land the infantry which have no APs, such a landing would be suicidal unless the Soviets had either already evacuated the area, or left a port completely undefended.

More to the point, I only realized afterwards that moving the fleet to position from Rumania, and then using it to ferry units between Kerch and an already captured port near Rostov, burnt a tremendous amount of oil, which led to a front wide stalling of my offensive due to oil shortages until I played a couple of oil cards. I think the moral as the German side is to just never move your boats, and certainly not get off them...

(in reply to Hugolin)

Post #: 4

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/6/2013 8:46:01 PM

Hugolin

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/17/2013
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@ maps66: yes that's my feeling that with the current assets, the KG is pretty good where it starts, i.e. in port. Good point about fuel too...

Perhaps once a large part of the Caucasus is captured it can be useful to move units along the coastal ports?

Anyone ever tried the 'More Kriegsmarine' card to great effects?

(in reply to marcpennington)

Post #: 5

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/8/2013 3:34:55 AM

marcpennington

Posts: 335
Joined: 1/31/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hugolin

@ maps66: yes that's my feeling that with the current assets, the KG is pretty good where it starts, i.e. in port. Good point about fuel too...

Perhaps once a large part of the Caucasus is captured it can be useful to move units along the coastal ports?

Anyone ever tried the 'More Kriegsmarine' card to great effects?

I have never tried the More Kriegsmarine card, but my guess is more navy=more oil use, combined with no real way to mount an amphibious assault within the system, would make it pointless.

I'm not sure what Vic's thoughts are (or even really my own, given how amphib attacks might unbalance the scenario), but I do wonder if maybe the engine needs a way to make it at least reasonably possible to do attacks like from Kerch to the Kuban (or vice versa). I've experimented with stuff like using speed cards on landed forces and such, but given the multiple turn delay required for a landing, as well as the need to capture a port, I just don't see anyway under the current system that an amphib landing would have any real chance.

(in reply to Hugolin)

Post #: 6

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/8/2013 7:37:31 AM

LiquidSky

Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

The Russian navy is practically impossible to sink without suffering huge losses in aircraft to AA. Because of this, it is free to roam pretty much wherever it wants. The dinky axis navy cannot stand up to it.

So basically, the best you can hope for with the German navy is to interdict supply at Kerch/Sevastopol for as long as you can (about two turns). There will be no landing at Kerch, since the Russians can cut you off. You can do an annoyance landing with Ersatz units..then supply them by air. But you will quickly lose your fleet for doing so.

The Kriegsmarine card gives you a barge, a cargo ship, and an s-boat. Not a very good use of 100 points.

_____________________________

�My logisticians are a humorless lot � they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.� � Alexander the Great

(in reply to marcpennington)

Post #: 7

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/8/2013 1:32:10 PM

Hugolin

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline

Great read. I guess now I have to spend 5,000 pp if I want the KG to achieve supremacy in the Black Sea? 1 barge, 1 cargo and a s-boat, rinse and repeat 20 times, I can see better use of 100 pp...

From what I get from AARs and the rest, ship AA fire is too strong to be attacked by planes, which is a bit to much. One option (hopeful wish!) to add to the game could be a Naval Bomber type, few in numbers but enough to keep the Russian's from having entire impunity. Yes Russia AA would still do damage, but would also get some.

I guess the Russians (I haven't played Russia yet) could do some landing raiding for 'nuisance purpose' behind the enemy line... Get a city if lucky, etc. Anyone having a spectacular anecdote? Like landing a rifle brigade in an un-garrisoned Odessa?

Another use I can think of, perhaps the KG could move some divs from the Crimea to a captured Kuban town (direct port-to-port)? Bt then again, Russia could prevent this...

I conclude that it seems the German has to garrison its cities on the Black Sea against any surprise attack, while Russia has more of a tranquil time...

Also I searched for Naval Battles / WW2 / Black Sea and found this:
http://www.wio.ru/fleet/battl-black.htm

(in reply to LiquidSky)

Post #: 8

RE: Kriegsmarine and Soviet Navy - 5/9/2013 10:14:16 AM

karbo

Posts: 11
Joined: 4/15/2013
Status: offline

I also get some KM U-Boote as reinforcements. I mean real U-Boote, not mini subs.

(in reply to Hugolin)

Post #: 9