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RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory

 
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RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/28/2013 6:27:03 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Hollywoooddd !!!

Ehem...sorry. Well, any date to the release of the mod ? Will it be related with all the new stuff of Alt Naval Plans u have done on this thread and here ?

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Post #: 181
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/29/2013 4:42:34 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Well, what sort of mod do people want? I thought maybe I'd put together something a bit fictional but fun. But I'm thinking everyone here is too much into realism and simulation to enjoy something "gamey". Ideally I'd like to put something together someone out there might enjoy.

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Post #: 182
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/29/2013 7:32:14 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Definitely in favor of fun. There's enough historical stuff out there.

Cheers,
CC

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Post #: 183
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/30/2013 4:15:44 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

Hollywoooddd !!!

Ehem...sorry. Well, any date to the release of the mod ? Will it be related with all the new stuff of Alt Naval Plans u have done on this thread and here ?


I don't know if I will feature everything covered in the other thread. I'm thinking I may just churn out some hypothetical ship sides and just leave it at that, nothing scientific or realistically based, just some neat ships to play with. Maybe I'll have some 10 and 12 inch cruisers. If I do Germans there probably won't be any tiger tanks and not much mechanized. Just mostly infantry...plus some cool Kriegsmarine ships.

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Post #: 184
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/30/2013 10:08:09 AM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline
That sounds great.

With Samoa/Tahiti and such on axis hands game will be very interesting. A whole new scenario. It's a very good idea.

I can't wait to see those cool Kriegsmarine ships !!! O-P-H ships ? S-boats storming the Pacific ?

BTW: Nice pic.

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Post #: 185
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/31/2013 2:28:14 AM   
TSCofield

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 5/12/2001
From: Ft. Lewis Washington
Status: offline 		Go nuts Gary. Who cares about 'historically correct' anyway. RA isn't historically correct yet I have a lot of fun with it. The whole point of the game is to have fun.

A nice 'what if' scenerio is great. If people don't like it, they won't play it. As for me, I sure will. I loved WPO (still want it for WitP-AE).

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Post #: 186
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/31/2013 5:31:55 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Thanks SimHq Tom! I like your advice and will follow it!

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Post #: 187
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 5/31/2013 2:18:36 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1265
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Status: offline 		Go to it Gary! I've been saying for years that the initial game designers should strive for as much absolute historical accuracy as is possible, and let the modders come up with the wild, weird, and wonderous alternatives. That way every player could choose his own cup of tea.

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Post #: 188
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/2/2013 1:27:13 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		I am working on one of those wild, weird, wondrous (I hope) games right now. I think I will call "Fantasygasm in the Pacific." Still clearing little things up like Sudden System Damage appearing because the of little things like the upgrade # being different than what it's supposed to be, etc., etc., etc.

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Post #: 189
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/2/2013 3:38:40 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		"Fantasygasm in the Pacific" sounds like a cool name.

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Post #: 190
Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/3/2013 6:49:27 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Just finished creating the list of German ship captains, 1329 of them.

Basically the only names I could find for the Kriegsmarine were U-Boat captains on U-Boat.Net. So all my German naval ship captains are/were real life U-Boat commanders. Not such a bad thing. In my alternative universe these men might have radically different careers. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it! )

Their combat effectiveness is based on the following:

The first thing I did was create a series of 1329 random numbers between 40 - 60 using the random number generator at random.org. This was my base experience sequence for all the commanders. So every commander had various levels of experience, skill, air, surface etc. between numbers 40-60.

After that random sequence I went back and tweaked the experience of approxiimately 100 commanders who had distinguished careers according to U-Boat.net. I looked at the top 100 or so U-boat commanders who had sunk the most shipping. The list included total # of sorties and total # of ships sunk as well as total tonnage. For each captain I took the # of ships sunk and divided by sorties to come up with the average ships sunk per sortie. I used this as the base score to determine the skill level of each of those 100 captains. All one hundred captains were given skill levels proportinate to their combat effectiveness above the 40-60 base level used for the rest of the leaders. The starting experience levels of those 100 vary from 76-94.

Political Point value of each captain is basically their skill level x .1. So a captain with 60 skill level would cost 6 PPs.

Took me all day to create this list but I'm happy with it.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 6/3/2013 6:56:55 AM >

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Post #: 191
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/3/2013 7:35:26 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		DUDE!

Stop procrastinating, and show us some Graf Zeppelin action!

I think political cost is modified by leader rank - and they get promotions over time.


And I do not think you will have any problems with German leaders, because IJN (and actually most nations) have ship captains, land commanders AND air commanders included

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Post #: 192
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/3/2013 8:37:18 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Fun is good - historical pedants are a vocal bunch and you never can tell just how much that butterfly flapped its wings

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Post #: 193
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/4/2013 3:14:47 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

DUDE!

Stop procrastinating, and show us some Graf Zeppelin action!

I think political cost is modified by leader rank - and they get promotions over time.


And I do not think you will have any problems with German leaders, because IJN (and actually most nations) have ship captains, land commanders AND air commanders included


Up until now I've been mostly dabbling over art for the game. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of consensus on alternative ship art so I'm proceeding with what I have so far. I've started delving into the dirty work of adding stuff to the database. 1st thing will be the less glamorous stuff like leaders, pilots and devices. German ship Captains are done, working on getting German air aces incorporating them into the game. Also need some Italians and some German brass. Anyone know of any sites to glean some WW2 Italian names from?

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Post #: 194
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/4/2013 12:40:08 PM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Check the old War in the Mediterranean Mod ( courtesy of Fremen ). Direct links here:

http://mathubert.free.fr/witp_files/WITM%20Ver%201.2b.zip

http://mathubert.free.fr/witp_files/WITM%20Ver%201.22b.zip

It's designed to the vanilla WITP.

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Post #: 195
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/5/2013 3:42:46 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Thanks traskott, I'll check it out.

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Post #: 196
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/9/2013 2:58:19 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Here are a few U-boats for plan 8-8-8. If anyone wants to use these in their own mod, they'll need to paste them on backgrounds themselves.

As always, thank you to the creators of AE ship art. These are also cut and paste jobs from existing AE subs.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 197
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/9/2013 3:34:15 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Another art release. This time here is my Kriegsmarine so far. Again, anyone is free to use these as I've posted them publicly.

Thanks AE team.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 198
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/9/2013 6:03:23 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 
Littorio	9ºDiv	CV Massimo Girosi		Ammiraglio di Divisione Carlo Bergamini(Flag 9ºDiv)
Vittorio Veneto	9ºDiv	CV Giuseppe Spartani (40)		
Roma		CV Adone Del Cima 		
				
Conte di Cavour	5ºDiv	CV Ernesto Ciurlo		
Guilio Cesare	5ºDiv/1 Fleet Flag	CV A.Varoli Piazza(40)		1st Fleet Flag ADM Ingo Campioni; 5ºDiv Flag: Ammiraglio di Divisione Bruno Brivonesi
Andrea Doria	6ºDiv	CV Mario Bussola		No Admiral yet for 6ºDiv
Caio Duilio	6ºDiv	CV Onorato Brugnoli		
				
San Giorgio	Static	CV Stefano Pugliese		
Zara	1ºDiv	C.V. Luigi Corsi		RADM Mateucci (Flag 1a Div)
Fiume	1ºDiv	C.V. Giorgio Giorgis(40)		
Pola	2ºFleet Flag	C.V. Manlio de Pisa(not very healthy)		2^ Squadra (Ammiragli di Squadra Riccardo Paladini)
Gorizia	1ºDiv	CV G.Manfredi(40)		
Bolzano	3ºDiv	F.Maugieri(40)>C.V. RUTA Francesco 6 maggio 1941 al 30 aprile 1942>C.V. MEZZADRA Mario - 1 maggio 1942(3xbad)>C.F. FE' D'OSTIANI Andrea - dal 1 maggio 1942 al 2 gennaio 1943		
Trento	3ºDiv	A.Parmigiano(40)		Ammiraglio di Divisione Carlo Cattaneo(Flag 3ºDiv)
Trieste	3ºDiv	U.Rouselle(40)>Viola(43)		
				
Duca Degli Abruzzi	8ºDiv	CV F.Zannoni		RADM Legnani(8ºDiv Flag)
Giuseppe Garibaldi	8ºDiv	CV Stanislao Caraciotti		
Duca D'Aosta	7ºDiv	CV Franco Rogadeo(Start)		
Eugenio Di Savoia	7ºDiv	CV Lubrano		Ammiraglio di Divisione Sansonetti(7ºDiv Flag)
Raimondo Montecuccoli	7ºDiv	Cv ?		
Muzio Attendolo	7ºDiv	CV Federico Martinengo>CV Mario Schiavuta(42)		
Luigi Cadorna	4ºDiv	CV Polacchini		
Armando Diaz	4ºDiv	CV Francesco Mazzola		
Alberico Da Barbiano	4ºDiv	CV Azzi(40start)>CV Manfredi>CV Rodocannacchi		RADM Marenco(Flag4ºDiv)			
Bartolomeo Colleoni	2ºDiv	CV Umberto Novaro		
Giovanni dalle Bande Nere	2ºDiv	CV Franco Maugeri>C.V. Ludovico Sitta		RADM Marenco(Flag 4ºDiv) 
Alberto Di Guissano	4ºDiv	CV Giuseppe Maroni Ponti>CV Giovanni Marabotto		
Attilio Regolo		CV M.Notarbartolo


< Message edited by Dili -- 6/9/2013 6:20:43 AM >

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Post #: 199
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/9/2013 6:17:17 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Data is for 10 June 1940 numbers 40,41,42,43 designates the years new Captains arrived for some ships i discovered.
For Each Division there is an Admiral or Rear Admiral. There are 2 fleets. You can see the flag of first fleet in BB Cesare which was also had 5ºDiv Flag. The second fleet is in the cruiser Pola that doesn't belong to any Division. This kind of organization is due to the fact that in 10 June 1940 Italian only had Cavour and Cesare ready for combat. The D's and the Littorios were in training phase.


Italian Ranks.

http://www.regiamarina.net/detail_text.asp?nid=138

If you want i can bring for minor ships, submarines too.


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Post #: 200
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/9/2013 10:46:19 AM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		Good work boys.

Gary, the DD art is for 1936 Class Zerstorers ?

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Post #: 201
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/9/2013 9:47:04 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Correction:

Captain for CL Duca Degli Abruzzi was c.v. Pietro Parenti

c.v. Franco Zannoni was in CL Raimondo Montecuccoli

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Post #: 202
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/10/2013 12:19:49 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: traskott

Good work boys.

Gary, the DD art is for 1936 Class Zerstorers ?


Hi Traskott,

The DDs are pretty much my own confabulations, not meant to represent actual DDs of WW2.

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Post #: 203
RE: Creating the Kriegsmarine Leaders - 6/10/2013 12:20:43 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Much thanks for the link Dili! Do you know off hand where I can find some names for Italian pilots?

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Post #: 204
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/10/2013 2:13:08 AM   
dwg

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon
An even more formal and in-depth analysis is in Fleet Tactics: Theory and Practice, Wayne P. Hughes, Jr, Naval Institute Press, 1986. Highly recommended.


Think I've got that one tucked away on the bookshelves somewhere. I'll have to have a look.

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Post #: 205
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/10/2013 4:59:32 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Another U-Boat, type XXI. Free for anyone to use.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 206
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/11/2013 12:05:27 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.betasom.it/forum/index.php?showtopic=25666 All squadron and group commanders

Biplane aces
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/italy.htm (you have to check those that went to II War)

Aces
http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/ww2ita.htm

There was also a rare kind of ace
Pietro Bonannini. He served as gunner in naval search floatplanes.

< Message edited by Dili -- 6/11/2013 12:18:11 PM >

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Post #: 207
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/12/2013 3:08:36 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Awesome, Thanks Dili! That should be enough names for my Italians.

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Post #: 208
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/12/2013 9:12:11 AM   
traskott


Posts: 1546
Joined: 6/23/2008
From: Valladolid, Spain
Status: offline 		@Gary: What class is the CA Dresden ?

Thanks

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Post #: 209
RE: Alternative Cruiser Design Theory - 6/27/2013 12:22:39 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		Bippity, bumpity, boo!

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Post #: 210
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