Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Sure, it was a glorious display of big gun firepower (the likes of which the world will never see again). But the mortal blow to the Japanese battleline had already been done.

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
At Surigao Straight, the old BBs that were equipped with the very sophisticated MK 8 fire control system did all the shooting and hitting. Those ships using the older MK 3 system might as well have been sitting at the dock for all they were worth.

While this comparison (Mk 3 v. the Mk 8 equipped BBs) is correct and true, it still misses the mark. The greatest impact at Surigao wasn't a surfeit of big gunned battlewagons lobbing hundreds of shells.

The biggest impact at Surigao was the functional torpedoes of the Desrons that attacked the Japanese battleline. A successful surprise attack with functional torpedoes ripped the Fuso in half, damaged Yamashiro and damaged or sank 3 of the Japanese DDs, if memory suits.

Oldendorf's battleships were cleaning up the scraps at that point. Sure, it was a glorious display of big gun firepower (the likes of which the world will never see again). But the mortal blow to the Japanese battleline had already been done.

ETA: Corrected BB names.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
At Surigao Straight, the old BBs that were equipped with the very sophisticated MK 8 fire control system did all the shooting and hitting. Those ships using the older MK 3 system might as well have been sitting at the dock for all they were worth.

While this comparison (Mk 3 v. the Mk 8 equipped BBs) is correct and true, it still misses the mark. The greatest impact at Surigao wasn't a surfeit of big gunned battlewagons lobbing hundreds of shells.

The biggest impact at Surigao was the functional torpedoes of the Desrons that attacked the Japanese battleline. A successful surprise attack with functional torpedoes ripped the Fuso in half, damaged Yamashiro and damaged or sank 3 of the Japanese DDs, if memory suits.

Oldendorf's battleships were cleaning up the scraps at that point. Sure, it was a glorious display of big gun firepower (the likes of which the world will never see again). But the mortal blow to the Japanese battleline had already been done.

ETA: Corrected BB names.

Yes, and it should be noted that what working radar the Japanese had at Surigao failed to detect these attacks or the earlier PT attacks. Yes, Japanese ships had radar, but it never was much of anything.

My point about Surigao is the difference between the modern fire control systems and radar systems of the two combatants.

At 03:16, West Virginia's radar picked up the surviving ships of Nishimura's force at a range of 42,000 yd (38,000 m) and had achieved a firing solution at 30,000 yd (27,000 m). West Virginia tracked them as they approached in the pitch black night. At 03:53, she fired the eight 16 in (410 mm) guns of her main battery at a range of 22,800 yd (20,800 m), striking Yamashiro with her first salvo.


Using modern radar and the Mk8 fire control system the West Virginia fired and hit with her very first salvo at over "twelve miles" away. Something that neither side could have pulled off in 1943. I don't know how this translates in game terms but the gulf between the two surface forces had by the time of this battle had become too large for the Japanese to overcome. Technology allowed for the Allies to lengthen the range of engagement to the point where the long lance was no longer a factor.

If anything, I think the game is overly generous to late war Japanese surface forces, but don't really mind due to the fun factor. I have to admit. I love a good surface mix up more than a carrier fight....

quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

80/53/+11

83/50/+10

More of CR's creepy arithmetic!

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ORIGINAL: Nemo121

I'll take a stab at this.... The first number has been slowly increasing, the second number decreasing by the same amount so they clearly must represent readiness levels. Right now 83 of whatever are ready/in position while 50 aren't. My guess is the third number is the countdown to when whatever it is will be unleashed.

The other alternative is that it represents a distance countdown, 83 hexes travelled, 50 to go. The relatively steady rate of increase of the 1st number ( 3 per game day ) seems to argue for something like that but then the +10 doesn't make sense as, at a rate of 3 hexes per day, whatever it is won't reach 133/0 @ +0.

So, I'm guessing an accounting of units/ships ready to do something as well as your ETA for whenever that something will happen. At this rate the 10th November 1942 should be fairly interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Here's the entire progression of numbers as best that I can see. They are listed in game date order:

10/22: 37
10/23: 42
10/24: 48
10/25: 56
10/26: 59
10/27: 64
10/28: 71
10/29: 77/57
10/30: 80/53+11
10/31: 83/50+10

Back on 10/22, CR was holding his invasion TFs in the "black hole" west of New Zealand. On the 23 his post indicates that all ships are in place and he was waiting to be sure the KB was far away. Sure looks like a countdown of some sort.

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ORIGINAL: Cribtop

My gut is not entirely sanguine about this. John has 9 days to react, we know at least some of the target bases are well defended, and it's still 1942. If KB is anywhere nearby and John assembles a bunch of LBA, things could get bloody, CR. Then again, if KB is too far away, you should pull this off with acceptable losses. 9 days is a long time, though.

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ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

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ORIGINAL: Cribtop

My gut is not entirely sanguine about this. John has 9 days to react, we know at least some of the target bases are well defended, and it's still 1942. If KB is anywhere nearby and John assembles a bunch of LBA, things could get bloody, CR. Then again, if KB is too far away, you should pull this off with acceptable losses. 9 days is a long time, though.

+1 Dan

The KB will win a CV match in late 42 8-out-of-10 times. Be carefull

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
SWPac: The huge concentration of amphibious ships continues up the east coast of Oz, drawing some detection for several TFs. The carriers are trailing by ten hexes to guard against ambush.

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ORIGINAL: paullus99

I betcha John will be itching for a fight based on his recent reverse in the Indian Ocean....if you can get him into a fight on your terms, you'll be in good shape.

Just don't let him pull an 8-hex strike on you, if you can avoid it. That's what kept killing Andy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

My gut is not entirely sanguine about this. John has 9 days to react, we know at least some of the target bases are well defended, and it's still 1942. If KB is anywhere nearby and John assembles a bunch of LBA, things could get bloody, CR. Then again, if KB is too far away, you should pull this off with acceptable losses. 9 days is a long time, though.

+1 Dan

The KB will win a CV match in late 42 8-out-of-10 times. Be carefull