Sub Question Early Game

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Sub Question Early Game

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Sub Question Early Game

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 7:55:28 AM

DHRedge

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline

Been thinking about various possible moves and counter moves in some future PBEM game, and subs come to mind.

There are a few allied subs in the Philippines, do most allied players always play them up near Japan to hit shipping, or are there any other strategies some have used them for.

Early game there is not much offense for the allies, but the subs, they can do something.

Has anyone instead used them to go against various anphib transports further south?
Protection of the inevitable landings in Philippines, or of any oil areas?
And while hitting areas off of Japan would seem to be best shipping interdiction,
wouldn't it be more effective to place them where you would know the oil was shipping from,
to make sure they are hitting tankers and not resource or supply boats?

Curious different ways people use subs on the Allied side early game.

Post #: 1

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 8:33:40 AM

tigercub

Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline

Well if a sub hits a fully laden AP or AK they can realy make a mess...i would be sitting around places i know he will be soon..if there is lots of DD ASW give that spot a miss...hit and move on, as a japanese player too have a AK Sunk filled with men freaks me out...off japan early is not a bad option....but you do know he wants the OIL badly.

Tigercub

_____________________________

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to DHRedge)

Post #: 2

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 8:46:29 AM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

Some prefer using newer US subs with their dud rate for two missions:
Mine laying
Supply transport

_____________________________

(in reply to tigercub)

Post #: 3

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 8:55:15 AM

DHRedge

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Some prefer using newer US subs with their dud rate for two missions:
Mine laying
Supply transport

Good point.

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 4

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 8:57:13 AM

DHRedge

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

Well if a sub hits a fully laden AP or AK they can realy make a mess...i would be sitting around places i know he will be soon..if there is lots of DD ASW give that spot a miss...hit and move on, as a japanese player too have a AK Sunk filled with men freaks me out...off japan early is not a bad option....but you do know he wants the OIL badly.

Tigercub

Playing against AI, as Japan, when troops ships are hit it is disturbing, I use multiple ships even if not needed because it is so disturbing, that is what I was wondering.

(in reply to tigercub)

Post #: 5

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 6:06:55 PM

Justus2

Posts: 729
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Some prefer using newer US subs with their dud rate for two missions:
Mine laying
Supply transport

I would also add Early Warning. I tend to use the starting fleet boats (longer range, but high dud rate) around Japan as well as likely major ports (Cam Ranh Bay, Shanghai, Babeldaob). They wont get many hits, but they will keep the IJN honest with escorts, and get an occasional lucky strike (I got a hit on Shokaku returning from the opening PH strike as it approached Japan in my current game). I also use them to patrol the Kuriles and various areas in CENPAC as early warning, to detect enemy shipping.

The older 'S' class boats, with shorter range but better torps (and the good Dutch boats) I use to disrupt potential landing sites in the Phillipines and DEI.

_____________________________

Playing/Learning Shadow Empire

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 6

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/26/2013 6:33:40 PM

DHRedge

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justus2

I would also add Early Warning. I tend to use the starting fleet boats (longer range, but high dud rate) around Japan as well as likely major ports (Cam Ranh Bay, Shanghai, Babeldaob). They wont get many hits, but they will keep the IJN honest with escorts, and get an occasional lucky strike (I got a hit on Shokaku returning from the opening PH strike as it approached Japan in my current game). I also use them to patrol the Kuriles and various areas in CENPAC as early warning, to detect enemy shipping.

The older 'S' class boats, with shorter range but better torps (and the good Dutch boats) I use to disrupt potential landing sites in the Phillipines and DEI.

The idea of playing PBEM, and playing against AI, is much different, when learning the game, I played the first month a few times, and, noticed the pattern of AI subs, when playing a person, it is not learning a pattern, since people will adjust more then an AI.

So been trying to think on what Allies might try to do, and the idea of subs being anywhere, does as you say, keep the player honest, making sure all convoys are escorted and extra transports are used in anphibs to lower losses if a ship is hit.

I actually think the doolittle raid on Japan was that same thing. If the home islands are hit, Japan would then have to pull some assets from front lines to cover home islands and search seas out from home islands. Such an attack makes them have to patrol rear areas also, in part to take forces from advanced positions.

(in reply to Justus2)

Post #: 7

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/27/2013 12:02:12 PM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

The Dutch and S class US boats are your "offensive" weapons to actively go after the Japanese. Your US "Fleet" boats are your pickets. If they hit something, so much the better, but you don't count on it. I also leave a boat of two around Japan and hope they hit something to remind the Japanese player to keep back ASW assets "or else." But as stated above one of the really good uses of the "Fleet" boats is mining. A field once "hit" will be swept but the whole idea is to keep the Japanese player off balance and retaining assets in "back" waters. Of course all this changes dramatically in terms of numbers if the Jap player goes after Manila rather than Pearl. Hal

_____________________________

(in reply to DHRedge)

Post #: 8

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/27/2013 5:33:13 PM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline

Even if the fleet boats don't succeed because of their torp problems, they are still gaining EXP, in addition to forcing escorted convoys, giving info on supply routes, forcing fuel expenditure as convoys move to avoid them, etc. When they get good torps, that EXP gain will be put to good use.

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 9

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/27/2013 6:41:42 PM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

I always initially use them for Amphibious TF interdiction. Early war ASW is so bad, that you can safely even keep your subs in shallow water, when Japanese transports unload.

In theory, you should use your US subs, with bad torpedoes to hunt unescorted transports (so they use their guns). And most severe blow would be to sink loaded tankers, which deliver fuel to newly conquered Japanese bases far south (like Tarawa, or Rabaul), but this is lots of micro-management, and guessing. Anything sunk in DEI can be replaced in few days.

(in reply to DHRedge)

Post #: 10

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/28/2013 6:06:21 AM

rms1pa

Posts: 370
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

I always initially use them for Amphibious TF interdiction. Early war ASW is so bad, that you can safely even keep your subs in shallow water, when Japanese transports unload.

In theory, you should use your US subs, with bad torpedoes to hunt unescorted transports (so they use their guns). And most severe blow would be to sink loaded tankers, which deliver fuel to newly conquered Japanese bases far south (like Tarawa, or Rabaul), but this is lots of micro-management, and guessing. Anything sunk in DEI can be replaced in few days.

love to sink the IJA LSD's,only 2 of them i believe.

rms/pa

_____________________________

there is a technical term for those who confuse the opinions of an author's characters for the opinions of the author.
the term is IDIOT.

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 11

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/28/2013 9:29:26 AM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rms1pa

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

I always initially use them for Amphibious TF interdiction. Early war ASW is so bad, that you can safely even keep your subs in shallow water, when Japanese transports unload.

In theory, you should use your US subs, with bad torpedoes to hunt unescorted transports (so they use their guns). And most severe blow would be to sink loaded tankers, which deliver fuel to newly conquered Japanese bases far south (like Tarawa, or Rabaul), but this is lots of micro-management, and guessing. Anything sunk in DEI can be replaced in few days.

love to sink the IJA LSD's,only 2 of them i believe.

rms/pa

There are 2 or 3 max... and in my experience, these are torpedo magnets... I don't know how or why, but it doesn't matter how many escorts I use, they always get the torpedo,

_____________________________

(in reply to rms1pa)

Post #: 12

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 6/29/2013 9:41:06 AM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

quote:

ORIGINAL: rms1pa

love to sink the IJA LSD's,only 2 of them i believe.

rms/pa

There are 2 or 3 max... and in my experience, these are torpedo magnets... I don't know how or why, but it doesn't matter how many escorts I use, they always get the torpedo,

Submarine detection seems to be based on number of ASW weapons, so this is more problem of number of those weapons on your escorts (to detect, before it attacks), than sheer number of escorts.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 13

RE: Sub Question Early Game - 7/2/2013 1:29:03 AM

tiemanjw

Posts: 580
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

I put a wolf pack east, one north, and one west of the Phillipines. I was hoping for a transport or 2. I got a light carrier in the east. Then I got big ideas and started hunting the KB as he moved in to support the takeover of the Dutch East Indies. I managed to bag the Akagi and one other big carrier. So even with the high dud rate, they can be effective. I would say keep them in packs, anticipate his moves (those confimed waters make this easier), and hope for some luck.

< Message edited by tiemanj -- 7/2/2013 1:43:01 AM >

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 14