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OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 7:47:26 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
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Status: offline 		This is supposedly the destroyer Admiral Vinogradov. Anyone know what the huge tubes are?





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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 7:50:20 PM   
Shellshock


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Status: offline 		I'm no expert, but likely they are silos for Sunburn anti-ship missiles.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:01:47 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		I think you have the wrong name. Your pic is not of an Udaloy or Udaloy II. And Admiral V's hull number is 572.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 7/3/2013 8:03:15 PM >

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:02:18 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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Status: offline 		Yep, ASMs.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:06:13 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		It's the Varyag, and someone called it a carrier killer.

The Guided Missle Cruiser Varyag. Here's some shots of her visiting SF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsmv561OF2A

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 7/3/2013 8:09:38 PM >

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:08:35 PM   
Terminus


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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:08:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

It's the Varyag, and someone called it a carrier killer.


d

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 7/3/2013 8:10:24 PM >

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:10:31 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The sailors are Chinese.


This pic came from a story about Russian/Chinese maneuvers.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:11:43 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		It's the Varyag alright. Hull number 011. Used to be called the Chervona Ukraina back in the day.

The old Varyag was a Kuznetzov-class carrier, hence my confusion. More than a few renamings after the USSR broke up.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 7/3/2013 8:14:11 PM >

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:12:46 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Not the Varyag. Her freeboard is much too low. It looks like an old Slava-class.


011 Is the Varyag's number, check the link I left above

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:14:37 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Note that I edited my post.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:16:49 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		The missile tubes are for the P-500 missile (NATO codename Sandbox).

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:20:09 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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Status: offline 		Looks like they're 4 feet across. That would ruin your day.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:23:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Not the Varyag. Her freeboard is much too low. It looks like an old Slava-class.


011 Is the Varyag's number, check the link I left above



Yes, it is the Varyag, a Slava-class. In my day the intel name was BLACKCOM I. (Black Sea Combatant I)

She's old now. Has had a very checkered career with reduced manning, pierside stand-downs, delayed upgrades, and all of the nice tings that happened to the Red Navy after the USSR fell apart. The class was designed in the 60s-70s to challenge USN carriers in the Atlantic. Today I think she'd fail at that task pretty quickly.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/3/2013 8:24:11 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Looks like they're 4 feet across. That would ruin your day.


Bigger does not mean better.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/4/2013 3:09:59 AM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Looks like they're 4 feet across. That would ruin your day.


Bigger does not mean better.


Bullwinkle, why'd you have to bring in personal stuff?

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/4/2013 8:47:17 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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Status: offline 		The SS-N-12 'Sandbox' has a 2,205 lb warhead. with a range of 380nmi. Impressive

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/4/2013 10:17:10 PM   
czert2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Looks like they're 4 feet across. That would ruin your day.


Bigger does not mean better.

Well, properly modernized why not ? I think they will be realy BIG deal.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/4/2013 10:25:57 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
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Status: offline 		The Sandbox is 40 years old, and sodding enormous. The USN has the measure of it by now.

Newer, smaller systems like Oniks, Klub or Kh-35 are better.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 7/4/2013 10:27:04 PM >

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/5/2013 2:42:17 PM   
sandman455


Posts: 209
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Status: offline 		The issues of hitting surface ships with missiles over the horizon is much more challenging than one would think. Without giving away too much, you should try to ponder how such missiles would be targetted both initially, mid course and finally on terminal phase. Once you get that sorted out, you are ready to proceed to the many methods of defeating them - besides just being lazy and shooting them down. Of course I can't think of anything easier than simply destroying the platform from which they are launched. It's hard being a CARGRU commander - so many options and command decisions to be made.

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RE: OT Admiral Vinogradov - 7/5/2013 6:02:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman455

The issues of hitting surface ships with missiles over the horizon is much more challenging than one would think. Without giving away too much, you should try to ponder how such missiles would be targetted both initially, mid course and finally on terminal phase. Once you get that sorted out, you are ready to proceed to the many methods of defeating them - besides just being lazy and shooting them down. Of course I can't think of anything easier than simply destroying the platform from which they are launched. It's hard being a CARGRU commander - so many options and command decisions to be made.


You're right that talking about this in open media is often a no-no. From your sig line you know a lot about it.

Folks who haven't studied Soviet design philosophy much often become enamored by bigger=better. In truth the Soviets were very good at making big things go fast. Foxbat, Alfa, many cruise missiles, etc. But a reason they did that was because they were so lacking in the real currency of modern naval warfare--data collection, processing, and battlefield distribution of same. Their cruise missiles were big because they were crude. The mid-course guidance problem was always going to be dicey because Bear Ds shoot down real good, and the missiles' terminal homing hardware and software was a generation or more behind NATO all the way through. Their missiles were big in order to carry big warheads because they knew they'd miss a lot. They designed for the miss. A 2000lb warhead moving at Mach 2 can miss by a fair bit and still mess up a REFORGER RO-RO. If they'd have had decent computing power they could have designed the Exocet or the Harpoon. Small, agile, mission-killers. Small gets you reloads, and a mission kill will do in a 30-60 day war. The USN tried naval Tomahawks too, but settled on them being fine land-attack weapons. Major SAM sites don't up and move like ships do.

A big missile has a huge radar cross-section, and it eats up deck space. Soviet skimmers were mostly one-shot weapons in the Cold War. And liquid fuel? Arrgh. Japanese players in AE know how well that worked out for the Long Lance.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 7/5/2013 6:04:08 PM >

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