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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 12:31:38 PM

fodder

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INP!

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Post #: 20461

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:16:59 PM

AW1Steve

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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Steve,

I'm finishing up the second volume of Clair's "Hitler's U-boat War". It's an 800 page slog, but interesting. He reviews the Metox usage and German's beliefs that they were being detected, whereas in reality, they were not. The second volume was written in this decade, IIRC.

I'm comfortable with his research on the matter and the conclusions that he draws from that, but I'm open to an even better countervailing opinion, if one exists.

OK. I've not read Blair's later stuff, (only his earlier) , and I can accept your (and his) opinion on this. In my electronic warfare courses in the 1980's Metox was always used as an example of the importance of being careful with ESM/other electronic systems. This is another example of the myth having a longer term effect than the truth. Herbert Werner in "Iron coffins" goes heavily into how mistrusted the system was by U-boat crews (he was writing in the early 1970's).

This might be a subject that I'll want to research and get back to (sometime in the future) you all about.

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Post #: 20462

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:18:33 PM

Terminus

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Welp, just sent my first article to The Wargamer. Now to see precisely how much editing it'll need...

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Post #: 20463

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:25:19 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
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Good morning - Tithe.

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Post #: 20464

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:25:35 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Welp, just sent my first article to The Wargamer. Now to see precisely how much editing it'll need...

Very cool!

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

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Post #: 20465

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:34:46 PM

Dixie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Welp, just sent my first article to The Wargamer. Now to see precisely how much editing it'll need...

Good work T. What's it about?

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Post #: 20466

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:36:08 PM

Dixie

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The Falklands holiday has been delayed. The earliest I'll be heading out is March with an expected date of July. Which means I'll miss our wedding anniversary and Josh's first day of school

But I'll be home for the World Cup. Which may not be a good thing.

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Post #: 20467

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 2:38:23 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Welp, just sent my first article to The Wargamer. Now to see precisely how much editing it'll need...

Good work T. What's it about?

The battle of Tsushima.

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Post #: 20468

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 3:11:56 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Welp, just sent my first article to The Wargamer. Now to see precisely how much editing it'll need...

Good work T. What's it about?

The battle of Tsushima.

Nice!

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Post #: 20469

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 3:17:14 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Steve,

I'm finishing up the second volume of Clair's "Hitler's U-boat War". It's an 800 page slog, but interesting. He reviews the Metox usage and German's beliefs that they were being detected, whereas in reality, they were not. The second volume was written in this decade, IIRC.

I'm comfortable with his research on the matter and the conclusions that he draws from that, but I'm open to an even better countervailing opinion, if one exists.

OK. I've not read Blair's later stuff, (only his earlier) , and I can accept your (and his) opinion on this. In my electronic warfare courses in the 1980's Metox was always used as an example of the importance of being careful with ESM/other electronic systems. This is another example of the myth having a longer term effect than the truth. Herbert Werner in "Iron coffins" goes heavily into how mistrusted the system was by U-boat crews (he was writing in the early 1970's).

This might be a subject that I'll want to research and get back to (sometime in the future) you all about.

If you need references from Blair's stuff, I'll happily provide.

ETA: Your unearthed arcana about BTC (bombing through cloud) and video of declassified training on how to use ground-mapping radar in the B29 was an eye opener for me and made me change my tune about mid-late war night bombing. I'd genuinely like to see any cool primary references that you can provide (without having to shoot me immediately afterwards

) that elucidate the Metox issue further. It could very well be that what you were taught was ground truth and Blair was full of ****. Always possible.

Video of Leigh Light airborne ASW attacks on U-boats would also be welcome.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 7/10/2013 3:21:39 PM >

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Post #: 20470

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 3:19:43 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Steve,

I'm finishing up the second volume of Clair's "Hitler's U-boat War". It's an 800 page slog, but interesting. He reviews the Metox usage and German's beliefs that they were being detected, whereas in reality, they were not. The second volume was written in this decade, IIRC.

I'm comfortable with his research on the matter and the conclusions that he draws from that, but I'm open to an even better countervailing opinion, if one exists.

OK. I've not read Blair's later stuff, (only his earlier) , and I can accept your (and his) opinion on this. In my electronic warfare courses in the 1980's Metox was always used as an example of the importance of being careful with ESM/other electronic systems. This is another example of the myth having a longer term effect than the truth. Herbert Werner in "Iron coffins" goes heavily into how mistrusted the system was by U-boat crews (he was writing in the early 1970's).

This might be a subject that I'll want to research and get back to (sometime in the future) you all about.

If you need references from Blair's stuff, I'll happily provide.

In two to three months I'd appreciate that. It will take me that long to unpack, organize and set up my books and research "stuff". Not to mention have time enough to take a breath.

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Post #: 20471

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 3:22:37 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Steve,

I'm finishing up the second volume of Clair's "Hitler's U-boat War". It's an 800 page slog, but interesting. He reviews the Metox usage and German's beliefs that they were being detected, whereas in reality, they were not. The second volume was written in this decade, IIRC.

I'm comfortable with his research on the matter and the conclusions that he draws from that, but I'm open to an even better countervailing opinion, if one exists.

OK. I've not read Blair's later stuff, (only his earlier) , and I can accept your (and his) opinion on this. In my electronic warfare courses in the 1980's Metox was always used as an example of the importance of being careful with ESM/other electronic systems. This is another example of the myth having a longer term effect than the truth. Herbert Werner in "Iron coffins" goes heavily into how mistrusted the system was by U-boat crews (he was writing in the early 1970's).

This might be a subject that I'll want to research and get back to (sometime in the future) you all about.

If you need references from Blair's stuff, I'll happily provide.

In two to three months I'd appreciate that. It will take me that long to unpack, organize and set up my books and research "stuff". Not to mention have time enough to take a breath.

Not to mention return the turn?

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Post #: 20472

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 3:28:00 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Steve,

I'm finishing up the second volume of Clair's "Hitler's U-boat War". It's an 800 page slog, but interesting. He reviews the Metox usage and German's beliefs that they were being detected, whereas in reality, they were not. The second volume was written in this decade, IIRC.

I'm comfortable with his research on the matter and the conclusions that he draws from that, but I'm open to an even better countervailing opinion, if one exists.

OK. I've not read Blair's later stuff, (only his earlier) , and I can accept your (and his) opinion on this. In my electronic warfare courses in the 1980's Metox was always used as an example of the importance of being careful with ESM/other electronic systems. This is another example of the myth having a longer term effect than the truth. Herbert Werner in "Iron coffins" goes heavily into how mistrusted the system was by U-boat crews (he was writing in the early 1970's).

This might be a subject that I'll want to research and get back to (sometime in the future) you all about.

If you need references from Blair's stuff, I'll happily provide.

In two to three months I'd appreciate that. It will take me that long to unpack, organize and set up my books and research "stuff". Not to mention have time enough to take a breath.

Not to mention return the turn?

There's a turn?

I'm sorry. I'll do what I can. In two weeks I'll be living in a hotel. Maybe I can make the turns up to you.

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Post #: 20473

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 3:51:24 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Hey Shani-

NoDak came in 3rd on CNBC's list of states that are the best places to do business this year.

SoDak was number 1. Nebraska and Texas also on the central corridor ranked #4 and 2, respectively. Utah and Virginia were tied for 5th place. Virginia was the only coastal state in the top 5.

Some of the worst states? No surprise-West Virginia, Ohio and the usual NE suspects.

Anyways, here's to the central Midwest corridor. Gettin' it done for bidness.

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Post #: 20474

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 4:16:24 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
There's a turn? I'm sorry. I'll do what I can. In two weeks I'll be living in a hotel. Maybe I can make the turns up to you.

Hey Steve-o. I uploaded the latest turn 5-7 days ago.

I know you're in the midst of a very chaotic period now, so don't sweat it. You've many other issues on your plate.

From the purely self-serving JFB POV, June 1-2 1942 represents a *lot* of housekeeping-beaucoup ship upgrades, new plane models (including the Ki-44 IIa

) coming online and various and sundry ship upgrades. So, if I could get to this point, it would keep me busy whilest you were in the midst of your move. But this is just FYI-not trying to press the issue.

How long will you be 'hotelling' it?

On an entirely unrelated matter, I see that Illinois just passed conceal and carry laws! Whoda thunk it! Check it out: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/09/illinois-becomes-last-state-in-nation-to-allow-concealed-carry/

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Post #: 20475

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 4:24:14 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hey Shani-

NoDak came in 3rd on CNBC's list of states that are the best places to do business this year.

SoDak was number 1. Nebraska and Texas also on the central corridor ranked #4 and 2, respectively. Utah and Virginia were tied for 5th place. Virginia was the only coastal state in the top 5.

Some of the worst states? No surprise-West Virginia, Ohio and the usual NE suspects.

Anyways, here's to the central Midwest corridor. Gettin' it done for bidness.

And Moorhead made us take our billboard down on I-94. 'North Dakota - Open for Business'. Well I guess it was on the Minnesota side of the river. Moved it to the Downer exit East of Moorhead. They made us take it down again. There is just no pleasing those guys.

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Post #: 20476

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 4:27:49 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hey Shani-

NoDak came in 3rd on CNBC's list of states that are the best places to do business this year.

SoDak was number 1. Nebraska and Texas also on the central corridor ranked #4 and 2, respectively. Utah and Virginia were tied for 5th place. Virginia was the only coastal state in the top 5.

Some of the worst states? No surprise-West Virginia, Ohio and the usual NE suspects.

Anyways, here's to the central Midwest corridor. Gettin' it done for bidness.

And Moorhead made us take our billboard down on I-94. 'North Dakota - Open for Business'. Well I guess it was on the Minnesota side of the river. Moved it to the Downer exit East of Moorhead. They made us take it down again. There is just no pleasing those guys.

So why did you move it after the second location-the one on your side of the river? City council for Fargo needs to grow a pair.

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Post #: 20477

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 4:29:34 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Shani-I'll admit that "North Dakota-Open for Business" is an improvement over your previous state motto: "North Dakota-Please oh Please! Won't SOMEONE Come Here for Business?"

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Post #: 20478

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 4:32:36 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
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From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline

Or the sign on the Montana border. 'Stay in North Dakota - Custer was healthy when he left'.

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Post #: 20479

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 4:40:38 PM

Schanilec

Posts: 4040
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From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline

A couple of months back there a commission to increase tourism. My first thought 'At gun point'.

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Post #: 20480

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 5:59:17 PM

Kwik E Mart

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...tithe...

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Post #: 20481

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 6:03:12 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ETA: Your unearthed arcana about BTC (bombing through cloud) and video of declassified training on how to use ground-mapping radar in the B29 was an eye opener for me and made me change my tune about mid-late war night bombing.

Video of Leigh Light airborne ASW attacks on U-boats would also be welcome.

I don't recall this at all...

Can you please provide link(s)?

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 20482

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 6:05:35 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ETA: Your unearthed arcana about BTC (bombing through cloud) and video of declassified training on how to use ground-mapping radar in the B29 was an eye opener for me and made me change my tune about mid-late war night bombing.

Video of Leigh Light airborne ASW attacks on U-boats would also be welcome.

I don't recall this at all...

Can you please provide link(s)?

Leo "Apollo11"

Hi Leo,

Steve provided me with some links to some cool primary sources regarding B29 bombing through clouds and radar bombing of targets at night. I'll let him repost as he sees fit.

Regards,

Andre.

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Post #: 20483

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 7:02:04 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

History made by the USN: First unmanned aircraft (X-47B) just successfully landed on an aircraft carrier underway at sea.

Sorry, Steve-o: You've been replaced with a circuit board. All hail our new computer overlords.

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Post #: 20484

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 7:34:01 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ETA: Your unearthed arcana about BTC (bombing through cloud) and video of declassified training on how to use ground-mapping radar in the B29 was an eye opener for me and made me change my tune about mid-late war night bombing.

Video of Leigh Light airborne ASW attacks on U-boats would also be welcome.

I don't recall this at all...

Can you please provide link(s)?

Leo "Apollo11"

Hi Leo,

Steve provided me with some links to some cool primary sources regarding B29 bombing through clouds and radar bombing of targets at night. I'll let him repost as he sees fit.

Regards,

Andre.

Feel free. I'm a little too rushed right now to find it, it might be weeks till I can get to it.

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Post #: 20485

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 7:37:34 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ETA: Your unearthed arcana about BTC (bombing through cloud) and video of declassified training on how to use ground-mapping radar in the B29 was an eye opener for me and made me change my tune about mid-late war night bombing.

Video of Leigh Light airborne ASW attacks on U-boats would also be welcome.

I don't recall this at all...

Can you please provide link(s)?

Leo "Apollo11"

Hi Leo,

Steve provided me with some links to some cool primary sources regarding B29 bombing through clouds and radar bombing of targets at night. I'll let him repost as he sees fit.

Regards,

Andre.

Feel free . It will probably be weeks till I can get to it.

_____________________________

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Post #: 20486

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 7:42:24 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

History made by the USN: First unmanned aircraft (X-47B) just successfully landed on an aircraft carrier underway at sea.

Sorry, Steve-o: You've been replaced with a circuit board. All hail our new computer overlords.

1st off, I retired 13 years ago. 2nd (and they already replaced me with 18 year old high school cheerleader!)

, you mean my CHAFFEUR has been replaced by a circuit board. When the electronics can replace someone doing on board analysis , then you are right. (I think that day is coming). Frankly , the only problem I have with drones, is that there is always someone smarter than you who will eventually hack into the system and use it against you.

This subject always makes me think of the old Chevy Chase movie, "Sale of the Century". "GREAT DAY FOR THE NAVY!" "Why admiral, the Navy didn't buy any"? ""Right, and the Air Force bought 300!".

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 7/10/2013 7:44:49 PM >

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Post #: 20487

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 7:50:00 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

History made by the USN: First unmanned aircraft (X-47B) just successfully landed on an aircraft carrier underway at sea.

Sorry, Steve-o: You've been replaced with a circuit board. All hail our new computer overlords.

1st off, I retired 13 years ago. 2nd (and they already replaced me with 18 year old high school cheerleader!) , you mean my CHAFFEUR has been replaced by a circuit board. When the electronics can replace someone doing on board analysis , then you are right. (I think that day is coming). Frankly , the only problem I have with drones, is that there is always someone smarter than you who will eventually hack into the system and use it against you.

This subject always makes me think of the old Chevy Chase movie, "Sale of the Century". "GREAT DAY FOR THE NAVY!" "Why admiral, the Navy didn't buy any"? ""Right, and the Air Force bought 300!".

Like Steve EVER landed on an aircraft carrier!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 20488

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 8:39:31 PM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

1st off, I retired 13 years ago. 2nd (and they already replaced me with 18 year old high school cheerleader!) , you mean my CHAFFEUR has been replaced by a circuit board. When the electronics can replace someone doing on board analysis , then you are right. (I think that day is coming). Frankly , the only problem I have with drones, is that there is always someone smarter than you who will eventually hack into the system and use it against you.

To do your job all they need is some sort of device to shake a magic 8-ball

And a bag of cement to act as ballast.

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Post #: 20489

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 7/10/2013 9:11:06 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

1st off, I retired 13 years ago. 2nd (and they already replaced me with 18 year old high school cheerleader!) , you mean my CHAFFEUR has been replaced by a circuit board. When the electronics can replace someone doing on board analysis , then you are right. (I think that day is coming). Frankly , the only problem I have with drones, is that there is always someone smarter than you who will eventually hack into the system and use it against you.

To do your job all they need is some sort of device to shake a magic 8-ball And a bag of cement to act as ballast.