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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV

 
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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/5/2013 8:57:19 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		DV is clumping his army groups together like lumps of mucus fouling the lungs of Mother Russia. Hitman made the same error. I think it's a sign of lack of confidence like 'holding onto nurse for fear of finding something worse.'

The psychological aspect of this game is often overlooked. As some may know, I have an academic background in psychology so I find it interesting even if no one else does. In almost all competitive activity, success both requires and brings confidence. The less successful and therefore less confident player will therefore do worse against a successful player than one would expect. This then magnifies the success of the of the successful making harder for others to beat them: unless the 'others' are not psychologically a bit intimidated at the start.

Pelton's game against MT was a disappointment as I don't think P played well. He now says it was a sandbox game. In the way he played or in the 'sandbox' decision I suspect Pelton was not his usual confident self and that contributed to his poor '41.That's not to take anything away from MT's performance.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 7/6/2013 6:30:23 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/5/2013 9:38:30 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		I'd agree completely with the psychological aspect, esp with PBEM and the surrounding correspondence.

I played a RuS PBEM where one of my opponents became utterly fixated on essentially irrelevant Soviet partisan units as they blew up his rails and grabbed back a few small towns. Once I realised this, I just did more of it and he started to disperse his army hunting them down while I rebuilt the Red Army's defenses on the Volga.

still lost, as the player with the other white faction was less easy to distract

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/5/2013 9:50:48 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I would agree with what you say David, very much so. The psychological aspect plays its part for sure. But PBEM is nothing like the heat encountered in a FTF engagement. That's when it is almost as much a factor as your knowledge of the game itself.

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/6/2013 6:29:46 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Absolutely psych can be so helpful in FTF - I'm a miniatures player at heart. Started over 40 years ago and even used to own a firm that made them. Not Games Workshop, sadly........

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 34
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/7/2013 7:15:15 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

How is it that Sean is a Matrix "Legion of Merit" with thousands of posts to his credit yet he never posts in this AAR and seldom on the WITE forum? What is his secret?


years of beta testing service. I'm sadly too busy with real life (doing much the same thing) to take that on any more as a contribution to the community. (or maybe I buy post increases like others buy turns in facebook games )


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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/10/2013 2:43:10 PM   
Scook_99

 

Posts: 301
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		I love playing face to face, felt like swimming in the shark tank with our group. My best friend and me were not allowed to play on the same team, however. That happened once, and we won an automatic victory in 1943........still hate him for that game though, glad he thought I was tougher than I knew.

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Post #: 36
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/10/2013 10:13:39 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Boardgames are good, but seeing your opponent having to remove from the table his now dead model soldiers which he spent hours painting is sooooo much better than removing a bit of printed card.

I hope to have time this w'end for game update unless I can get Sean to post.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 7/10/2013 10:14:56 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/13/2013 12:32:01 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		End T6 overview





No opportunities to c/attack apart from throwing PzG 4 back across the Luga. Won't slow him down much though.

In the centre, the mucus spread out with the 2 Pz groups going off in different directions, so no progress towards M'town which suits me. Both groups sent full corps to the flanks so they are relatively weak.

The southern clump crosses just south of Kiev, leaving Sean to worry about whether they will head SE or NE next turn.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 7/13/2013 12:46:01 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 38
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/14/2013 11:15:24 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		This seems to be my next saved picture




A good bit of herding by DV. Unable to break thru' but 2pz divs ran away from Soviet counter-attacks. Not much Eastward progress in the centre at the moment but 24PzK has returned from the south ( just off screen to the southwhich will give hinm more width - which he needs.

I have been able to stay pretty much in the centre which is valuable for a number of reasons:

Most of my attackers are able to run out of reach to refit. I can also afford to send some other weaker units back to refit whilst other go into reserve mode. Russian always needs to balance reserves and refit. No reserves and German advances better. No refit and units get ground down pretty quickly by combat and attrition.



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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 7/14/2013 11:27:30 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 39
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/15/2013 1:43:41 AM   
Spielverderber


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/6/2013
Status: offline 		Could you let us know what the Moral Level settings are in this game?

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/15/2013 5:54:04 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		everything bog standard

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 41
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 7/27/2013 3:11:38 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Been a while since I posted. DV has done well in the north, a bit slow in the south and slow progress in front of Moscow with his mobile forces under constant counterattack. He'd been mixing the up with inf when leaving them in the front line which helps a bit




the combat where he lost 70 AFVs is the last time he left 2 pz divs in the front line in clear terrain and he was exposed on 3 or 4 hexsides.

Russians do need a lot of troops in the area to do this every turn as I have been. Attackers need to able to retreat to safety and to refit periodically. I start with the principle that every unit not in front line but with MPs should be on reserve or refit. Need to be careful about refit though. Game seems to ignore max TOE settings and will happily fill up units set at 65% to 100% if it has spare troops. This is quite annoying as you need to ensure priority is given to decent units, not the rubbish.

Anyway, the most important thing that I'm making AGC quite cautious. DV's better at herding than I would like ( he is very good at it) so he nibbles off small pockets here and there but at the expense of relatively little eastward progress in the centre.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 7/27/2013 3:24:09 PM >

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Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 42
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 11/14/2013 11:17:58 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		It has been ages since I posted on this but now we are in May '42 , I thought I would explain how the Pros play the 1st winter. As I will just be using the AAR retrospectively to explain why we did stuff (I'm sure DV's AAR tells the story well) He's now welcome to read this. Not really giving away any secrets as this is almost the Pros last WITE game. Not sure if we will reform for WITE 2 as Sean's new job (and time zone) makes it much harder for us to speak.

Key to a good winter is to put the effort into maxing both morale and TOE for intended offensive units. This takes Oct and Nov. Don't worry about units who won't be joining in - see 5 below. Cav divs should be bundled up so as to have 4 armies of 4 corps each built on 4 Dec. They should also be hidden from german recce and only moved to front in last snow turn. Put the ones with best experience together so you get some strong corps.

The main aims are
1 Kill as many Germans as possible, preferably by surrounding units. Cav corps on masse are best for this and both of us used a pair of cav armies(4 corps each) in tandem. I don't subscribe to the 'you must kill X divs or you are useless' theory because you can't kill any if G runs fast enough.
2 do as many successful attacks as we can. Apart from causing casualties, the aim is to have max reductions in Nazi morale form both being attacked and from retreating. Unsuccessful attacks should be avoided. They only help the enemy but improve the morale of your opponent.
3 Take good terrain to defend in '42.We decide our terrain objectives before staring the winter O and deploy accordingly in late November. Take good terrain to defend in '42.
4 Do NOT over extend. First that puts army at risk in March as G recover from winter pretty quickly - enough to attack effectively on first snow turn. so: don't go too far and don't worry about running east again in 2nd half of feb
5 Don't advance with whole army. The only material shortage Russian has from '42 on is trucks so don't march useless mouths ahead of the rail lines as you just waste thousands of valuable trucks for no benefit.
6 when attacking as Russian use everyone who can reach to get max morale and guards farming benefits.

Looking back over the winter, we were very happy with our offensive. 11 divs killed and a lot of divs given a serious kicking inc a lot of mobile ones. By the end of winter he had fewer than 1200 AFVs left. DV made a conscious decision not to run too much and as a result suffered very high attrition losses and we got a lot of attacks in. We didn't actually want to get any further in the south/middle - see points 4+5 above.

I enjoyed beating up very week Finns. Lots of guard divs created up there and more progress than I had hoped. I don't know why DV kept leaving me all these weak units to attack but maybe he has or will explain.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 11/14/2013 12:43:32 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 43
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 1/20/2014 7:33:58 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		We are at the end of Sept and next turn will see the start of a massive programme of artillery divs.

DV has kept at it all summer with some success. Soviet army kept at just over 7.5M. However the Wehrmacht has taken a pasting esp. the panzers and he only has about 1600 functioning AFV. There have been some good furballs inc. the current one where Sean somehow broke the pocket again.
DV is very good at pocketing and herding. Hoever we have quite a lot of good inf xxx, 5 cav armies and 4 tank armies ( in ordinary HQs as tk army HQs only take 3 xxx) and we tend to throw the kitchen sink at his surrounding troops. We are strong enough to do that without him being able to pocket the couterattackers.

both sides have been pretty aggressive - any Germans in the open and in reach get leapt on. 2:1 using face value CVs is a pretty safe attack. CVs in combat screen still seem to bear no resemblance to reality. Looking at both DV's attacks and ours, hardly any show 2:1 in unmodified CV but the vast majority succeed.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/20/2014 8:37:05 AM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 44
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 1/20/2014 9:35:40 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		It's fair to say we leap on anything that looks like a decent attack. Russian losses are pretty immaterial in terms of men and arms cost. Loss of units is no fun especially if they have lots of trucks. APs and trucks are the only shortages we are going to have, and men and arms have been in healthy surplus since March.
Current surplus of about 500K each of men and arms - so I don't know why arms factories still cant produce enough MGs, light mortars etc tho' it's much better than it used to be.
I've been more careful about buying tank xxx this game than vs Smokindave as we were short of trucks against him. I prefer cav armies anyway in many respects as they can often move further before doing deliberate attack and don't use many trucks. When they get their TOE boost early in '43 they get to a CV of 12-15 which is pretty much the same as tank xxx or perhaps better. I might buy 1 mech army for Sean tho' I don't like them much as they are not worth the trucks to have very many. Most of the killing will get done by inf xx + massed art divs. If he runs, massed cav will keep up with him without running out of petrol.
We are relatively far forward especially in the south ( DV never reached the Donbass cities) so the distance to Berlin is not a worry. What matters is crushing the Wehrmacht then the ground will follow.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/20/2014 10:39:40 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 1/20/2014 10:04:32 PM   
smokindave34


Posts: 877
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		I've learned to fear the Soviet cavalry corps. A tank corps or mech corps out in front is fairly easy prey for the panzers but the cavalry corps have always seemed to be a bit stiffer on defense. The fact that they can get two deliberate attacks per turn in even when moving in to poor terrain is a huge advantage.

< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 1/20/2014 11:05:37 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 1/20/2014 10:16:32 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Not being able to read DV's AAR (a delight postponed) I'm not sure what stats he's published so here are a couple




Re casualties for last Russian turn: high soviet tanks losses due to some unfortunate holds but almost all light tanks of which we get 250/turn.
G arty losses also very high especially as a lot of German inf xxs seem not to lose as many 105 and 150mm howitzers when retreating these days which makes me think DV has a shortage. This turn we displaced at least 8 HQs (mainly Pz xxx) and most retreated to very silly places so got displaced a 2nd time, and a lot of these displacements led to very heavy arty losses. DV can sometimes be a little careless where he puts his HQs and does need to teach them to retreat west rather that to the unoccupied town nearest other Russian units.


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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/20/2014 11:28:28 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 1/20/2014 10:29:48 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		OOB speaks for itself.




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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 48
RE: Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -NO DV - 1/20/2014 10:31:07 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		duplicate - webpage playing silly whatsits tonight


< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/20/2014 11:33:09 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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