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Science Academies - 8/4/2013 9:05:28 PM   
Yarasala

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline 		Although there was already some discussion about how they work I cannot help myself but set up a new thread

In my current game I have four science academies on the planets 1, 2, 4 and 7 of my population ranking. Since I set them up game time advanced tens and tens of years, but only one time (long ago now) a third scientist arrived at my empire (I had two before I set up the first academy). For that effect it's not worth the while to pay the maintenance.

Erik, Elliot, is there no chance you tell us the logic behind that game mechanic? Perhaps then we would be able to judge correctly when and where to set up space academies.
Post #: 1
RE: Science Academies - 8/4/2013 9:45:22 PM   
Trev_lite

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 7/12/2013
Status: offline 		is there a max number of scientists that you can have?

(in reply to Yarasala)
Post #: 2
RE: Science Academies - 8/4/2013 9:49:24 PM   
Yarasala

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trev_lite

is there a max number of scientists that you can have?

Probably, but is't certainly higher than three ...

(in reply to Trev_lite)
Post #: 3
RE: Science Academies - 8/4/2013 9:51:06 PM   
Yarasala

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trev_lite

is there a max number of scientists that you can have?

Probably, but it's certainly higher than three ...

(in reply to Trev_lite)
Post #: 4
RE: Science Academies - 8/4/2013 11:06:01 PM   
Fenrisfil

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 6/2/2013
Status: offline 		Agreed, it would be handy to know the mechanics behind character appearances. A few questions come to mind:

1) Is the chance an overall empire thing or something that's figured out per planet (which would make some sense until you consider that admirals tend to appear from within a fleet and not on a planet, though I suppose event related chance could be separate to the generic chance)?
2) Does population come into it?
3) Do Academies increase the whole chance or just that of the colony it is built (in other words does it add a % chance based on the population size, thereby suggesting Academies are most worthwhile on large pop planets)?
4) Is there a cap on how much benefit you can get from Academies?

(in reply to Yarasala)
Post #: 5
RE: Science Academies - 8/4/2013 11:45:24 PM   
Trev_lite

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 7/12/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yarasala


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trev_lite

is there a max number of scientists that you can have?

Probably, but it's certainly higher than three ...


the most i have seen was 4.
also does the science academy increase the max scientists and how does the diminishing returns work?
also does bonus scientists ignore the max? (from getting warp)

(in reply to Yarasala)
Post #: 6
RE: Science Academies - 8/5/2013 12:50:28 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		In my current game (Quameno who receive a significant Scientist spawn rate bonus) I have 7 scientists but have Science Academies on 6 planets only (out of 225).

I'd also like the developer to clarify the details of the benefits that Science Academies provide. Also Spy Academies, Naval Academies and Military Academies.

I don't have any evidence that they help if built on a larger number of planets but I could be wrong. There is a reasonable cost associated with building and maintaining these structures, yet the AI builds them everywhere once they have sufficient population, so it seems like a massive handicap for the AI as the game progresses.

Just like the AI often builds far more research stations and mining bases than they need ...





(in reply to Trev_lite)
Post #: 7
RE: Science Academies - 8/5/2013 2:29:50 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 3597
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		Hi all

Each additional academy (of all types) adds a greater chance for the appearance of a new character of the relevant type.

However each empire has a limit to the number of characters (based on empire size) and each character role (scientist, intelligence agent, etc) also has a limit. This character limit is roughly 6-7 for an empire with a single colony of 10 billion population at development level of 100. This scales up as your empire grows, although not in a straight line - as your empire grows the maximum character increase slows. When you have 20 or more characters, you will not get any random character appearance, instead only through events (e.g. new admiral from successful battle).

The limits for each character role are modified by your empire's dominant race (e.g. Quamenos can have more scientists). In the race files see specifically the settings CharacterRandomAppearanceChanceXXXXX for each character role.

See also: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3362793

Thanks
Elliot

(in reply to Yarasala)
Post #: 8
RE: Science Academies - 8/5/2013 5:18:50 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Elliot, thanks for the response.

The implications of this are interesting to consider. Once we reach a point in-game where random character appearances stop, we may as well scrap all of our academies. That said, if we haven't reached the character role limit, I assume we could choose to dismiss other characters that we consider to add less value, hoping that the character we wanted could spawn and use the academies to help that along ... and then scrap them. I would highlight that the AI continues to build them even after they provide no benefit which puts them at a significant disadvantage.

Is it possible to be specific as to what the change in the chance of appearance is for each academy? Is this change constant for each additional academy or are there diminishing returns?

As your post provides more information than what is available in-game, can I suggest such information is added to the Galactopedia as a matter of habit?

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 9
RE: Science Academies - 8/5/2013 10:15:00 AM   
Yarasala

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for the answer. But still I'm missing some details

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg
Each additional academy (of all types) adds a greater chance for the appearance of a new character of the relevant type.

How much? In which way? For example, if the base probability for a new character is p and you have n academies that increase the chance by x each, is the chance then p + nx or p * (1 + x)^n?

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg
However each empire has a limit to the number of characters (based on empire size) and each character role (scientist, intelligence agent, etc) also has a limit. This character limit is roughly 6-7 for an empire with a single colony of 10 billion population at development level of 100. This scales up as your empire grows, although not in a straight line - as your empire grows the maximum character increase slows. When you have 20 or more characters, you will not get any random character appearance, instead only through events (e.g. new admiral from successful battle).

20 is the absolute limit independent of empire size for random character appearance?
What are the events that can generate a diplomat or intelligence agent or colony governor?

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg
The limits for each character role are modified by your empire's dominant race (e.g. Quamenos can have more scientists). In the race files see specifically the settings CharacterRandomAppearanceChanceXXXXX for each character role.

What is the interval between two applcations of CharacterRandomAppearanceChanceXXXXX? That is, does the game check this probability daily, weekly, monthly or what else?

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 10
RE: Science Academies - 8/5/2013 3:19:42 PM   
Fenrisfil

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 6/2/2013
Status: offline 		So adjusting the chance for a character type to appear in a race file also adjusts the number of characters of that type the race can have? That is interesting indeed!

On a side note, any chance of a Diplomacy Academy? That is really the only character type I regularly find myself lacking.

(in reply to Yarasala)
Post #: 11
RE: Science Academies - 8/7/2013 8:10:38 AM   
Icemania


Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania
The implications of this are interesting to consider. Once we reach a point in-game where random character appearances stop, we may as well scrap all of our academies. That said, if we haven't reached the character role limit, I assume we could choose to dismiss other characters that we consider to add less value, hoping that the character we wanted could spawn and use the academies to help that along ... and then scrap them. I would highlight that the AI continues to build them even after they provide no benefit which puts them at a significant disadvantage.

It worked ... while it's late game I now have 11 Scientists as Quameno Technocracy!


(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 12
RE: Science Academies - 5/30/2019 3:27:35 AM   
chaosegg

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/17/2012
From: The Bitter Hills
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania
The implications of this are interesting to consider. Once we reach a point in-game where random character appearances stop, we may as well scrap all of our academies. That said, if we haven't reached the character role limit, I assume we could choose to dismiss other characters that we consider to add less value, hoping that the character we wanted could spawn and use the academies to help that along ... and then scrap them. I would highlight that the AI continues to build them even after they provide no benefit which puts them at a significant disadvantage.

It worked ... while it's late game I now have 11 Scientists as Quameno Technocracy!



You say "it worked", but I am unclear on just what exactly worked....

Is there solid information yet on what percentages the academies add (approx or otherwise?)?

(in reply to Icemania)
Post #: 13
RE: Science Academies - 5/30/2019 3:58:23 PM   
Retreat1970


Posts: 948
Joined: 11/6/2013
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Necromania today

(in reply to chaosegg)
Post #: 14
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