RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 3:40:23 PM

obvert

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In its early days, Rutgers athletes were known informally as "The Scarlet" in reference to the school color, or as "Queensmen" in reference to the institution's first name, Queen's College.

In 1925, the mascot was changed to Chanticleer, a fighting rooster from the medieval fable Reynard the Fox (Le Roman de Renart) which was used by Geoffrey Chaucer's in the Canterbury Tales. At the time, the student humour magazine at Rutgers was called Chanticleer, and one of its early arts editors, Ozzie Nelson (later of The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet fame) was quarterback of the Rutgers team from 1924 to 1926. The Chanticleer mascot was unveiled at a football game against Lafayette College, in which Lafayette was also introducing a new mascot, a leopard.

However, the choice of Chanticleer as a mascot was often the subject of ridicule because of its association with "being chicken." In 1955, the mascot was changed to the Scarlet Knight after a campus-wide election, beating out other contenders such as "Queensmen", the "Scarlet", the "Red Lions", the "Redmen" and the "Flying Dutchmen."

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/16/2013 3:41:08 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 4:54:33 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Thanks for the Wolverine shoutout. And yes, what exactly is a buckeye?

Without looking it up I always thought a buckeye was a tree nut. Maybe a sub-species of chestnut?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 5:16:11 PM

Argos

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Honored Sirs

Regarding UGA mascot - I believe a motion to change the UGA mascot is in order on two counts #1) it is not the university's original mascot and #2 was/is clearly an infringement (if not a blatant theft) of Yale's Handsome Dan who predates Uga and his precedents by several years (Handsome Dan I - 1889, Uga 1 - 1956 Note: the first dog mentioned at UGA was a female bull terrier named Trilby in 1894). I would propose that UGA, if the previously suggest example of a fine and historically relevant rodent is rejected, be forced to return to its original mascot - a goat clad in a black coat so that Auburn fans can once again return to their 'clever' chants of 'shoot the billy-goat'.

Colorado has to win the mascot thing even though Ralphie technically is a baby - turning a very large, unpredictable, semi wild animal loose in a stadium filled with 10s of thousands of people controlled by a handful of undergraduates (who routinely get piled up in the event - the you tube videos will kill your morning if you get started on them) has to be the ballsy call ever by any univeristy officals and/or legal counsel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa6rMX4UO9w or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEVVKi35lRM Bonus video Jim Knox gets his clock cleaned by one of the handlers who did not get the 'celebrity running along with Ralphie' memo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16ydnYwyyvg

In case of dispute, program wins, as a proxy for historical relevance should be the deciding factor - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_football_teams_by_wins

< Message edited by Argos -- 8/16/2013 5:30:48 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 5:16:38 PM

Canoerebel

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Hey, this is something I know!

Buckeye is a family of trees, several of which grow in temperate forests in the eastern USA. The largest of these is yellow buckeye, which produces a nut encased in a very hard, deep brown shell (some people, by old tradition, carry these for "luck"). This tree is the Ohio mascot (and possibly the Ohio state tree?). Yellow buckeye is in the family Sapindacea and genus Aesculus.

Chestnut is unrelated: family Castanaceae and genus Castanea. Chestnut is fairly closely related (same family) to the oaks and beech.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 7:14:47 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, this is something I know!

Buckeye is a family of trees, several of which grow in temperate forests in the eastern USA. The largest of these is yellow buckeye, which produces a nut encased in a very hard, deep brown shell (some people, by old tradition, carry these for "luck"). This tree is the Ohio mascot (and possibly the Ohio state tree?). Yellow buckeye is in the family Sapindacea and genus Aesculus.

Chestnut is unrelated: family Castanaceae and genus Castanea. Chestnut is fairly closely related (same family) to the oaks and beech.

Is "nut" worth a C-?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 7:53:47 PM

Canoerebel

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Well, probably not, Moose. But knowing how smart you are, were I a tecaher and you a pupil showing an interest in botany, I'd welcome the chance to teach you since you are an inquisitive and bright ungulate from what I've seen.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 8:02:42 PM

DOCUP

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Thundering Herd!!!!!!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 8:18:48 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Well, probably not, Moose. But knowing how smart you are, were I a tecaher and you a pupil showing an interest in botany, I'd welcome the chance to teach you since you are an inquisitive and bright ungulate from what I've seen.

I can tell you that Castanaceae looks like a first declension noun, and is thus feminine. Help my grade any?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 8:30:40 PM

CaptDave

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I once compiled a complete list of all mascots of football schools in all NCAA and NAIA divisions. It's on another computer, but I think most people would give Richmond the vote for the scariest mascot: the Spiders.

If I remember correctly, Tigers was the most common mascot throughout the US (well, the US plus the two or three Canadian schools that are in US sporting conferences). Bulldogs was high on the list, too. Yawn! At least the Big Ten (except for Northwestern) gives us some creativity, and having attended one of those schools with a rodent for a mascot (Go Beavers!) I take special note of the unusual ones.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/16/2013 11:12:34 PM

JeffroK

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In Australian Rules we have "nicknames" rather than Mascots, probably means the same.

The original 12 teams have more traditional names and the more recent arrivals are struggling to be unique.

Melbourne DEMONS
Brisnbane LIONS (Was Fitzroy)
Collingwood MAGPIES
Carlton BLUES
Richmond TIGERS
Hawthorn HAWKS
Essendon BOMBERS
Geelong CATS
St Kilda SAINTS
Nth Melbourne KANGAROOS
Sydney SWANS
Footscray BULLDOGS

Newer Teams are
Adelaide CROWS (State nickname is Croweaters)
West Coast EAGLES (Perth)
Pt Adelaide POWER
Fremantle DOCKERS
Gold Coast SUNS
Greater Western Sydney GIANTS

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 12:37:53 AM

Canoerebel

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John has asked me to send the turn, so I shall oblige. Game back on. :)

I want to post more thoughts later, but to refresh your memory: There is one critical decision to make this turn. The KB is posted at Padang, possibly refreshing sorties, and is thus 13 hexes south of Sabang. My carriers and a bunch of cargo, fuel and troop ships are 13 hexes north of Sabang. There is a chance that John could send his carriers at warp speed to intercept - making perhaps as much as, well, what is it, 18 hexes, to make an interception. Were he to do so, I think the Allies would suffer a major carrier-battle loss that would also cast serious doubt on my ability to sustain my supply lines between Sabang and India. However, I think there's a 98% chance that John won't choose this course of action for a number of reasons: (a) he'll be cautious that I might load up Sabang airfield - level five - and he might even conclude that I'm trying to bait him into doing just what I fear; (b) his slower carriers probably can't make nearly as much at warp speed, and I don't think he'll want to chance action without his combined fleet.

It is important - not critical, but important - to get my ships to Sabang. The troops aren't important; supply is currently very good but I'm bringing in enough to just about seal the deal; but fuel is critical - many ships at Sabang, including the subs, are out, and my major combatants will begin to run short in a week or so. So, all things considered, I think the present configuration offers the best chance to get in. Thus the orders to proceed shall be given.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 2:33:13 AM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Chestnut is unrelated: family Castanaceae and genus Castanea. Chestnut is fairly closely related (same family) to the oaks and beech.

Hello my hiking friend. But the American Chestnut is virtually extinct in the wild no? Almost......but not quite. They grow for a few years before the blight gets them. Rare to see them anymore but I was hiking on the Mohonk Preserve this week and on an obscure, steep slope ran across this....The American Chestnut. Not the hybrid, but a sprout from an original tree

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< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 8/17/2013 2:38:46 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 2:52:43 AM

Canoerebel

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The American chestnut was arguably the most abundant and important tree in the eastern United States until the blight got it a century ago - also arguably the single greatest natural disaster (with an assist from mankind) in North American history. It is estimated that 1/4th of the trees in the eastern forests were chestnut, especially in the Appalachian region. The abundant nut crop was critical to wildlife and to the diets of frontier families and urbanites alike ("chestnuts roasting on an open fire..."). The wood was highly resistant to rot and was widely used in the construction of houses, fencing, and furniture. The bark was high in tannin, so it was harvested for use in tanning animal hides.

In 1904, chesnut blight (Endothea parisitica, if memory serves) was introduced at port in New York City, arriving on some lumber inbound from Europe. The blight spread quickly up and down the eastern seaboard an inland. It reached the South in the 1930s. By the 1940s, essentially 100% of mature American chesntnuts had been girdled near the ground, so that from ground up the great trees died and fell over (the highly resistant wood was still being harvested into the 1970s and chesnut logs were still found in the southeastern forests into the 1990s).

However, the blight does not kill the tree, which has the ability to sprout from the root system. The sprouts grow large enough to produce nuts, but once they are large enough (about the thickness of a man's arm), the bark begins to "fissure." The blight enters the cambium through these fissures, girdling the sprout. The process begins over again, repeatedly, for many generations. Thus, the forests of the east today are filled with little groups of sprouts growing up around the old trunks. Oftentimes, the sprouts are intermingled with the older, dead "ancestors" who preceded them.

So, oddly enough, the American chestnut is still quite common, though never larger than a youth in size. I saw scores during my recent 50-mile Appalachian Trail backpacking trip in North Carolina and Tennessee.

Scientists are working to crossbread American chestnut with "inferior but blight resistant" Spanish and Chinese chestnut (by "inferior," I mean that the nuts are not as tasty or nutricious and the trees not as large nor the lumber as valuable). Scienties have found that hybrids that are 7/8ths American and 1/8th Spanish are resistant. Eventually these will be planted en mass.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/17/2013 3:51:02 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:08:59 AM

Canoerebel

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I believe the current situation in the game illustrates an important point.

Right now, the Allied carriers and the Japanese carriers are 28 hexes (1288 miles) apart. That's a huge amount of separation. However, if KB steams at max speed (I think 18 hexes or 828 miles) it will be possible to easily close within striking distance since the Allied carriers are moving five hexes (240 miles) towards the enemy. The Allies do not want to risk a carrier clash for reasons I deem critical, so I have to carefully weigh all possiblities before giving orders to my ships to steam forward "blindly." Once committed to that four hex advance, there's no chance of retreat for 24 hours, even if the massive enemy fleet closes at flank speed, taking the shortest route, which is right next to Sumatra where I have four or five bases filled with high-quality PBY squadrons.

In the real war, of course, the Allied commander would know almost the exact whereabouts of the KB by the minute. At any point in time, if it appeared that the KB was charging forward, the Allies could retire. IE, one hour into the Allied move on Sabang, the carriers and merchant TFs could be recalled towards Ceylon before the enemy could get within 1,000 miles.

But not in the game. I have to steam forward stupidly because the game is played in 24-hour increments. That's the game, so that's the way it has to be. But that's an awesome level of unrealism.

That, folks, is why I often use picket ships. While they don't help in this particular sitautiion since I have plenty of PBYs to handle spotting, there are many cases in which I commit carriers far from patrol coverage. Picket ships help minimize risks similar to this.

In the real war, picket ships were used, but usually they were posted perhaps five or ten miles or more forward. But the real war was also in real time. Since the game is 24 hour increments, the pickets have to be thrown forward a correspondingly greater distance.

Picket ships, while not purely historical, are a small thing that helps dampen or eliminate a much, much, much larger nonhistorical feature of the game. I'm also certain that had circumstances been similar in the real war, the Allies would have found ways to employ picket ships (or similar things) to keep the enemy away from vital TFs.

A friend recently referred to the use of picket ships as "crap like that." Since I respect his opinion, that comment stung. I think the use of picket ships (at least as I employ them) is reasonable, fair, sensible, and is a small thing that takes care of a much larger flaw.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/17/2013 3:10:22 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:14:26 AM

paullus99

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There are a number of "unhistorical" issues with the game - and I don't fault a player for using what he has for what he needs to do, based on the game mechanics....

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 6:38:30 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

There are a number of "unhistorical" issues with the game - and I don't fault a player for using what he has for what he needs to do, based on the game mechanics....

Nah, they're crap.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 8:39:46 AM

AcePylut

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Can you set your reaction to "0" and set your tf's routing to the safest options?
Would that work?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 11:44:30 AM

ny59giants

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IRL, the commander of a CV TF may have broken off a couple of DDs to sprint ahead to sink the picket ships. In AE, a whole CV or two worth of TBs may be sent off by the AI to sink them and a player will have these CVs lose about 1/2 their total TT stock. That is why I don't like the picket ship idea.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 11:53:05 AM

Canoerebel

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That's why I qualified by saying "the way I use them." I am careful to avoid circumstances in which enemy carriers would end up at a sortie disadvantgae due to my picket ships. I keep them scattered and I pull them out or back as soon as the wire is tripped. I've been using this strategy since AE came out - this is my fifth game - and I've never had a situation where the pickets didn't work fairly and appropriately. Thus, no unfairly wasted enemy sorties, but ridiculous ability of enemy carriers to steam 1,000 miles without my being able to react avoided.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/17/2013 11:54:06 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 1:06:59 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The American chestnut was arguably the most abundant and important tree in the eastern United States until the blight got it a century ago - also arguably the single greatest natural disaster (with an assist from mankind) in North American history. It is estimated that 1/4th of the trees in the eastern forests were chestnut, especially in the Appalachian region. The abundant nut crop was critical to wildlife and to the diets of frontier families and urbanites alike ("chestnuts roasting on an open fire..."). The wood was highly resistant to rot and was widely used in the construction of houses, fencing, and furniture. The bark was high in tannin, so it was harvested for use in tanning animal hides.

In 1904, chesnut blight (Endothea parisitica, if memory serves) was introduced at port in New York City, arriving on some lumber inbound from Europe. The blight spread quickly up and down the eastern seaboard an inland. It reached the South in the 1930s. By the 1940s, essentially 100% of mature American chesntnuts had been girdled near the ground, so that from ground up the great trees died and fell over (the highly resistant wood was still being harvested into the 1970s and chesnut logs were still found in the southeastern forests into the 1990s).

However, the blight does not kill the tree, which has the ability to sprout from the root system. The sprouts grow large enough to produce nuts, but once they are large enough (about the thickness of a man's arm), the bark begins to "fissure." The blight enters the cambium through these fissures, girdling the sprout. The process begins over again, repeatedly, for many generations. Thus, the forests of the east today are filled with little groups of sprouts growing up around the old trunks. Oftentimes, the sprouts are intermingled with the older, dead "ancestors" who preceded them.

So, oddly enough, the American chestnut is still quite common, though never larger than a youth in size. I saw scores during my recent 50-mile Appalachian Trail backpacking trip in North Carolina and Tennessee.

Scientists are working to crossbread American chestnut with "inferior but blight resistant" Spanish and Chinese chestnut (by "inferior," I mean that the nuts are not as tasty or nutricious and the trees not as large nor the lumber as valuable). Scienties have found that hybrids that are 7/8ths American and 1/8th Spanish are resistant. Eventually these will be planted en mass.

Very interesting!

This screams for a GM solution-as you're describing. Here's hoping it works when the GM chestnuts are returned en masse.

Where will planting initiate (and when)? Will they compete with the relative newcomers that are predominating now (e.g., Maple, Oak, Pine, etc.) or are they at a competitive disadvantage?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 2:36:12 PM

Canoerebel

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The American Chestnut Foundation in southwestern Virginia has had the lead on this program for many years. At their big research farm, they've done the genetic crossbreading work for generations now. There are many other smaller groups assisting - there's even a plot of several acres on the campus of Berry College in Rome, about three miles from where I sit. I visited that site yesterday.

Alhtough few folks outside botanical circles would be familiar with all this, the demise of the chestnut and the efforts to breed a disease resistant hybrid has a huge, huge following among tree and nature buffs. There are many people working all over the country in various capacities. I think they are pretty close to being able to generate disease-resistant hybirds on a mass scale for planting.

The 7/8ths-American hybrids will be nearly as good as purebred. If it's able to naturally and efficiently propogate, it should eventually reclaim it's position in the ecosystems of the east, though it might be 150 years before they reach their mature size (I have a photo of loggers standing by an American chestnut that looks as massive as a sequoia). But the question is whether the breeding of 7/8ths with 7/8ths (and successive generations being "more diluted") will yeild the disease-resistant qualities. So I think there is still some doubt about the ability to produce a tree that can resume it's historic place in the ecosystem.

I think there are a few commercial groves of pure American chestnut in California. These have been protected from the blight by the vast Great Plains.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/17/2013 2:38:54 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:02:16 PM

Cribtop

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The whole chestnut thing is very sad, IMHO. How weird is it to have an entire species functionally wiped out? We currently fear the same thing with Oak Wilt for the oaks, which are about the only non-scrub tree that grows in much of Texas. I'm very surprised that a small percentage of Chestnut trees weren't naturally immune. Often at least 10% of a species have a natural resistance (even 10% of humans infected with Ebola live), and then this bit of the population can re-invigorate the species.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:25:40 PM

zuluhour

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Dan, Please take this as student asking a question. The way I understand the US Navy's doctrine regarding the Kido Butai or its elements, involved using intelligence from intercepts, gathering resources, ie. ships, planes, and screens, and confronting it whenever possible. While the ambush at sea was preferable, the carriers first priority was to sink the enemy's regardless of the odds. Midway and Coral Sea were huge risks with the best estimates pitting the USN at parity in number of ships. While I have no problem with pickets (as allied anyway)I believe the only factor would be how fast the USN carriers would close on the contact. I think they would have stayed in "wait", or depending on the admiral how fast they would react and close. In brief summation, I think the game reflects it well. You can play a game of chicken (no offense chicken boy

) but you can't select who you want to fight and whom you don't. You just can't operate in an active combat theater and chose targets of lesser strength than your own and ignore the primary targets of the US Navy and the flattops themselves. This being the case your only option is to order your flag officer to high tail it or risk ambush yourself. I hope this does not set off a &^%$ storm. I am no authority on naval warfare only a student of history learning on the fly.

ps I only operate (and rarely, never made it to late war) picket ships of destroyer and frigate classes with endurances logical to co operate with the TFs involved. NO xAKLs etc. This may be different for Japan as we know they operated 'Junks" hundreds of miles off the home islands.
pss My counter to the situation: avoid Halsey as a flag officer, react 1. I'd really like to know how some of the AE vets set their CVTFs in similar situations.

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 8/17/2013 3:39:03 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:31:14 PM

desicat

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It never ceases to amaze me the things I learn here. This Chestnut tree story is fascinating, I'm going to have to do some background reading.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:35:57 PM

zuluhour

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Here in Maryland in a little town, railhead in the civil war, Ellicott City has many older buildings on main street. Look carefully inside them, they have open ceilings in most, and you will see American chestnut. Un warped, straight as the day they were installed. It really is amazing how strong and true it is.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 3:47:08 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

The whole chestnut thing is very sad, IMHO. How weird is it to have an entire species functionally wiped out? We currently fear the same thing with Oak Wilt for the oaks, which are about the only non-scrub tree that grows in much of Texas. I'm very surprised that a small percentage of Chestnut trees weren't naturally immune. Often at least 10% of a species have a natural resistance (even 10% of humans infected with Ebola live), and then this bit of the population can re-invigorate the species.

I don't know a thing about plant immune function / disease resistance. But we see what you're describing quite often over on the animal side of the equation. You just hope that there's enough of a stable breeding population that survivors can repopulate the species after resistance develops.

The whole "indigenous plant vs. imported" argument is strong on the left coast right now too. Witness the various points of view regarding the coastal eucalyptus trees around San Francisco and the bay area versus those clamoring for a reduction in their numbers and restoration of natural coastal vegetation.

I visited Mt. Saint Helens in the mid 1990s and toured the summit...erm...the 'new' summit. Even in the 1980s, the Forestry Service was unable to decide whether to let nature take its course, leaving a moonscape for much of the summit, or to assist with replanting. After some deliberation, they sagely elected to do a little bit of both. One one side of the main summit road, they left if fallow. The other half they selectively restored. 10 years after this approach, the difference was stark. You can still see a significant difference from satellite images of the summit.

Mother nature is brutally efficient. I wouldn't want it any other way.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 5:04:29 PM

BBfanboy

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Zuluhour, in the months just after the PH attack, the USN carefully kept its carriers away from anywhere KB was operating. The Philippine campaign showed that Japanese planes and pilots were much more effective than pre-war propaganda supposed. The USN knew its pilots needed more training and experience, and was already working on replacement aircraft for the Devastator.

After the Marcus raid [Feb 42?] and some AAA upgrades the USN felt it could take on part of KB on equal terms. Intel on the forces coming to invade Port Moresby was for 2 CVs and a CVL. If the Japanese took PM, communications with Australia would be much more difficult and the Aus. government would likely pull all of its troops back from the Middle East and India, leaving those theatres in jeopardy. Since the target was critical and the opposition about equal, the USN committed to oppose the Japanese in the Coral Sea. They learned a lot from the battle that both gave them pause [vulnerability of carriers to fire, need for more fighters] and gave them confidence [effectiveness of US DBs and the Wildcats].

After Coral Sea, the US already knew another big operation was in the wind, and once it was identified as Midway, they decided they had to oppose it. If the Japanese took Midway, they could raid toward the US West coast without being detected until the last minute. Communications with PH would be threatened.
Intel showed that 4 Japanese CVs were assigned to the Midway op, and the US committed the two undamaged carriers it had but rushed Yorktown through patch-up repairs instead of the full repair she needed, so they could have a third carrier available. There was much trepidation about doing this - if the Japanese detected and attacked the US CVs first, the USN could be rendered impotent in the Pacific for a long time. Another Japanese raid on PH could destroy the strategic targets - the repair yards and fuel tank farms. Thankfully, it worked out well for the US.

Even after Midway, the US had to be careful with the CVs, and only used them for critical operations [no raiding].

Point is, the USN would not likely have risked the CVs in 1942 against the full KB of six CVs. There was simply too much at stake strategically to not have any CVs in the Pacific. At one point they even borrowed the RN CV Formidable while Enterprise and Saratoga were repairing.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 3147

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 6:02:31 PM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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I want to respond BB but will not use Dan's forum for it. I just took a quick reread from Nimitz and still feel justified in my acceptance of the game engine in regards to the twenty four hour time frame. I agree with Dan that the inability to "intervene" on the fly is hard to swallow at times. It's just that I think the Devs incorporated some interesting possibilities easily explained by OP-20-G*, weather, and leadership combined with USN doctrine at the time. Granted Admiral King and Nimitz along with secretary Knox were in the process of creating a new doctrine,the AI does create some completely unexpected results.

* Hypo

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 8/17/2013 6:04:50 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 3148

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 6:14:27 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Chestnuts: The interior of the "old section" of the UGA School of Forest Resources is paneled in gorgeous "wormy chestnut." This came from trees that had died in the '30s or '40s that had been laying on the forest floor for decades, but were still sound. The longs were salvaged in the '70s and sawed into lumber. It was the tannin in the wood that made it so resistant to decay. The wood of American chestnut is gorgeous - hard and a rich reddish brown in color.

The history of natural disasters in the USA is pretty interesting. Just one aspect is figuring out what's real and what isn't. We have "the real things" like chestnut blight, Dutch elm disease, and the hemlock wooly adelgid. Those have truly wreaked havoc on our natural environmenbt. But there have also been interesting cases of "crying wolf" (though with good intentions) like lethal yellowing (was supposed to wipe out coconut palms in Florida in the early '70s) and dogwood anthracnose (those concerns have faded away after peaking in the '90s). Another interesting case study is acid rain. That got amazing attention in the '80s and '90s (the equivalent of AIDS in notoriety). But when's the last time you read anything about acid rain?

Picket Ships: As for USA naval doctrine, BBFanboy is articulating something I've said before. The US Navy almost always knew where the KB was - or at a minimum where it wasn't. Very seldom did the USN stick its nose out without a decent idea of the opposition faced.

But the biggest difference is the "24-hour no turn around" feature of AE. Had the USN faced something like that, strong and creative action would have been taken to protect critical assets. That's exactly what I've done. I've taken low-value assets and employed them in a sensible way to give the minimum needed protection to employ my carriers. I used to use mainly cheap xAK and xAKL. Today, I use at least 50% DD and AM and PC, but there are operations where I don't have enough of these ships.

Two other factors are key: (1) the Japanese employment of a full KB (here John may be operating 15 or more carriers in close proximity) and (2) the Allies can go weeks or months without the slightest idea where the KB is or isn't.

I understand people coming up with their own methods of addressing this issue - there are quite a variety. But what I don't understand is the condemnation of the method I'm using.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/17/2013 6:18:32 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 3149

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/17/2013 6:32:30 PM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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No condemnation here Dan. Not in the least. I play as a "romantic" to a degree and can't send merchants out as pickets as the Allies. I also can't find a lot of information on the subject for 1942. I have no problem injecting any vessels you like into screens etc. within reason. I know you don't have thirty merchants out as pickets, I'm guessing half a dozen functioning like AMCs or more likely non-combatant camouflaged merchants. I can see this in the DEI, harder west of the Gilberts Marshalls though. My argument is for the twenty four hours under AI command after you issue orders. The lack of "back off" when sighting carriers button would be some kind of fix but what if the scouting aircraft only picked up two escort carriers? Would that be enough to warrant a "come about" order? I have a lot I'd like to relate on the topic as it is a very discussable area for a future "rebuild" of A&E. My solution for a future version would leave you with some additional features for warships. I think you should be able to establish a rally point with criteria to effect its actuation as well as establishing "way points" (a buoy would be a nice touch) which you could rout convoys on relieving us of the burden of constant merchant and transport navigation ie. establish sea lanes. This could help you abort a landing or an unfavorable carrier confrontation.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 3150

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