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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 1:13:09 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Joc, there's lots of fighting to be done and the wheels can definitely come off, but the invasion of Sumatra was a game changing event that following other game changing events - mainly the Assam campaign and the successive disastrous Japanese naval strikes at Ramree Island. I'm guessing you had to form your impression from reading John's AAR. Certainly nothing I've written in mine has hinted at the possibility of disaster. Yes, John might still pull out an inside straight here, but from where I'm sitting, the Allies have controlled the initiative since early June 1942 and Japan has done next to nothing offensively (except reconquering the Gilberts, which was fine since that was part of my plan to help me with Ramree Island).


I havn´t read John AAR for quite some time. To many "banzais" in there!

I base(d) my worry on that nagging feeling that it might have been too early for such a bold move. With your air force starting to be worn down and ground troops looking about the same I started to wonder if a decisive allied naval defeat could tip the balance into Japanese favor. But I´m too inexperienced to judge such things and as a reader of an AAR its hard to grasp the overall "feel" of a situation. Hence my questions.

The reason I brought up PzB is that he counter attacked a similar early allied incursion into Java. But I don´t remember the details of it and the strength of the incursion besides 2 USMC Divisions. Don´t even remember if it was WITP or WITP:AE. And to be honest I don´t think John is playing in the same league as PzB.

Glad to hear my worries were unfounded!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3211
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 1:27:10 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		There's no question a decisive Japanese naval victory would make my situation tough. Yes, the Allies can lose Sumatra if Japan can establish a blockade. Japan probably can't do that without winning a carrier battle. But even that happens, the Allies would hold on for months or longer. The Allied army in Sumatra is far stronger than John's at the moment; that could change, but it will take John a LONG time to pull together the kind of force that can overcome a combination of big infantry units, lots of supply, and fort building. The Allied army has been wearied in the campaign, but John is shedding divisions like crazy. I think he's already blown out at least two in Sumatra, maybe three, and he's had a bunch more impailed in Burma, where they are currently kind of isolated. Yes, the wheels can come off, but I'd MUCH rather be in my position than in John's.

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Post #: 3212
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 1:35:35 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		Well, lets hope to avoid that carrier battle then!

Do you have a good grasp on the whereabouts of all his unrestricted divisions? I have found witpqs tool "intelmonkey" to be fanstastic for this:

https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/intel-monkey

For me its an absolutely essential tool nowadays!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3213
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 1:52:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		There's been so much activity that I know pretty much the location of all his unrestricted divisions - or at least 80% of them - if I bothered to assemble the information. Suffice to say most are in Burma or Sumatra, or at least heading to the latter. (One that isn't is 56th, which is at New Caledonia according to SigInt.)

The Allied divisions were beat up and somewhat dispersed during the Sumatra campaign. 18th UK, which speerheaded the landing, has been divided between Kota Bharu and and offshore island, important positions on the flank, but certainly making it vulnerable. 1st USMC and 27th USA Divisions need some time to recover disabled squads. The Indian Division and another USA division near Medan are in good shape. The division at Sibolga is fairly weak but fighting on good terrain.

I went through this awhile back and still think it's true, but given the carnage suffered by the Japanese army over the past few months, it will be impossible for John to retake Sabang (and probably Langsa) unless he's able to impose a tight blockade for an extended period of time. He can't do that without winning a carrier battle. So my priority is and has been to minimize the chance that he can do so. I think he's angling for one now - certainly judging by his frothing email comments - so we'll see.

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Post #: 3214
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 4:29:36 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Status: offline 		Do the Allied ground forces receive automatic upgrades on 1/1/43? What are the conditions for the upgrades besides whats in the pools? Although these upgrades don't directly boost AV, they certainly increase the combat value of the boots on the ground.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 3215
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 4:31:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'm not an expert, but intuitively I think the Allied pools begin to draw '43 squads staring on January 1. Over time, those become available to flesh out the units. So I don't think my divisions magically change to '43 stuff on January 1, but that date initiates the gradual transition to better equipment. Kill! Kill! Kill Japs!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 5:48:08 PM   
catwhoorg


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From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline 		Don't you just need sufficient supplies for an upgrade ? (assuming the squads are in the pool)

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Post #: 3217
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 5:53:26 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I dunno. I dunno nothin' 'bout nothin', I think. If they upgrade using just supply, sounds good to me. If it's a more gradual transition as the pools fill, that's fine too. I can be cavalier about it, because it doesn't impact how I play the game. My infantry are where they need to be, I'll use 'em as smartly as I can, and we'll see if John can come and root 'em out. My money is on General Vandergrift and the 1st Marine Division.

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Post #: 3218
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 6:06:39 PM   
pws1225

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Well, lets hope to avoid that carrier battle then!

Do you have a good grasp on the whereabouts of all his unrestricted divisions? I have found witpqs tool "intelmonkey" to be fanstastic for this:

https://sites.google.com/site/staffmonkeys/intel-monkey

For me its an absolutely essential tool nowadays!



+1 on that. The intel list that thing gives is about as close to a snapshot of the Japanese OOB as you can get. If it replicates the intel the Allies compiled in real life, I'm surprised Japan held out until 1945.

(in reply to JocMeister)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 10:52:57 PM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		I believe the AFB have to make this sort of offensive, sometime & somewhere.

IRL the Guadalcanal Campaign drew the IJA & IJN into an area where the Allies could compete and start wearing down the JFB.

I also believe that your spearhead was diluted by incursions to Alor Star, Singora etc. They might have provided some distraction but could you have made Nthn Sumatra firmly secure with those forces???

IMVHO, the only place missed was Pt Blair, it might have been a valueable bear close to the rear.

_____________________________

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/23/2013 11:50:54 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I dunno. I dunno nothin' 'bout nothin', I think. If they upgrade using just supply, sounds good to me. If it's a more gradual transition as the pools fill, that's fine too. I can be cavalier about it, because it doesn't impact how I play the game. My infantry are where they need to be, I'll use 'em as smartly as I can, and we'll see if John can come and root 'em out. My money is on General Vandergrift and the 1st Marine Division.


The biggest advantage to the 43 squads vs the 42 for Commonwealth and American units is the big increase in the inherent anti tank value of the individual squads. This is big as Japanese tanks quickly become ineffective vs all Allied infantry save the poor Chinese. So yes, it is a big upgrade. If you are creative you can start converting division withing about two months. The real problem is devices for the Commonwealth troops. The Americans are pretty easy to fill out.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 12:02:08 AM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I also believe that your spearhead was diluted by incursions to Alor Star, Singora etc. They might have provided some distraction but could you have made Nthn Sumatra firmly secure with those forces???

IMVHO, the only place missed was Pt Blair, it might have been a valueable bear close to the rear.


With respect to Alor Star and Singora, the jury is probably out, the I think it was a good and profitable move. I've committed 18th UK and an Indian brigade. In doing so, the Allies have severed the Malaysia railroads for nearly a month now, seriously degrading John's ability to transfer troops from Burma to Singapore and Sumatra. Huge, in my book.

With respect to Port Blair, that would've been an awful diversion of resources to an unnecessary place while forsaking the necessary place. PB had Imperial Guards Division behind perhaps nine months of forts. How man divisions would I have needed - and how long - to wrest that base from John's hands? I needed those units in Sumatra, where it was harder than expected to take Sibolga, Medan and Langsa. I couldn't have taken Medan if I did have all the units present. Far better to isolated PB and render it neutered than to get bogged down there. Look at it this way: John was expecting me to attack there and was prepared. He wasn't looking or expecting at Sumatra, so the Allies stole a march on the enemy and achieved a hugely successful lodgement.

(in reply to JeffroK)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 12:05:05 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

The biggest advantage to the 43 squads vs the 42 for Commonwealth and American units is the big increase in the inherent anti tank value of the individual squads. This is big as Japanese tanks quickly become ineffective vs all Allied infantry save the poor Chinese. So yes, it is a big upgrade. If you are creative you can start converting division withing about two months. The real problem is devices for the Commonwealth troops. The Americans are pretty easy to fill out.
Big increase in both anti-Armor and Anti-soft targets for the US Army infantry. Not sure but this is probably the Garand becoming common plus the addition of more BAR's and of course the bazooka. Looks like this is a bigger jump than the 43 to 44 infantry. Pools get broad and deep pretty quickly too.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 4:18:44 AM   
princep01

 

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Status: offline 		On B & W movies, I have to agree with much that has been said above.  The use of shadows to set moods in noir films like Citizen Kane always inspired my opinion of the genre. 

Two B & W films that have not been mentioned are among my all time favorites:  The Third Man with J. Cotton and Orsen Wells (Harry Lime) is simply great filmmaking.  The scene on the Prador Wheel in Vienna between the two actors rates as a top scene ever.  The other is The Spy Who Came in From the Cold.  R. Burton is great and the film always leaves me with a feeling of deep empathy for his character.

As to 70s films.  Well, I sort of agree with Canoerebel.  It was not a high point in filmmaking, but it had its moments.  While it is an 1981 film, it is my all time favorite.....Bladerunner (Director's Cut).  And, while I think it was a very late 60s film, The Graduate, is number 2 on my all time list.  

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 5:03:20 AM   
Cribtop


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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		First, anything with Bogart = teh bomb.

Second, MST 3K called the 70s as "the Decade of Shame." Perfect call and done, IMHO.

Third, CR, keep those CVs safe. The only way you lose this Op is to lose those carriers!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 6:48:22 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		With respect to Port Blair, that would've been an awful diversion of resources to an unnecessary place while forsaking the necessary place. PB had Imperial Guards Division behind perhaps nine months of forts. How man divisions would I have needed - and how long - to wrest that base from John's hands

With that sort of force it may have been a very hard/impossible task.
Without the exact knowledge of JIII's defences and incomplete info you wish to share, we on the sidelines are not always fully aware of the situation.

But its far from unneccesary, just look at the efforts you have to do to ferry fighters and have ships scurrying around to resupply Sabang. Its one of the choices you have to take.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 7:12:58 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I dunno. I dunno nothin' 'bout nothin', I think. If they upgrade using just supply, sounds good to me. If it's a more gradual transition as the pools fill, that's fine too. I can be cavalier about it, because it doesn't impact how I play the game. My infantry are where they need to be, I'll use 'em as smartly as I can, and we'll see if John can come and root 'em out. My money is on General Vandergrift and the 1st Marine Division.


You need supply and a command HQ I believe. But I seem to remember the Command HQs range is doubled when it comes to upgrades? If so within 18 hexes range. NyGiants can probably give you the exact procedure. You also of course need the corresponding number of squads in the pool. As crsutton says this is the most important upgrade in the war. By splitting divisions you can start upgrading fairly soon.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 11:59:43 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Most of the Commonwealth (CW) troops get their '43 Rifle with the significant increase in anti-armor in 2/43. Some come in 1/43 and the Americans come in 12/42. You will need to Stockpile them so they don't bleed out into fill out the TO&E of other troops. I would go into the "Industry/Troop/Resource Pool" screen and in the right column click these to "Y" to begin stockpiling. It will not be until 2/43 for the American and 5/43 for your Indian divisions before your stockpile is large enough to start upgrading your divided divisions. Like Jocke said, the supply level and a Command HQ will be needed in Sumatra for this to happen.

I will now stockpile the various DP type guns. The CW get the 3.7" and the American 90mm that need to go to certain units first. All the CW troops fight for the 6 pdr AT guns, so I've got them stockpiling so a divided division doesn't take some and then 1 of 3 is stuck with 2 pdr AT and I cannot recombine the damn division.

I know Dan dislikes all this extra micro-management, but you have to do it for your devices.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 8/24/2013 12:00:17 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 12:01:15 PM   
zuluhour


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I know Dan dislikes all this extra micro-management, but you have to do it for your devices.


[/quote]

Perhaps Dan likes being left to his own devices.... sorry, couldn't help it.

ps Did they change the way you do quotes or did I just have another senior moment?

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 8/24/2013 12:02:58 PM >

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Post #: 3229
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 1:34:59 PM   
Canoerebel


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Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Oh, man, my eyes are rolling back in my head. Lordy, the thought of this kind of micromanagement! I know it's necessary to understand and utilize this aspect of the game. If I keep playing the game and want to get better, I'll have to eventually take this on, too. But I'm not sure I'll be around that long.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 2:05:37 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

The Third Man with J. Cotton and Orsen Wells (Harry Lime) is simply great filmmaking.
Excellent choice. Now I can't get the soundtrack out of my head! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX4ylBvPPVU

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 3231
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 2:06:45 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Oh, man, my eyes are rolling back in my head. Lordy, the thought of this kind of micromanagement! I know it's necessary to understand and utilize this aspect of the game. If I keep playing the game and want to get better, I'll have to eventually take this on, too. But I'm not sure I'll be around that long.
I think if you do nothing it will take care of itself. You have HQ's so as long as there is enough supply you will be fine

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3232
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 2:48:36 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		12/8/42

Pretty tough day for the Allies and the portents are for toughs days ahead. Sounds like fun, right!

But first, I got this email from John last night, in which he tried to tell me what his schedule is like today: "I have a weekend closer now and so I go in for a short 3 hour shift on Saturday morning so I can get the deliver put away and into the computer." On the fourth reading, I think I figured out what he was telling me.

Sumatra: The most disturbing event of the day was the sudden and unexpected capitulation of Sibolga to Japan. I thought an American division in jungle-rough could hold out against (effectively) 1.5 divisions. But enemy bombardments did the trick. My concern is that now John can turn his attention of the heart of the Allied position. That's not good, but "Don't Give Up the Ship!"

At Sea: Yikes, my little CA bombardment TF inbound towards Victoria Point took a terrible position just a few hexes offshore and got clobbered by enemy LBA. Why they moved in close, I dunno, but this kind of squirelly behavior is always possible. Also, an enemy four-DD TF came into Sabang, crossed the T, and put one TT in BB Pennsylvania and one into BB California (the latter will require long yard time, the former only a modest amount of time, though getting either of them to Capetown is a longterm proposition). The Allied TF sank two of the DD outright; strike aircraft finished off the other two. They weren't the topnotch destroyers, though.

KB: Enemy carriers take position south of Ceylon. I'm not sure exactly how much is there. Cursor shows three TFs with aircraft totals not completely overwhelming, but we've all played that game before: "Hey, I think the enemy carriers only have xxx aircraft, so I can take it on. Oops, what do you know, [gurgling sounds in background as last of six American carriers slides under the sea], the enemy actually had xxx times 5 strike aircraft!" The KB damaged AO Kankakee moderately heavy, but she's just two hexes from Koggala, and also sank an empty xAK. The vast majority of shipping made Colombo, or close thereto; the big reinforcement/supply/fuel convoy is north of Port Blair and isn't detected, as best I can tell. The Allied carriers are 12 hexes NE of KB and undetected, as best I can tell, though John can probably guess pretty well. Have some decisions to make: move my carriers near Ceylon, augment LRCAP, and chance a carrier battle ["gurgling sounds as the last American carrier...."]. Steam north towards Chittagong with a goal or replenishing sorties? Hold at or close to current position? Strip some fighters to supplment Colombo? Or, least likely, send carriers back towards Andaman Islands?

Burma: Most of the Ramree Island infantry units will cross the water and reach the shore over the next two days, joining the big Allied stack that's been stymied for a single IJ division in the jungle.

Elsewhere: Some things are in the works, but I am remaining vague so that I can annoy people. 32 y 19.6 xB3 99 Bravo.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3233
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 2:52:16 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Oh dear. That was a bad turn. I worry about your CVs being functionally trapped in the Bay of Bengal. An attack in another theater soon would be great timing.

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Post #: 3234
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 3:19:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		At the moment, I'm leaning towards posting my carriers one hex from Trincomalee (and three from Colombo). I don't think John would move that close to Ceylon, but if he does, I would like to maximize the interaction between carrier fighters and land-based fighters. Question: What is the best setting? My "gut/intuitive" feeling would be to set range for the carrier fighters to six (to permit escorting of bombers in case the KB draws in range) but to limit the LBA to range three (close enough for them to bleed over and provide some LRCAP to the carriers). I'd also assign the carrier fighters to 60% CAP, 40% escort; LBA would probably go 90% CAP (or should some of these be specifically set on LRCAP - and, if so, should I also give them specific targeting of a carrier TF, or leave the target blank)?

This placement of the carriers enhances the protection of Colombo and also of the carriers, while also positioning the carriers close to safe harbor. And, per Cribtop's observation, it minimizes the risk that my carriers might get isolated in the Bay of Bengal). Thirdly, the Japanese carriers would be very far from safe waters, while the Allies will be close, should John remain aggressive and close.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 4:18:18 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I dunno. I dunno nothin' 'bout nothin', I think. If they upgrade using just supply, sounds good to me. If it's a more gradual transition as the pools fill, that's fine too. I can be cavalier about it, because it doesn't impact how I play the game. My infantry are where they need to be, I'll use 'em as smartly as I can, and we'll see if John can come and root 'em out. My money is on General Vandergrift and the 1st Marine Division.


You need supply and a command HQ I believe. But I seem to remember the Command HQs range is doubled when it comes to upgrades? If so within 18 hexes range. NyGiants can probably give you the exact procedure. You also of course need the corresponding number of squads in the pool. As crsutton says this is the most important upgrade in the war. By splitting divisions you can start upgrading fairly soon.



That's for TOE upgrades. For just the squad upgrades no HQ is required.

_____________________________

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 3236
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 5:21:24 PM   
Cribtop


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Status: offline 		I would have some specific LRCAP from the LBA.

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Post #: 3237
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 5:53:48 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I issued the orders a couple of hours ago.

Carriers take position as described, one hex from Trincomalee. I moved about 50 fighters from Sabang to Trincomalee - a full squadron of P-40K and partial squadrons of P-40E and P-39G, all with highly experienced pilots. These are mainly set to LRCAP. There is some risk here if John is really looking for a fight, but it's the best configuration I can think of. Very close to my ports and very distant from his. If nothing happens tomorrow, this will put the carriers pretty close to Colombo and the freedom of the open IO.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 3238
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 5:54:41 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I would have some specific LRCAP from the LBA.


+1

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Post #: 3239
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/24/2013 5:57:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		By the way, at Sabang I have SWPac HQ. I don't recall what the prep is, but I think it'll be 100% by the time it's called on for an conceivable land combat in range.

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