Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Those Level 9 AFs can host, umm, about 5000 kamis. Don't eat the deer until you shoot the deer.

If you want to do Formosa go for it. I'll try to wait until late to say I told you so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Bah,

Stupid forum ate the post and I forgot to take a copy :( It was a short report of the last two days. Not much happening besides putting Soerabaja to the torch! Almost 150.000 fires started. Best I have gotten in the game even when doing daylight runs!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Bah,

Stupid forum ate the post and I forgot to take a copy :( It was a short report of the last two days. Not much happening besides putting Soerabaja to the torch! Almost 150.000 fires started. Best I have gotten in the game even when doing daylight runs!

It would be interesting how much collateral damage is incurred .. could you document that as days go by?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Those Level 9 AFs can host, umm, about 5000 kamis. Don't eat the deer until you shoot the deer.

If you want to do Formosa go for it. I'll try to wait until late to say I told you so.

I am assuming you are advocating attacking the home islands from extended B-29 range, and thus avoiding the pain of Kami attacks from built up bases within the home islands ring. The Bonnin Islands do not have a single AF of (4) that can be built to at least 7. I am not sure of the home rules in this game. If nighttime strategic bombing is allowed such a strategy would have merit. [Sweep fighters during the day bomb all night] However, if B-29's have to fight there way in during the day-- then unlike real life, the operational resources are going to require lot of air platforms to penetrate and maintain pressure.

You had a rant in my AAR that the Pacific theater is nothing like the European theater, however, I might comment that in this game, unlike real life, the IJ can amass thousands of fighters on the home islands, and with enough home rules it forces the environment to one of constant attrition. [With exceptions -- The IJ do not tend to run out of stuff like real life]. Given the historical Allied OOB, I might propose that one has to think out of the box to achieve victory. To make matters more complicated, the IJ very well might have ahistorical platforms very soon further providing an advantage in this strategic contest. Thus the historical Marianas B-29/ Bonnis P-51 strategy might not apply to this game. To me it would depend if the IJ left Formosa open to attack.. if so then weigh the risk ...

This game is no simulation ... thus I propose ones strategy has to be a combination of balancing the game algorithms, home rules, and what the other player gives you ....

quote:

As an aside, rather than tackle Formosa with all its warts, I might take a hard, hard look at a direct thrust on Hong Kong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

As an aside, rather than tackle Formosa with all its warts, I might take a hard, hard look at a direct thrust on Hong Kong.

One piece of information we do not know .. has the IJ depleted Formosa defenses? That question has not been answered yet. At least the AI I have played with has no scripts to deviate forces elsewhere like Burma ... A look at the WitP Tracker Intel screen could determine of forces have been depleted.

As far as forts go ... supply is key as everybody on this forum knows ... I am not sure of the LI on this island as far as supplying long term war of attrition if the Island were isolated.

Taihoku is key in my book.. I might say that the Kaelung Fortress in any new Beta if supplied is virtually impossible to take by sea. The flak is enormous .... My map shows Taihoku, Taichu, Kagi, Takao as clear terrain with an improved road .. how does the hills get involved here besides Karenko (Mtn), and Hengchun (woods/rough)? No road connects Hengchun to the Island .. are you pointing out that an invasion of Hengchun has to slug its way through Woods/Rough Terrain and no road? [That makes sense ... but to say the whole island is "hilly" confuses me ..

Also, home rules can affect this decision greatly for example night attacks on airfields....

One problem with Hong Kong so well described by one of our more astute community members ..."The Empire Kool-Aid drinkers simply get on trains ..." Very hard to reinforce Formosa once the operations commence ...

quote:

I'm not sure what your comment re HK means.

Edit: And you didn't address my point about Formosa being valuable mainly for B-29 ops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

I'm not sure what your comment re HK means.

Edit: And you didn't address my point about Formosa being valuable mainly for B-29 ops.

Hong Kong is connected to China and railways that run to Canton .. a pretty good road network to Kukong and beyond .. so the IJA might focus a heck of lot more forces very quickly to a Hong Kong Invasion ...than to put boys on ships and counter-invade ..

Yes, Regular B29 range and extended B-24/17 range to Kyushu Island .. The Level 9 base seems to offer a bonus for group cohesion .. in my limited experience almost a multiplier in some respects .. [having multiple groups arrive as one attack adds a multiplier to target damage over those same groups arriving dispersed in multiple attacks ..]

So Multiple B-29's/B24's starting from a level 9 base attacking within normal range adds a strategic advantage. Given the worth of smacking strategic targets in this game ... this can be maximized in this game and Taihoku is key in my book

To go on record .. I look at this game a little different than those that believe this is an historical simulation. So for example, I look at my experiences lately with strategic bombing and I say wow! This game really emphasizes highly coordinated attacks and level 9 bases seem to me at this point really factor into this equation. One really close level 9 base is Taihoku .. a whole bunch of B29's and B24's from Taihoku could torch Kyushu... I calculate well worth the VP's 600 Kammi's are going to sink ... especially if I put out a screen of ships for the Kami's to sacrifice themselves until I can get air superiority ...

Ok 'nuff of me ... In my game I might not make it to the end of 1942!

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Guiuan at 82,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 105 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 21
D4Y4 Judy x 25
J2M3 Jack x 17
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 16

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 9 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 6 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 10 destroyed by flak
J2M3 Jack: 8 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham
DD Hale
DD McNair
CL Miami
DD Daly
DD Frazier
DD Ammen

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
15 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Guiuan at 82,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 37
J2M3 Jack x 17

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 12 destroyed, 9 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
J2M3 Jack: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AKA Andromeda, Bomb hits 1
AKA Athene, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD O'Brien
APA Bolivar
DE Thomason
APA Barnstable
APA Cavalier, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LSI(L) Empire Star, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Dumaguete at 78,86

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 1,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 9

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 5 destroyed

quote:

Ground combat at Mergui (53,62)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5737 troops, 18 guns, 485 vehicles, Assault Value = 369

Defending force 5911 troops, 85 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 84

Allied adjusted assault: 288

Japanese adjusted defense: 27

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Mergui !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2496 casualties reported
Squads: 77 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 92 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 37 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (15 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 5

Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The Oscars at 1k are probably kamis. Don't kamikaze attacks use the Low Nav skill? That would help to explain a 1k altitude.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


EDIT
I think You will be ok. Beta has fixed kamikaze. Now they are on more affective that they where in RL. In my test game i send 6 CV TF toward Tokyo. They where facing 2000 planes attack (1/3 where kamikaze)(spreed in dozen waves) and i manage to damage only few ships but none of them was in sinking condition.

Beta have spoil entire fun from Kamikaze to Japanese players

quote:

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI

Do you plan to go beyond the Allied Auto-Victory of 2:1 in January 1945? I say this because I suspect Formosa and torching Kyushu is going to put you close to AV ....

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI

Do you plan to go beyond the Allied Auto-Victory of 2:1 in January 1945? I say this because I suspect Formosa and torching Kyushu is going to put you close to AV ....

I doubt I´ll get a 2:1 anytime soon since I still only hold a 1:1

We arn´t playing for VPs and I rarely look at them beyond trying to confirm sinkings so we will continue to play as long as both want to.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Umnak Island at 169,51

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 32
A6M5c Zero x 32
B5N2 Kate x 14
B6N1 Jill x 16
B7A2 Grace x 31
D4Y4 Judy x 83

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N1 Jill: 2 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
B7A2 Grace: 2 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 15 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Smalley
DD David Taylor, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Ross, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Robinson, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC-743, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AKA Tolland, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA Dutchess, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Watts, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Haggard, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Rowe
DD Jarvis II
SC-740
DD Hailey, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD The Sullivans
AKA Uvalde, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
APA Adair, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

11 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
17 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
5 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
15 x B6N1 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
14 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
11 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
6 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
6 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

quote:

Sub attack near Endeh at 65,114

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Torpedo hits 1
BB Hiei
DD Oyashio
DD Kuroshio
DD Shiokaze
DD Natsushio

Allied Ships
SS Swordfish, hits 1

quote:

Ground combat at Saipan (108,93)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 46853 troops, 1064 guns, 1055 vehicles, Assault Value = 1520

Defending force 25608 troops, 358 guns, 349 vehicles, Assault Value = 259

Allied adjusted assault: 1797

Japanese adjusted defense: 683

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1696 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 139 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 44 (14 destroyed, 30 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (2 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1499 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 122 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 38 (1 destroyed, 37 disabled)
Vehicles lost 26 (1 destroyed, 25 disabled)

quote:

Ground combat at Guam (106,95)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 43096 troops, 859 guns, 1473 vehicles, Assault Value = 1633

Defending force 28940 troops, 467 guns, 243 vehicles, Assault Value = 541

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 763

Japanese adjusted defense: 1797

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2218 casualties reported
Squads: 72 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 66 destroyed, 51 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 83 (14 destroyed, 69 disabled)
Vehicles lost 20 (6 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1208 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 109 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Vehicles lost 134 (48 destroyed, 86 disabled)

quote:

Here is the biggest strike. Erik has apparently decided to go all in on the Judy with its 800 kg bomb. To my knowledge this plane was never operated from a carrier and could never have taken off with a 800 kg bomb? But its sole purpose was as a Kami plane? Not sure how I should feel about this? Kosher?

quote:

Ground combat at Saipan (108,93)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1312 troops, 129 guns, 88 vehicles, Assault Value = 1370

Defending force 24602 troops, 345 guns, 347 vehicles, Assault Value = 210

Japanese ground losses:
356 casualties reported
Squads: 23 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

quote:

Ground combat at Guam (106,95)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1882 troops, 174 guns, 126 vehicles, Assault Value = 1439

Defending force 27181 troops, 457 guns, 238 vehicles, Assault Value = 461

Japanese ground losses:
239 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Here is the biggest strike. Erik has apparently decided to go all in on the Judy with its 800 kg bomb. To my knowledge this plane was never operated from a carrier and could never have taken off with a 800 kg bomb? But its sole purpose was as a Kami plane? Not sure how I should feel about this? Kosher?

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Babar at 76,117

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 43
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 53

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 10 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 10 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DE Coolbaugh
APA Harris, Kamikaze hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
APA John Penn
APA William P. Biddle, Kamikaze hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yeah, I don´t have a particular problem with it. Just curious what people think. Its not going to change much I hope.