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RE: Pricing Suggestion

 
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RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:57:24 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

And for the past 6 years Valve has proven this to be utterly and completely wrong. Volume of sales has proven to be so much more important than high unit price, and the entire PC gaming industry is undergoing a massive renaissance based on that simple principle. Except for certain parts of the wargaming community, who each year lag more and more behind.



Let's not revisit this again please. Please see my earlier link in this thread to the previous mega-thread on pricing where this was all discussed. There is no one size fits all pricing policy for all games in all genres anywhere.

Regards,

- Erik



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(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 151
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 11:07:07 PM   
Aurelian

 

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Status: offline 		The AARs convinced me..............................to buy it.

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Post #: 152
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 11:14:54 PM   
Nemo84

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Let's not revisit this again please. Please see my earlier link in this thread to the previous mega-thread on pricing where this was all discussed. There is no one size fits all pricing policy for all games in all genres anywhere.

Regards,

- Erik




So far that one pricing policy size has fitted every single one of the genres that has tried it, including several who also initially identified themselves as "niche genres for which that pricing policy will never fit", as was also pointed out in that thread iirc. And I'll deduce from their continued existence that the concept of a weekly sale is working out rather well for you guys, despite your years-long reluctance to even try it.

< Message edited by Nemo84 -- 9/24/2013 11:17:06 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 153
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 11:28:49 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

So far that one pricing policy size has fitted every single one of the genres that has tried it, including several who also initially identified themselves as "niche genres for which that pricing policy will never fit", as was also pointed out in that thread iirc. And I'll deduce from their continued existence that the concept of a weekly sale is working out rather well for you guys, despite your years-long reluctance to even try it.


With due respect, we've already had this discussion. Everything I could say has already been said in that previous thread and likewise for you I think. We are always watching the data and all inputs to determine the best price policy for each game and each developer, case by case, as it our responsibility as a publisher.

Regards,

- Erik



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Post #: 154
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 11:45:23 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Interesting about CM...CM base $60, CM:CW: $40, CM:2.0 $10, CM:MG $40 = $150 for only a small portion of the ground war in Europe. (Throw in $100 for Italy and you are at $250)



I don't know where you get these ridiculously high prices. Did Matrix start selling CM titles all of a sudden?

From the Battlefront store:
CM base + CM:CW: $55
CM:MG + CM2.0: $40

For a grand total of $95, which is still cheaper than this title despite including 2 expansion packs. The full Italy bundle is $75, for a total which is $80 cheaper than your claim. Some companies actually know the meaning of the words "discount" and "bundled price".


You're cheating...that is the bundle price for CM modules. Only available if you wait 3-6 months to buy it. I was off $5 on each, but if buy them within 3 months of release it was still $130. I can pull my receipts if you like. Again, that is covering only a small part of the war. There are probably less than 10% of the number of units.

My perspective is still that this is a greater value than CM and we get it all at once. No waiting 2 years. If you are into Naval over WW2 squad-level combat, this is a great deal over CM.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/24/2013 11:48:24 PM >

(in reply to Nemo84)
Post #: 155
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 11:50:14 PM   
dutchman55555

 

Posts: 139
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Status: offline 		$90 for a downloaded game is...breathtaking.

Unfortunately, not in a good way.

I was definitely hyped for this one, but the wind has been completely taken out of my sails.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 156
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 11:54:05 PM   
dutchman55555

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

You're cheating...that is the bundle price for CM modules. Only available if you wait 3-6 months to buy it. I was off $5 on each, but if buy them within 3 months of release it was still $130. I can pull my receipts if you like. Again, that is covering only a small part of the war. There are probably less than 10% of the number of units.



The point being that Battlefront at least gives discounts fairly quickly.

Following the Matrix model, this one will go on sale in approximately Autumn 2022.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 157
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 12:07:37 AM   
helm123456789

 

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Status: offline 		Too steep a price for me.

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Post #: 158
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 12:09:45 AM   
Wiz33

 

Posts: 147
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Status: offline 		Got the boxed version. I expect to play this for 100s if not 1000s of hours over many years like the original Harpoon. I may even put together a new i7 Win 8.1 PC for this.

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Post #: 159
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 12:12:50 AM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

You're cheating...that is the bundle price for CM modules. Only available if you wait 3-6 months to buy it. I was off $5 on each, but if buy them within 3 months of release it was still $130. I can pull my receipts if you like. Again, that is covering only a small part of the war. There are probably less than 10% of the number of units.



The point being that Battlefront at least gives discounts fairly quickly.

Following the Matrix model, this one will go on sale in approximately Autumn 2022.


Math error...this game is $80...you stated CMBN all up is $95 discounted. 95<80...and its spread over a couple years, and lesser content, except MP.

Let's even get into CMSF...$55+$30+$30+30...$145 spread over 3 years.

I'll pay my $80 now and get it all at once.

btw, it took almost 10 years for BFC to discount CMBB and CMAK.

- edited for my own math error


< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/25/2013 12:28:10 AM >

(in reply to dutchman55555)
Post #: 160
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 12:22:57 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		This game and Red Storm look like must-have's based on Matrix "Coming Soon" line-up. I am pretty sure the game that will release with no AI will be around $60, right? I admit I am a bit nervous about the intense install on this one, so will follow the tech forums. Good luck to all!

Ah...installed and running fine on my XP econobox quadcore. Thank you.

< Message edited by rosseau -- 9/25/2013 4:22:21 AM >

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Post #: 161
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 12:27:54 AM   
BletchleyGeek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555
Following the Matrix model, this one will go on sale in approximately Autumn 2022.


Which means you'll be able to get it sooner - by Spring 2014 - just tipping 1$ into a jar each week.

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Post #: 162
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 1:14:47 AM   
slick willy

 

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Status: offline 		Will have to pass on this too. Best of luck to the devs.

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Post #: 163
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 1:16:20 AM   
dutchman55555

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


Math error...this game is $80...



$88 CAD. The world is not centred on the USA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

btw, it took almost 10 years for BFC to discount CMBB and CMAK.



CMBN was released in May 2011, and discounted in December 2012.

I realize that since we are speaking of Matrix pricing your mind may be thinking back 10-15 years, but Battlefront has moved on. A shame Matrix won't.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 164
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 1:54:02 AM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		SO I doublechecked...in US $ to be consistent.

Original CMBN - $55, Original CW module - $35, Upgrade to 2.0 - $10, MG module - $35 = $145 if bought within three to six months of release

Bundles - As much as you can bundle right now $95...in today's US $

CMBN was discounted specifically when the 2.0 update came out.

So again, I'll point out one more time. Command - $80 US, CMBN full up with bundles today - $95 US, Bought on each product release $145 US

CMBN total at release $145 > CMBN today bundles - $95 > Command on release $80

Doesn't matter what currency you use, CMBN bought as each module released is almost twice as much as Command. I am going to go over to the BFC forum and see if I see where you complained about pricing there.

CMBN does have MP so maybe that justified the extra $65 on release.

edit...btw, it took BFC almost 10 years to lower the prices on CMBO. It took them almost 4 years to discount CMSF.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/25/2013 2:04:01 AM >

(in reply to dutchman55555)
Post #: 165
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:03:49 AM   
dutchman55555

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

inaccessible is never being able to afford something. So a game that is only $20-$30 above the average is hardly inaccessible. A Maybach is inaccessible because no matter how long you save, it is still unaffordable.



To use your automobile analogy, "only $20-$30 above the average" would equate to being urged to buy a $32 000 car in a class which was normally $24 000, with assurances it was worth the extra price but not even a test drive allowed before purchase.

Matrix has regularly stated that a major reason why their games are so pricey is because "customers wouldn't appreciate a product if it was priced lower".

Well I'm seeing as many "Sorry, pass" comments as offers to purchase...and this from the Matrix community itself.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 166
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:05:15 AM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		So is the $95 from CMBN, even discounted inaccessible?

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Post #: 167
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:07:24 AM   
thewood1

 

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Status: offline 		The other funny thing is that 2-3 of the people complaining about the price have now bought it.

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Post #: 168
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:17:19 AM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


Doesn't matter what currency you use, CMBN bought as each module released is almost twice as much as Command. I am going to go over to the BFC forum and see if I see where you complained about pricing there.



Went there. Didn't see any.

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Post #: 169
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:20:27 AM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Funny how this thread about a game just released by one company turned into a shouting match over another game released by a different company.

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RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:21:45 AM   
dutchman55555

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

SO I doublechecked...in US $ to be consistent.

Original CMBN - $55, Original CW module - $35, Upgrade to 2.0 - $10, MG module - $35 = $145 if bought within three to six months of release



Your point would be valid if Matrix had any plans to permanently discount Command 9-12 months after release. Everyone reading this knows there won't even be a sale on it for the next 3-4 years, let alone a permanently reduced price. (And I think I'm being generous at 3-4 years, just as I found I was too generous predicting that Command would be released at $68-$78.)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

CMBN was discounted specifically when the 2.0 update came out.


Correct, but it was the second price drop. I bought CMBN:CW bundle at the reduced price of $65 in September, 2012, when I finally got a PC capable of running it. 2.0 only came out several months later.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
edit...btw, it took BFC almost 10 years to lower the prices on CMBO. It took them almost 4 years to discount CMSF.


And it took them 19 months to reduce the price on CMBN. See a pattern?

BTW, CMSF was regularly on sale at Gamer's Gate for a decent price, which is when I snagged it. Letting other sites not owned by your company sell your products...what a unique idea.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 171
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:24:00 AM   
kentcol

 

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Status: offline 		Probably a good game but $80? I'm out.

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Post #: 172
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:26:10 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
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Status: offline 		I have no problem with the pricing argument being about short term revenue over long term cash flow and concerns about longevity.

But to come in and just whine about the price of a product being too high and then walk over to another company and pay more for an older product makes no sense to me.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 173
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:26:33 AM   
dutchman55555

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


Doesn't matter what currency you use, CMBN bought as each module released is almost twice as much as Command. I am going to go over to the BFC forum and see if I see where you complained about pricing there.



Went there. Didn't see any.


Didn't own a computer capable of running CMBN until a year ago, so I had no stake in it. As it is I still haven't purchased CMFI because the price drop for the bundle isn't significant enough yet. But no sense in "complaining about pricing" to a developer/distributor I know will reduce the price in an acceptable period of time. I might as well complain to Valve that they have some nerve selling the products of other companies...

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Post #: 174
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:27:18 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
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Status: offline 		So you never answered my question...is the $95 for CMBN inaccessible?

So $65 plus the $10 upgrade is $75...only $5 cheaper than Command. So either you aren't going to buy anymore CMBN modules, or you will end up spending more than on Command. Even if MG discounts to $25 in a year, that is still more than Command will ever be totaled up.

I am totally confused by your logic. Even after 4 years if they discount to CMSF levels, your most likely still talking $65-$70. Not only that, BFC charged for an upgrade, something some people are fired up that it might be a possibility with Command.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/25/2013 2:33:52 AM >

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Post #: 175
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:28:46 AM   
Vyshka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555
.... but the wind has been completely taken out of my sails.


Wrong genre. I think you want Sid Meier's Pirates! :)

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Post #: 176
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:35:51 AM   
Rob322

 

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Status: offline 		So what is this CMBN and how is it relevant to this game?

As for Command, the price is the price. Too much for some, not so for others. I didn't know what the price would be but I thought it was going to be expensive. After seeing the amount of detail in the previews and videos over the last year or so, the price, to me, doesn't surprise.

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Post #: 177
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:37:17 AM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Funny how this thread about a game just released by one company turned into a shouting match over another game released by a different company.


Actually its the only way to deflate the pricing arguments. Command is not over-priced when compared to other complex wargames.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 178
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:47:22 AM   
dutchman55555

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

So you never answered my question...is the $95 for CMBN inaccessible?

So $65 plus the $10 upgrade is $75...only $5 cheaper than Command. So either you aren't going to buy anymore CMBN modules, or you will end up spending more than on Command. Even if MG discounts to $25 in a year, that is still more than Command will ever be totaled up.

I am totally confused by your logic. Even after 4 years if they discount to CMSF levels, your most likely still talking $65-$70. Not only that, BFC charged for an upgrade, something some people are fired up that it might be a possibility with Command.


You're confused that I continue to buy additional parts of an ever-expanding series (when they reach a price point I find acceptable), as opposed to a single purchase product with a price I find awe-inspiring?

There is a philosophy, held by many even within the Matrix community, that the higher Matrix prices things, the more sales they lose, and the more people they scare away from the hobby. And pricing a new release at $90 absolutely guarantees that anyone who is entertaining the idea of entering the PC wargaming hobby will take a pass. And left with the impression that the hobby is that expensive, they will most likely walk away for good.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 179
RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/25/2013 2:49:24 AM   
dutchman55555

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/21/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Actually its the only way to deflate the pricing arguments. Command is not over-priced when compared to other complex wargames.


Really. A list of comparably priced, current, equally complex, non-Matrix PC wargames would be appreciated.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 180
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