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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Getting killed over Rangoon

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Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:03:53 PM

coreyjones

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Joined: 11/18/2012
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So I am playing as the Japanese scen 2 on very hard and it's still December. Does the very hard setting make the allied fighters better or something because my zeros are getting a 1:1 kill ratio with p-40's and I get the jump and my pilots are super well rested and everything but those damned p-40's. how do I correct this. I am tired of losing 10 zeros every turn this early in the game.

Post #: 1

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:17:46 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Yes. On Very Hard, the computer gets a boost in combat. Raise your Zeroes to max altitude on the sweep and you might fare better... Or simply wait until you can overwhelm them with numbers. If you're fighting the AVG, the AVG pilots are actually pretty high quality for early war Allied guys.

(in reply to coreyjones)

Post #: 2

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:22:17 PM

coreyjones

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Joined: 11/18/2012
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It's the avg. I have no problem with the boys in the phillipines. But the computer has stacked all three squadrons in Rangoon with them on 100% cap. So I am going up against 45 -60 p-40's at a time with 27-35 zeros. Most of my planes are write offs but the losses are starting to hurt. I guess I'll just have to dwindle down their numbers until they run out of replacements.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 3

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:29:40 PM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
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From: Kansas
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That isn't a-historical. First sqdrn of the AVG was based in Rangoon for a while and gave the Japanese fits. I believe the other two sqdrn's rotated in and out as well.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to coreyjones)

Post #: 4

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:30:59 PM

1EyedJacks

Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
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quote:

ORIGINAL: srv24243

It's the avg. I have no problem with the boys in the phillipines. But the computer has stacked all three squadrons in Rangoon with them on 100% cap. So I am going up against 45 -60 p-40's at a time with 27-35 zeros. Most of my planes are write offs but the losses are starting to hurt. I guess I'll just have to dwindle down their numbers until they run out of replacements.

Ugh! In my experience as a player of Japan, the words more and bigger are best used when going up against the allies. I've found that taking the short end of 2:1 odds on a regular basis is not a productive means to maintaining a strong pool of high-experienced pilots...

But it's a great game - yes?

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TTFN,

Mike

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Post #: 5

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:31:56 PM

coreyjones

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Could night bombing the bejesus out of the airstrip maybe ruin it enough to lower their ops?

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RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 4:42:56 PM

1EyedJacks

Posts: 2244
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From: The Eastern Sierras
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quote:

ORIGINAL: srv24243

Could night bombing the bejesus out of the airstrip maybe ruin it enough to lower their ops?

Yup - it sure could. High altitude Sweeps, as recommended by Lokasenna, are a good ploy also. I still would bring more Zeroes to the fight tho. There's just something comforting about bringing the biggest stick to a stick fight.

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TTFN,

Mike

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RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 5:16:22 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes. On Very Hard, the computer gets a boost in combat.

I don't know that that has ever been stated by a dev. What has been stated is:

Hard = 50% bonus to supply and production
Very Hard = 100% bonus to supply and production

Now how those bonuses are implemented also has not been clarified that I know of.

I agree, it appears that on higher difficulty levels the AI fights better, but that could be due to either being in better supply OR getting a bonus on the in supply check OR they did get an actual combat bonus OR any combination of these OR MORE. There are so many modifiers involved in combat, I can't sort them out.

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Pax

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Post #: 8

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 6:10:52 PM

Lokasenna

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It's right here, clear as purple crayon!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Page 26

>>Hard - Computer is given some logistical advantages.
>>Very Hard - Computer is given some logistical and combat advantages.

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Post #: 9

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 6:28:32 PM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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I would avoid doing night strikes against the AI. Especially against the airfields. I have found that the AI can�t really counter that. At least that was true when I played the AI last time.

Do as Lokasenna suggest. Sweep at max altitude and you will prevail!

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 10

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 7:13:36 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It's right here, clear as purple crayon!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Page 26

>>Hard - Computer is given some logistical advantages.
>>Very Hard - Computer is given some logistical and combat advantages.

Ah, good to know. Don't know why Blackhorse didn't mention that in his reply ...

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Pax

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Post #: 11

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 7:25:10 PM

Mike Solli

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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Send in a bombardment group of CAs on consecutive days. The first will damage a bunch of the fighters and the second will finish them off. Use 2 different bombardment groups because they use up just about all their ammo in one bombardment.

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Post #: 12

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 7:42:44 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes. On Very Hard, the computer gets a boost in combat.

I don't know that that has ever been stated by a dev. What has been stated is:

Hard = 50% bonus to supply and production
Very Hard = 100% bonus to supply and production

Now how those bonuses are implemented also has not been clarified that I know of.

I agree, it appears that on higher difficulty levels the AI fights better, but that could be due to either being in better supply OR getting a bonus on the in supply check OR they did get an actual combat bonus OR any combination of these OR MORE. There are so many modifiers involved in combat, I can't sort them out.

Ancillary, but I also believe the AI does not prep or need PPs.

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The Moose

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 13

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 7:45:53 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes. On Very Hard, the computer gets a boost in combat.

I don't know that that has ever been stated by a dev. What has been stated is:

Hard = 50% bonus to supply and production
Very Hard = 100% bonus to supply and production

Now how those bonuses are implemented also has not been clarified that I know of.

I agree, it appears that on higher difficulty levels the AI fights better, but that could be due to either being in better supply OR getting a bonus on the in supply check OR they did get an actual combat bonus OR any combination of these OR MORE. There are so many modifiers involved in combat, I can't sort them out.

Ancillary, but I also believe the AI does not prep or need PPs.

Or to maintain the Manchukuo garrison requirements...

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 14

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 8:02:12 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes. On Very Hard, the computer gets a boost in combat.

I don't know that that has ever been stated by a dev. What has been stated is:

Hard = 50% bonus to supply and production
Very Hard = 100% bonus to supply and production

Now how those bonuses are implemented also has not been clarified that I know of.

I agree, it appears that on higher difficulty levels the AI fights better, but that could be due to either being in better supply OR getting a bonus on the in supply check OR they did get an actual combat bonus OR any combination of these OR MORE. There are so many modifiers involved in combat, I can't sort them out.

Ancillary, but I also believe the AI does not prep or need PPs.

Or to maintain the Manchukuo garrison requirements...

Yep. A big help for it.

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The Moose

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Post #: 15

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/28/2013 10:04:02 PM

PaxMondo

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It also ignores unit restrictions, it can ship any unit anywhere it chooses. It cannot ship a static unit though.

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Pax

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Post #: 16

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/29/2013 2:09:50 AM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Send in a bombardment group of CAs on consecutive days. The first will damage a bunch of the fighters and the second will finish them off. Use 2 different bombardment groups because they use up just about all their ammo in one bombardment.

Be careful doing that Rangoon starts with a Minefield.

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 17

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/29/2013 6:34:32 AM

Mike Solli

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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Send in a bombardment group of CAs on consecutive days. The first will damage a bunch of the fighters and the second will finish them off. Use 2 different bombardment groups because they use up just about all their ammo in one bombardment.

Be careful doing that Rangoon starts with a Minefield.

Yes, definitely a bummer.

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Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 18

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/29/2013 11:39:26 AM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Send in a bombardment group of CAs on consecutive days. The first will damage a bunch of the fighters and the second will finish them off. Use 2 different bombardment groups because they use up just about all their ammo in one bombardment.

On very hard the AI has knowledge of your actions and therefore might evacuate the fighters and LRCAP from a nearby airfield. Naturally, using bombers to close rangoon airfield might be a good idea then.

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Surface combat TF fanboy

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Post #: 19

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/29/2013 12:42:37 PM

Mike Solli

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Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Damn AI!

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Post #: 20

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/30/2013 4:43:16 AM

olperfessor

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From: New York, N.Y.
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What? Someone plays the Japanese side, and actually selects hard? Isn't that just Kamikazi crazy?

I am ready to start a new solo AE game as Japan, but I cannot figure out the aircraft engine system. I worry that by mid-1942 I will discover that I have utterly blundered, and will get only a few Claudes and Sallys for the rest of the war.

(in reply to coreyjones)

Post #: 21

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/30/2013 12:06:02 PM

HansBolter

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The OP is facing the best pilots the US has at game start (AVG) coupled with the combat bonus of the very hard setting.

To the poster above:

The AI is incredibly easy to defeat. It's not an artificial intelligence that learns and reacts. It is a set of scripts that the game engine executes. Many players who play the AI not only play on hard or very hard we also play what are called Ironman scenarios that give the AI a huge boost in ahistorical extra units. All this is done to give the AI a better chance of giving a thinking human being a decent game.

There are Ironman scenarios for both sides. I am currently playing IronBabes C with extended map and stacking limits which is an Allied side against a beefed up Japan. I know Pax plays the Allied Iroman scenario by Andymac whcich pits the Japanese against a beefed up Allied side.

Beefing up the AI side gives it more units to lose before becoming unviable as an opponent.

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Hans

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Post #: 22

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/30/2013 3:52:27 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I've discovered that the biggest trouble with playing against the Allied AI is that it likes to start up its counteroffensive sooner than it has the forces to do so... In a couple of games, I had Midway-type battles in late '42 and came out on top (pilot quality IMO), and then the AI decides to send its amphibious landings in with no air cover because it has no CVs or too few escorts in early '43... I've found it necessary to simply stop practicing offensive ops and practice retreating instead, simply because otherwise I'll be loading up in head-to-head mode every 3 days forever. I still have to load up in head-to-head pretty often to force the AI to conserve its forces for several more months of game time.

Treasure these early days when the AVG is beating you up, because they won't last forever.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 23

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 9/30/2013 4:25:42 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: olperfessor

What? Someone plays the Japanese side, and actually selects hard? Isn't that just Kamikazi crazy?

I am ready to start a new solo AE game as Japan, but I cannot figure out the aircraft engine system. I worry that by mid-1942 I will discover that I have utterly blundered, and will get only a few Claudes and Sallys for the rest of the war.

You should check out my Production Primer for Japan. It may help with your game planning

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

(in reply to olperfessor)

Post #: 24

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 10/1/2013 2:40:42 AM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The OP is facing the best pilots the US has at game start (AVG) coupled with the combat bonus of the very hard setting.

To the poster above:

The AI is incredibly easy to defeat. It's not an artificial intelligence that learns and reacts. It is a set of scripts that the game engine executes. Many players who play the AI not only play on hard or very hard we also play what are called Ironman scenarios that give the AI a huge boost in ahistorical extra units. All this is done to give the AI a better chance of giving a thinking human being a decent game.

There are Ironman scenarios for both sides. I am currently playing IronBabes C with extended map and stacking limits which is an Allied side against a beefed up Japan. I know Pax plays the Allied Iroman scenario by Andymac whcich pits the Japanese against a beefed up Allied side.

Beefing up the AI side gives it more units to lose before becoming unviable as an opponent.

Now Hans,

Be kind to the AI.

In the WITP days, I had a few PBEM opponents that would make the AI seem brilliant by comparison.

Additionally, the AI never disappears into thin air when the going gets tough no matter what scenario you are playing.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 25

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 10/1/2013 3:16:35 AM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I know Pax plays the Allied Iroman scenario by Andymac whcich pits the Japanese against a beefed up Allied side.

Andy has 3 levels of Ironman, currently playing his "insane" version.

"Beware of Dorniers"

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Pax

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RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 10/1/2013 12:25:29 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feltan

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The OP is facing the best pilots the US has at game start (AVG) coupled with the combat bonus of the very hard setting.

To the poster above:

The AI is incredibly easy to defeat. It's not an artificial intelligence that learns and reacts. It is a set of scripts that the game engine executes. Many players who play the AI not only play on hard or very hard we also play what are called Ironman scenarios that give the AI a huge boost in ahistorical extra units. All this is done to give the AI a better chance of giving a thinking human being a decent game.

There are Ironman scenarios for both sides. I am currently playing IronBabes C with extended map and stacking limits which is an Allied side against a beefed up Japan. I know Pax plays the Allied Iroman scenario by Andymac whcich pits the Japanese against a beefed up Allied side.

Beefing up the AI side gives it more units to lose before becoming unviable as an opponent.

Now Hans,

Be kind to the AI.

In the WITP days, I had a few PBEM opponents that would make the AI seem brilliant by comparison.

Additionally, the AI never disappears into thin air when the going gets tough no matter what scenario you are playing.

Regards,
Feltan

Trust me, I'm very kind to the AI. I routinely give it mulligans to undo its disasters and keep it viable. I was just trying to make the point that it has definite limitations and needs to both get all the help it can in the way of beefed up forces and be coddled by the player who keeps one hand tied behind his back.

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Hans

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Post #: 27

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 10/1/2013 12:34:26 PM

HansBolter

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Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I know Pax plays the Allied Iroman scenario by Andymac whcich pits the Japanese against a beefed up Allied side.

Andy has 3 levels of Ironman, currently playing his "insane" version.

"Beware of Dorniers"

Andymac's newest Ironman versions are indeed "insane". I started his Ironman Nasty version for the Allied player, but after sinking about 4 hours into the Allied December 8th turn, I discovered that the base at Perth was missing and I refused to play the game out with that bug. I never bothered to report it to Andy.

In truth, I have become so enamored with the very, very different LCU counter mix in Babes Ironman that it's tough for me to want to go back to a stock LCU counter mix. I made the jump from the A to the C variant which places large cuts not only in shipping capacities, but also cuts the legs off many, many ships requiring significant adjustment on which ship classes get assigned the longest leg missions.

I also jumped to the extended map with stacking limits in the same game and that has a tremendous impact on game play. No more mountains of units at mega deathstar bases.

I'm thinking now of adding Gnarly Asian Roads to my next game. The continuing development of this game is absolutely incredible and my hat is off to all those involved in it's evolution.

_____________________________

Hans

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Post #: 28

RE: Getting killed over Rangoon - 10/2/2013 1:46:09 AM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
I know Pax plays the Allied Iroman scenario by Andymac whcich pits the Japanese against a beefed up Allied side.

Andy has 3 levels of Ironman, currently playing his "insane" version.

"Beware of Dorniers"

Andymac's newest Ironman versions are indeed "insane". I started his Ironman Nasty version for the Allied player, but after sinking about 4 hours into the Allied December 8th turn, I discovered that the base at Perth was missing and I refused to play the game out with that bug. I never bothered to report it to Andy.

In truth, I have become so enamored with the very, very different LCU counter mix in Babes Ironman that it's tough for me to want to go back to a stock LCU counter mix. I made the jump from the A to the C variant which places large cuts not only in shipping capacities, but also cuts the legs off many, many ships requiring significant adjustment on which ship classes get assigned the longest leg missions.

I also jumped to the extended map with stacking limits in the same game and that has a tremendous impact on game play. No more mountains of units at mega deathstar bases.

I'm thinking now of adding Gnarly Asian Roads to my next game. The continuing development of this game is absolutely incredible and my hat is off to all those involved in it's evolution.

I concur on the LCU's, and the ship ranges -- adds a whole new dynamic.

I added the Asian Roads mod as well. Not so much on that one. I frankly don't see a whole lot of difference in the sense that it just reinforces what usually happens wrt axis of advance and logistical tails.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 29