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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940

 
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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 3:22:39 PM   
composer99


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bo:

You are correct about Oslo and invading hexes from the sea in general. In order for a hex to be invadeable it must have at least one full hexside as an all-sea hexside. So, in the screenshot shown, Oslo is not invadeable, but Copenhagen and most of the other hexes on the Norwegian coast are.

With respect to keeping the Norwegian fleet from escaping to the UK, what you would want to do as the Germans is send ships out to block every escape route their ships might have. For best results, invade their fleet bases during the surprise impulse then intercept the fleeing ships that escape the overrun.

This isn't easy to do in a combined impulse, or with the Royal Navy breathing down your neck if you sail to the North Sea or Norwegian Coast, so I suspect you would usually send submarines out to perform this task.

(Finally, I should note that any Norwegian naval units setting up in Oslo are doomed if the Germans have control of Denmark and seize Kristiansand, since they won't be able to escape the Baltic Sea.)

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 3:36:13 PM   
Klydon


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I think it shows a second unit with the Paras with them in Norway. Is that the transport plane that took them or something else?

Also, I was wondering what the blue circle was on the HE-115? Denotes a float plane?

Appreciate the work on this stuff Bo. Thanks!

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 32
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 7:38:40 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

bo:

You are correct about Oslo and invading hexes from the sea in general. In order for a hex to be invadeable it must have at least one full hexside as an all-sea hexside. So, in the screenshot shown, Oslo is not invadeable, but Copenhagen and most of the other hexes on the Norwegian coast are.

With respect to keeping the Norwegian fleet from escaping to the UK, what you would want to do as the Germans is send ships out to block every escape route their ships might have. For best results, invade their fleet bases during the surprise impulse then intercept the fleeing ships that escape the overrun.

This isn't easy to do in a combined impulse, or with the Royal Navy breathing down your neck if you sail to the North Sea or Norwegian Coast, so I suspect you would usually send submarines out to perform this task.

(Finally, I should note that any Norwegian naval units setting up in Oslo are doomed if the Germans have control of Denmark and seize Kristiansand, since they won't be able to escape the Baltic Sea.)



Damn composser I should have set all those ships up in Oslo Oh well dumb me.

Bo

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 33
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 7:41:44 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I think it shows a second unit with the Paras with them in Norway. Is that the transport plane that took them or something else?

Also, I was wondering what the blue circle was on the HE-115? Denotes a float plane?

Appreciate the work on this stuff Bo. Thanks!



Thank you for that comment, ego is still a little bruised

The other unit is a Hs 123 single engine bi-wing bomber capable of delivering 995 lbs of ordanance. I am not a very modern Air wing commander I only used it because it had a range of 4 but it does have a medium ground attack factor of 2.

He 115c is a float plane the blue circle denotes that, and the 2 is it's air to sea factor [bombing capablites of ships for new readers] Also it can only base on a land hex next to a sea hex I believe.

After the transport plane delivers the Paras it must return to its base or another base close by which I had done already.

Ask any question you want because I now have a Guru backing me up who shall remain nameless and faceless

Bo






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< Message edited by bo -- 9/29/2013 8:00:14 PM >

(in reply to Klydon)
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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 7:42:05 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Also, I was wondering what the blue circle was on the HE-115? Denotes a float plane?


Indicates a flying boat (WiF term). aka float plane, seaplane

They can operate from any coastal hex or lake hex. However, bad things can happen if the lake freezes.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 9/29/2013 7:43:29 PM >


_____________________________

Paul

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Post #: 35
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 8:03:38 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Also, I was wondering what the blue circle was on the HE-115? Denotes a float plane?


Indicates a flying boat (WiF term). aka float plane, seaplane

They can operate from any coastal hex or lake hex. However, bad things can happen if the lake freezes.



Thanks paul, beat you to it and thats a first after 400 tries. I always forget the word coastal hex.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/29/2013 9:45:26 PM >

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 36
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 9:04:25 PM   
bo

 

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Zoomed out to show both Norway with German troops just outside of Oslo and the German units in Amsterdam which means The Netherlands have fallen to the Germans. The ships in port will flee to England when I move German troops into the port of Rotterdam.

Bo







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< Message edited by bo -- 9/29/2013 9:13:32 PM >

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 37
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 9:14:27 PM   
bo

 

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In testing I tried different setups for Belgium forces, in the long run it wont matter anyway. I tried using the 2 rivers the Maas and the Dyle as barriers against a German invasion. For new readers attacking units crossing a river have their attack factors halved unless there is a engineer unit near by, I could use help on that one. [Engineers or combat engineers, helping out]

Question I notice the Belgian counters are black and their indicators are white, which signifies elite units but I doubt that these units are elite, I guess Steve would not put black lettering on black counters [MAYBE] Dont know the answer to that one elite or not elite. In testing I have never attacked Belgium this late, the May/June turn but I wanted to wait for the Paras to show them in action.

Oh well Barbarossa in 1944 wont be too bad I guess.

Bo








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< Message edited by bo -- 9/29/2013 9:33:13 PM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 9:52:56 PM   
Ur_Vile_WEdge

 

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If I may be so bold, I'd suggest putting the cavalry in Lille, and the 2 infantry in separate stacks by the French border.

That way, the ability of the Germans to groundstrike is limited, and next impulse, the Brits and the French can move up, forming a coherent line along the Dyle.

The way you've got it setup, the Germans can ooze up, putting guys on the resource hex and on the one that's on the Dutch-Belgian border, and attack Brussels on the surprise impulse, so no river bonus and no chance of sending support.



The main reason to attack the Netherlands is to start the invasion with guys in Rotterdam, so that way, the Belgians have to try to hold in Amsterdam, which you can attack from two hexes.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 39
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/29/2013 11:31:25 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

If I may be so bold, I'd suggest putting the cavalry in Lille, and the 2 infantry in separate stacks by the French border.

That way, the ability of the Germans to groundstrike is limited, and next impulse, the Brits and the French can move up, forming a coherent line along the Dyle.

The way you've got it setup, the Germans can ooze up, putting guys on the resource hex and on the one that's on the Dutch-Belgian border, and attack Brussels on the surprise impulse, so no river bonus and no chance of sending support.





The main reason to attack the Netherlands is to start the invasion with guys in Rotterdam, so that way, the Belgians have to try to hold in Amsterdam, which you can attack from two hexes.


I want you to be bold. Hmm "ooze up" first time I ever heard that military tactic. Sounds good, hey Im not out to lose to no Belgians thats for sure. Remember I can call on one of the greatest tacticle move ever tried in computer war game, turn off the computer if I'm in trouble.

See you may never get a game Ur_Vile, nobody will want to play you, but me, they are all ready lining up.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 3:58:17 AM >

(in reply to Ur_Vile_WEdge)
Post #: 40
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 1:45:13 AM   
bo

 

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Remember this is just a "demo" Thank you

I am attacking the Belgians with the some of the best German corps in the game and the outcome is not in doubt.

Even though I am attacking the Belgian 5/3 corp on the other side of the Maas the Germans are hitting with enormous power.

There is a French fighter that could escort the French bomber 2 hexse northwest that could intervene to assist the Belgian 4/3 corp, also across the channel there is several CW bombers that also could intervene.

Remember I never played the board game, so I am not sure about all available tactics by experienced players, but if I was the French and the CW player I do not think I would intervene. My reasoning, the situation is not good for the Belgians, putting it mildly and I have a slew of good German fighters just waiting for that move. And besides the French and CW are going to need every asset they can lay their hands on to defend France and maybe Sealion.

Also I can and might show an air battle with this same scenario you are looking at but it will be a demo of air to air, which I am going to do more of instead of an AAR. Others can do AAR's better than I can because they know all the rules. I have not moved French
force into Belgian for a reason, the French were defensive minded not offensive oriented.

I realize this is a computer game and you players are not the French High command, but I mostly wanted to hone my attacks against the French forces on the Belgian border. Did not always go well

Bo







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< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 3:59:27 AM >

(in reply to composer99)
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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 2:18:48 AM   
bo

 

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This screen depicts the German attack on Oslo, I did a flyout to show you the German air power attacking Oslo. 2 German corps are attacking a Nordic elite mountain corp in Oslo, I do not like endangering my valuable Paras but I need them to get slighly better odds than I had without them.

I read intently about how most experienced players most likely would not attack Norway, too many downsides and I agree with them I just wanted to show you how it might be accomplished. The other possible downside with this attack is the fact I have 4 air fleets in Norway that are really needed for the attack on Belgian and France.

Now this is a fast start game, this game was not set up by me, nothing wrong with that just a fact, the optional rules here are novice rules, but one of those rules has tremendous impact for the Germans [Extended aircraft rebasing rule] on the re-airbase impulse I can rebase all of my planes if their eligilble, to triple the range that is printed on the plane counter. That means before the next phase of the May/June turn I will be able to bring all of these units into Belgium.

I have to check and see if they become disorganized though, but even if they become disorganized I have 4 HQ units in and near Belgium that can reorganize a few or all of them.

Bo





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< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 3:10:44 AM >

(in reply to composer99)
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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 2:51:05 AM   
bo

 

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This is the Combat Subphase sequence. It shows the three battles about to be decided and their odds, you can decide these battles in any sequence you so choose. it gives you where the battle is being fought. You first choose which battle is first and then you are directed to pick a combat table either Assault or Blitz. I mostly use assault, why, I find Blitz too bloody too much damage but thats just my opinion.

Liege and Brussels are givens, no hope, Oslo is pretty much decided but a bad roll and Some German units could get disorganized and even possible if I remember right you might lose a unit, I did not check any charts when I wrote this so I could be wrong.

Below you see the defending unit in Red an elite mountain unit and below that unit are the attacking units, you see under each unit the word [No effect] that will change as soon as you pick Assault or Blitz and push the compute button. To your right is the 1-D-10 charts, single die, after the losses are calculated you can click on that button and see the die roll and the outcome. [unit destroyed, unit disorganized, unit shattered or unit retreat] The German VII mech unit has just moved into the hex that has vacated by the destroyed Belgian unit.

Bo








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< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 4:04:49 AM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 3:12:19 AM   
bo

 

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The first phase of the attack on Belgium went well, 2 Belgium units destroyed in the initial attack, I have good German corps across the Naas and the Dyle, Belgium is doomed and France is next. There is a Belgian unit in Antwerp but it is almost isolated, but the unit could escape west to France.






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< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 4:06:23 AM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 3:22:26 AM   
bo

 

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This screen shows the German 6/4 corp moving into Oslo after the Mountain unit was destroyed. What you are seeing on the left is all the vessels in the port of Oslo trying to flee but it is too late, They have no where to flee too because the Baltic sea is a German sea now and there is no escape. I know there is a better explanation than that.

Each unit is clicked on and there is a die roll to decide if the unit is captured by the Germans for future use or destroyed, truthfully I clicked it so fast I do not know who did what, and really dont care right now, but I will care against a human player playing for real.

Top left ship with a white border is the first ship of the die roll and the popup is the decision, each ship goes through the same decisons.

Bo








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< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 3:34:00 AM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 3:35:52 AM   
bo

 

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I really did not need to do this screen, but I moved the Para unit into Oslo and will bring my air transport unit to Oslo to pick up the Para unit and bring back to where it can be used again later in the battle of France, the Nordic ships west of Oslo can escape to England on the next allied move. Norway is conquered but it will not shjow up conquered until the end of the May/June turn.

Meanwhile if you were to turn on the little flags in each hex only those hexes that a German corp unit passed through will show the German flag, all other hexes will show Nordic flags. which means German air power cannot land on any hex that does not have the German flag on it, At the end of this turn all hexes will have the German flag in it.

This flag shows owenership of that hex and can be turned off and on at will.

Bo




Bo







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< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 3:46:51 AM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 10:22:30 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

I am going to end this AAR or demo here. You can see the enormous power of the German armies going up against the French, it is not a cakewalk like Poland but one German breach and it is all over. Please go to Orms AAR, with his knowledge of the rules he is able to show a different way to do an AAR correctly.

What I tried to do was just show the game from the German viewpoint, I also beta test from the allied point of view. But early in the war there really is not much action from the allied unless you are doing Global war and then you have combat between the Chinese and the Japanese.

Why I chose the German side was because I believe it is Germany that sets the timetable early on, it is Germany that the allies have to react to whenever Germany decides to do something. So again Germany sets the pace and the Allies react.

I am not a quitter, it's just that I know when to turn the reins over to Orm and composser. I will start doing individul attacks air to air etc.

Bo










< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 10:46:41 PM >

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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 10:56:59 PM   
WIF_Killzone

 

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Thanks for all this Bo. There is one thing that has always bothered me, the screen below depicts an attack that is about to occur and yet beside each counter it says "No effect" like the attack has already happened, it drives me nuts. Steve, are you listening, its my only complaint, ever!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

This is the Combat Subphase sequence. It shows the three battles about to be decided and their odds, you can decide these battles in any sequence you so choose. it gives you where the battle is being fought. You first choose which battle is first and then you are directed to pick a combat table either Assault or Blitz. I mostly use assault, why, I find Blitz too bloody too much damage but thats just my opinion.

Liege and Brussels are givens, no hope, Oslo is pretty much decided but a bad roll and Some German units could get disorganized and even possible if I remember right you might lose a unit, I did not check any charts when I wrote this so I could be wrong.

Below you see the defending unit in Red an elite mountain unit and below that unit are the attacking units, you see under each unit the word [No effect] that will change as soon as you pick Assault or Blitz and push the compute button. To your right is the 1-D-10 charts, single die, after the losses are calculated you can click on that button and see the die roll and the outcome. [unit destroyed, unit disorganized, unit shattered or unit retreat] The German VII mech unit has just moved into the hex that has vacated by the destroyed Belgian unit.

Bo









(in reply to bo)
Post #: 48
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 11:04:52 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Thanks for all this Bo. There is one thing that has always bothered me, the screen below depicts an attack that is about to occur and yet beside each counter it says "No effect" like the attack has already happened, it drives me nuts. Steve, are you listening, its my only complaint, ever!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

This is the Combat Subphase sequence. It shows the three battles about to be decided and their odds, you can decide these battles in any sequence you so choose. it gives you where the battle is being fought. You first choose which battle is first and then you are directed to pick a combat table either Assault or Blitz. I mostly use assault, why, I find Blitz too bloody too much damage but thats just my opinion.

Liege and Brussels are givens, no hope, Oslo is pretty much decided but a bad roll and Some German units could get disorganized and even possible if I remember right you might lose a unit, I did not check any charts when I wrote this so I could be wrong.

Below you see the defending unit in Red an elite mountain unit and below that unit are the attacking units, you see under each unit the word [No effect] that will change as soon as you pick Assault or Blitz and push the compute button. To your right is the 1-D-10 charts, single die, after the losses are calculated you can click on that button and see the die roll and the outcome. [unit destroyed, unit disorganized, unit shattered or unit retreat] The German VII mech unit has just moved into the hex that has vacated by the destroyed Belgian unit.

Bo


Hi Killzone

I tried to explain it above, but I am not that good at this, the no effect is correct IMO as of yet there is no combat, as soon as combat is over that no effect will change to either no effect again meaning no one got destroyed or disorganized or had to retreat. I would think that wouuld be rare or never. If a unit gets destroyed it will say on their counter destroyed or retreated or scattered.









< Message edited by bo -- 9/30/2013 11:11:23 PM >

(in reply to WIF_Killzone)
Post #: 49
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 11:15:18 PM   
WIF_Killzone

 

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Thanks Bo, its still pisses me off but your description helps, it will quickly (like in two seconds of games play) get used to it.

(in reply to bo)
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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 11:20:04 PM   
bo

 

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This is in a reply to a question by Killzone about the wording of no effect on the counters shown.




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RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 9/30/2013 11:23:22 PM   
richholling

 

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This is looking really good, and you have to invade Norway, no option in my humble opinion.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 52
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 10/1/2013 1:52:13 AM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: richholling

This is looking really good, and you have to invade Norway, no option in my humble opinion.


Rich would you invade Norway?

Bo

(in reply to richholling)
Post #: 53
RE: Preface for Belgian, Netherlands, and France 1940 - 10/1/2013 3:58:56 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Thanks for all this Bo. There is one thing that has always bothered me, the screen below depicts an attack that is about to occur and yet beside each counter it says "No effect" like the attack has already happened, it drives me nuts. Steve, are you listening, its my only complaint, ever!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

This is the Combat Subphase sequence. It shows the three battles about to be decided and their odds, you can decide these battles in any sequence you so choose. it gives you where the battle is being fought. You first choose which battle is first and then you are directed to pick a combat table either Assault or Blitz. I mostly use assault, why, I find Blitz too bloody too much damage but thats just my opinion.

Liege and Brussels are givens, no hope, Oslo is pretty much decided but a bad roll and Some German units could get disorganized and even possible if I remember right you might lose a unit, I did not check any charts when I wrote this so I could be wrong.

Below you see the defending unit in Red an elite mountain unit and below that unit are the attacking units, you see under each unit the word [No effect] that will change as soon as you pick Assault or Blitz and push the compute button. To your right is the 1-D-10 charts, single die, after the losses are calculated you can click on that button and see the die roll and the outcome. [unit destroyed, unit disorganized, unit shattered or unit retreat] The German VII mech unit has just moved into the hex that has vacated by the destroyed Belgian unit.

Bo










Wadda ya want? "The defenders are trembling in their boots"? "Attackers are honing their bayonets"? "Everyone is wondering when they are going to get leave"?

The red status indicator on the left side of the units indicate that they are participating in an attack. Once the attack is 'resolved' the owning player gets to choose which units are destroyed/shattered/disorganized. At that time some of the units will have different text strings under them. And in many cases, there will still be units whose text will read "No Effect" ... on unit cohesion and ability to engage in combat.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to WIF_Killzone)
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