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RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/11/2013 9:29:12 PM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		RgR that, will wait and see when I get the game.

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

(in reply to cbelva)
Post #: 31
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/12/2013 2:38:18 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		When were you going to get HexDraw?

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 32
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/12/2013 2:56:51 AM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		I have it already

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 33
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/12/2013 3:03:04 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Would a thread of how to create FPC maps be of value at this time?

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 34
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/12/2013 3:20:02 AM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Its up to you and Capn Darwin, if it's just me then maybe off site, if there is interest from other players then maybe.
I don't want to hold you up on finishing your scenarios, because I would like to know how to make maps

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 35
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/12/2013 3:47:20 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		If we are going to have guys start to work on their own scenarios I can put together a tutorial in about 2 hours.

It takes far less time than that to create the map. The biggest issue for me is finding the ground I'm looking use in the fight.

If I'm going to work with one of you I might as well do the documentation at that time. Saves from having to do it later. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, sort of thing.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/12/2013 3:48:53 AM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 36
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/12/2013 3:58:26 AM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Then sure, looking forward to it. Just printed out the user guide for Hexdraw 1.1 and was playing around with it.

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 37
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/19/2013 2:59:08 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I have looked over the Sinai area of the 1973 Yom Kippur War in Google Maps and the terrain has been completely changed both physical and man made features. Many of the IDF roads are now buried in sand dunes and the Chinese Farm area and the Suez Canal (After the widening) look nothing like the area during the war. Google Maps would be a decent first guess but historical maps would be key for that theater. Much the same applied to the man made terrain of the Golan Heights, but less change to the physical geography. I do have an IDF battle Map of the Sinai (don't ask how I got it) that I will have to see if I can dig out. Its not a great copy but functional, I used it when designing "Yom Kipper" for The Gamers. After this much time and these many changes to the theater of war can't see where anyone would care anymore, so would be happy to share it with the designers should they wish.

< Message edited by Beachinnole -- 5/19/2013 3:02:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
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I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to cbelva)
Post #: 38
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 12:12:00 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		I guess I'm confused....

The map is just a png file? Thats cool
Players have to draw hexes on? Not cool.

You guys ever play Panzer Korps? Check out the editor.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 39
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 1:23:45 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		MikeAP, Maps are build using a set of custom artwork in a third party software called Hexdraw. A nice shareware program for making hex maps. Once the map is made you export it to a graphics file. That image is what the game displays and is used for adding map values in the in-game map values editor. A number of comments have been made about colors and such and we are saying you can go in and hand edit the map in a paint program if you want.

Never played PK. Only so many hours in a day.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 40
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 1:43:41 AM   
cbelva


Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
Status: offline 		The different between the maps in FPRS and Panzer Korps is that in Panzer Korps you are limited to one kind of map. FPRS was designed with the modeler in mind. You can make your maps to be anything. You can draw a map on a piece and paper, scan it and then use it as your map in FPRS. You can take a map, scan it an use it. You can take screen shots from Google Earth. In fact the first scenario I played on FPRS was from Google Earth. You can design your own tiles and totally change the look of the game. Granted, Panzer Korps map editor is extremely easy to use, however, you are limited to what the game gives you.

I am not saying that FPRS' editor is better than Panzer Korps'. There is a lot to be said for "easy" in a scenario editor. But Rob wanted to give the scenario designers a lot of options, and I think people are going to agree. Especially when they realize teh flexibity and adaptablity in the editor.

< Message edited by cbelva -- 5/20/2013 1:45:49 AM >

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 41
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 2:17:47 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

MikeAP, Maps are build using a set of custom artwork in a third party software called Hexdraw. A nice shareware program for making hex maps. Once the map is made you export it to a graphics file. That image is what the game displays and is used for adding map values in the in-game map values editor. A number of comments have been made about colors and such and we are saying you can go in and hand edit the map in a paint program if you want.


Ok, so we just need to provide the graphic (map) with hexes drawn and you have an in-game editor that will let us paint-by-numbers per terrain values. Hate 3rd party software, but ok.

What if we don't want to use hexes? If I just want to make a map in photoshop, per say?

quote:

Never played PK. Only so many hours in a day.


The bane of a game developer. You should try to play games you're competing against.


< Message edited by MikeAP -- 5/20/2013 2:18:32 AM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 42
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 2:23:49 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cbelva
In Panzer Korps you are limited to one kind of map. FPRS was designed with the modeler in mind. You can make your maps to be anything. You can draw a map on a piece and paper, scan it and then use it as your map in FPRS.


Thanks. I can see it has benefits. I have a bunch of scenarios from the Army Captain's course that I'd like to input. I have the digital maps and all. Should be interesting to see how it plays out in FPRS

ALSO - I can still use the PZK editor to create maps and just import them to FPRS

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 5/20/2013 2:40:40 AM >

(in reply to cbelva)
Post #: 43
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 2:52:23 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		And I just purchased HexDraw anyway...it looked very nice and I can use this for some of the other games I play as well as some stuff at work. Nice program.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 44
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 3:51:08 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		The basic trick is to get the scale right. FPC is using hexes at 500m. The maps are scaled at 64 pixels tall per hex/500m. As long as your map/drawing/google earth images is at that scale you can bring it in and then add in the various values for each "hex" of terrain space.



_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 45
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 12:50:33 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Delete

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 5/27/2013 3:30:35 AM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 46
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/20/2013 1:46:53 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Location for user generated are in discussions right now and we will let folks know once there is a solution. Right now, until we release the game and the modkit, I would use this forum for Q&A and information.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 47
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/21/2013 11:23:08 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Delete

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 5/27/2013 3:31:34 AM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 48
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/21/2013 11:25:52 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Delete

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 5/27/2013 3:32:07 AM >

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 49
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/21/2013 11:48:49 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

FPC is using hexes at 500m. The maps are scaled at 64 pixels tall per hex/500m.


Hmm. Thats a little weird. 64 px = 169mm. HexDraw only goes up to 100mm/hex.

How do we properly scale it then?

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 50
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/22/2013 12:22:56 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Mike,

In HexDraw we have a template map that is 48 hex columns by 31 hex rows with a hex size of 18.00mm. We export the image then scale to fit the pixel size. We will have a fairly well details modders guide for the game when it ships that covers these processes and details. If you search Mad Russians posts here and in the old FPG forum where it was talking Red Storm he goes through a summary of the map making process he uses.



_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 51
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/22/2013 2:42:27 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Ok. I'll just make a Hex overlay in Photoshop that measures at 64pixels. HexDraw just can't get me what I want.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 52
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/22/2013 12:27:55 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		HexDraw just gets us a well formatted hex map. The scaling magic is all post hexdraw in the paint program.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 53
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/22/2013 2:34:10 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Delete

< Message edited by MikeAP -- 5/27/2013 3:33:07 AM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 54
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 5/26/2013 4:21:22 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

The bane of a game developer. You should try to play games you're competing against.



Great idea. After I get some playing time in with this game I'll think about playing some of our competitors games. After I play some of the games I'd like to play for fun.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 55
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 6/1/2013 7:46:45 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The way the FPC:RS maps work is the more blocking terrain in the hex the more obstruction you get to both movement, observation of units in the hex and LOS through the hex.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 56
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 7/9/2013 10:51:14 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This could very well be the deadliest piece of ground in FPC:RS.

When you get there you'll know it.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 57
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 10/1/2013 11:09:50 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Final count of maps included in the game will be 26. A vast improvement over the 4 of FPG.

A very large difference in maps of FPC vs those in FPG is playable area. The battles in FPG were much smaller than those depicted in FPC:RS. So, the maps have a much larger percentage of their playing area used in each battle.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 58
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 10/4/2013 10:39:53 AM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline 		I'm not trying to be rude, but just curious. Why did you change the map graphics? I think it was beautiful in the first game 'Flashpoint Germany'.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 59
RE: Maps, maps and more maps. - 10/4/2013 12:14:50 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		A couple reasons.
1. The FPG maps were pretty, but hard to get relevant information off of like LOS and cover conditions.
2. We would be packaging 3 or 4 maps not 25+. The cost to have maps like that made would have negated the number we could have produced.
3. We had moved away from those style of maps in the engine 6+ years ago in favor of a system where the map was constructed of elements with values known that could be read and combined to get the hex values.
4. We wanted a system that folks could edit and do easier.

I'm sure the other guys will jump in on this too. At the end of the day the new map system offered too many positive factors. There is nothing stopping players from making more graphically detailed maps (pretty) and using them in game. The final "map" is nothing more then a large png file.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 60
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