Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

If you want to close the hexsides you'll have to cross the river (and shock on each hexside). There is no other way to isolate a hex completely if it is already occupied by enemy forces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You can be the only side with a unit in the adjacent hex instead of actually crossing the hex side. Consider that each hex has its own hex sides. So, that means each hex boundary has two hex sides, one that is part of each adjacent hex.

Let's use Pegu (the hex east of Rangoon) as an example of a siege of Rangoon. Let's say that defender owns the east hex side of the Rangoon hex. Pegu is unoccupied. Now, attacker moves a unit into Pegu. That means attacker (the only player in the hex) owns all six hex sides in Pegu. As far as the boundary between Rangoon and Pegu, the defender owns the Rangoon side and the attacker owns the Pegu side. Supply will not pass because you must own both halves of the boundary between the hexes.

Next the defender moves a relief force (unit) up from Moulmein. The unit enters Pegu, which gives the defender ownership of the SE side of the Pegu hex. Supply still will not pass because that boundary between Rangoon and Pegu because the boundary between them is still not fully owned by the defender. To get supply moving, the defender would have to A) evict the attacker from Pegu, or B) move a unit from Rangoon to Pegu via that boundary, thereby taking ownership of that hex side within Pegu.

So if the attacker gets there first, they can sit as a blocking force and require the defender to somehow change things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

If you control the hexes outside of it though, they won't be able to retreat. You just have to hold the hexes. Which can be hard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

If you control the hexes outside of it though, they won't be able to retreat. You just have to hold the hexes. Which can be hard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Don't bother to guard the ones where you would be happy tot have them retreat. How about the swamps to the left, for example?

quote:

Ground combat at 55,59 (near Tavoy)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 168715 troops, 2013 guns, 2438 vehicles, Assault Value = 5414

Defending force 79249 troops, 1291 guns, 968 vehicles, Assault Value = 2381

Japanese adjusted assault: 430

Allied adjusted defense: 5857

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 13

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
28212 casualties reported
Squads: 366 destroyed, 1920 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 141 disabled
Engineers: 49 destroyed, 203 disabled
Guns lost 155 (21 destroyed, 134 disabled)
Vehicles lost 255 (81 destroyed, 174 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
664 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 93 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 96 (7 destroyed, 89 disabled)
Vehicles lost 68 (4 destroyed, 64 disabled)

Assaulting units:
16th Division
24th Ind.Mixed Brigade
79th Brigade
22nd Tank Regiment
5th Division
33rd Division
18th Division
2nd Guards Division
55th Division
39th Division
2nd Division
38th Division
2nd Tank Division
21st Division
3rd Tank Division
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
75th Infantry Brigade
1st Ind.Mixed Regiment
19th Army
34th Field AA Battalion
10th RF Gun Battalion
1st RF Gun Battalion
25th Army
14th Mortar Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
32nd Field AA Battalion
38th Field AA Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
56th Field AA Battalion
2nd Army
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
70th Field AA Battalion
11th RF Gun Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
11th Mortar Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Army
28th Army
51st Field AA Battalion
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
33rd Road Const Co
68th Field AA Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Area Army
49th AA Machinecannon Company
8th RF Gun Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
40th Field AA Battalion
69th Field AA Battalion
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Burma Area Army
14th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
43rd Const Co
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
52nd Field AA Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Medium Mortar Battalion
1st Air Defense AA Regiment
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
27th Fld AA Gun Co
1st Art.Mortar Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st AA Regiment
39th Field AA Battalion
115th AA Regiment
20th AA Regiment
50th Field AA Battalion
7th JAAF Base Force

Defending units:
77th Chindit Brigade
14th Indian Division
9th Indian Division
26th Indian Division
111th Chindit Brigade
11th (East African) Division
2nd New Chinese Corps
33rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
8th Medium Regiment
X' Force
8th Belfast Heavy Regiment
86th Medium Regiment
NCAC
6th Medium Regiment
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
6th Mixed A/T Mtr Regiment
23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
87th Medium Regiment
28th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
Provisional GMC Grp

quote:

Ground combat at Bangkok (56,62)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 70917 troops, 1319 guns, 943 vehicles, Assault Value = 3037

Defending force 80874 troops, 851 guns, 523 vehicles, Assault Value = 1933

Japanese ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
303 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 19 (4 destroyed, 15 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Assaulting units:
XXXIII Corps Engineer Battalion
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
209th Combat Engineer Battalion
41st Infantry Division
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
18th British Division
IV Corps Engineer Battalion
2nd British Division
36th British Division
6th Australian Division
9th Australian Division
Southeast Asia
2/9th Field Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
XV Indian Corps
2/13th Field Regiment

Defending units:
34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
6th Ind.Infantry Brigade
35th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Division
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
48th Division
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Division
4th South Seas Det.
33rd Road Const Co /1
87th JAAF AF Bn
65th Construction Battalion
21st Field AF Construction Battalion
39th Army
33rd Army
17th JAAF AF Bn
61st Construction Battalion
14th Base Force
Southern Army
72nd JAAF AF Bn
21st Air Defense AA Battalion
13th JAAF Base Force
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
9th Air Division
54th Const Co
23rd JNAF AF Unit
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion
30th JAAF Base Force
12th Field AF Construction Battalion
82nd JAAF AF Bn
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
67th JNAF AF Unit
23rd AA Rgt /2

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 17, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Aparri , at 82,73

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 48 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Aparri , at 82,73

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 27
B-25D1 Mitchell x 67
B-25G Mitchell x 6
B-25H Mitchell x 18
B-25J1 Mitchell x 15
B-25J11 Mitchell x 15
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 4 destroyed on ground
B6N2a Jill: 7 destroyed on ground
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 damaged

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Using EAB to flip a hex side against a massive army - I would just feel dirty after doing that!

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You can get into a spiraling debate about many things, but you don't have to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Hummm, I am surely missing something here, but why are the Bankokograd hexsides so important to you.  Given the large group of nasties (Jungleograd) still in your rear, straving though they are, I'd liquidate these crumps before worrying so much about Bankokograd.  You have Bangkokograd interdicted.  Any movement, by land or sea, is subject to sub and air interdiction inflicting much grief.  I'd even consider leaving a hex open (of your choosing) to allow him to leave.  Otherwise, I'd kill off the nuisance to the rear and move an infantry force with mucho AA and artillery into Bangkokograd from the adjacent city and commence making life in Bangkok most unpleasant.  I would suggest not throwing awway units, but rather a seige like approach.  if he takes the "escape" gambit, all the better.

Man, joc, I congratulate you on cutting off 12 divisions and many support units in the middle of nowheresville.  I was hired by Zhukov and Stalin to sue you for stealing pages from their recent book, How I Dicked Hitler at Stalingrad, but I decide to take a pass on that job.  Nicely done.

quote:

What do people think? I using EABs for this knowing they will be crushed in the crossing not Kosher? I set this up in a sandbox and using proper combat regiments they were all destroyed. Not damaged or disabled. Simply destroyed. "poof" gone. I tested it with IDs and while they survived the actually crossing they were absolutely gutted. Probably out for the rest of the war.

I hadn´t considered this could be something despicable though so I would love to hear what people think. Can´t really ask Erik without giving away too much. Consider this too: What if it wasn´t a river crossing and I used an EAB to close the hexside?

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Hummm, I am surely missing something here, but why are the Bankokograd hexsides so important to you.  Given the large group of nasties (Jungleograd) still in your rear, straving though they are, I'd liquidate these crumps before worrying so much about Bankokograd.  You have Bangkokograd interdicted.  Any movement, by land or sea, is subject to sub and air interdiction inflicting much grief.  I'd even consider leaving a hex open (of your choosing) to allow him to leave.  Otherwise, I'd kill off the nuisance to the rear and move an infantry force with mucho AA and artillery into Bangkokograd from the adjacent city and commence making life in Bangkok most unpleasant.  I would suggest not throwing awway units, but rather a seige like approach.  if he takes the "escape" gambit, all the better.

Man, joc, I congratulate you on cutting off 12 divisions and many support units in the middle of nowheresville.  I was hired by Zhukov and Stalin to sue you for stealing pages from their recent book, How I Dicked Hitler at Stalingrad, but I decide to take a pass on that job.  Nicely done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote

Objectively - I'm with Bullwinkle. It's a game.
Subjectively - I'm with witpqs. This isn't something I'd do unless I felt I had no choice. That said, it's a game. Do what you have to.
Lastly - I know it's been a month, but does anyone else remember how obvert (over) reacted the last time a small unit crossed a river into a big stack? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3403798

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Strategic bombing
------------------------
The Nagoya strike turns out to be a complete debacle. Only 40 of the 110 B29s arrive over target. They only cause 2700 fires. 8 are lost to NFs. A 20% loss ratio. This can not be maintained for the miniscule gains..

Whoever thinks NFs are underpowered needs to check again...

The Takao strike goes alot better creating 140k fires. But in the morning only 2 LI of the 40 is destroyed.

On the positive side I finally found the first NF factory! This will be a prime target. No idea how many there is though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I think it is good. Not having ability to destroy entire city industry in one raid must be considered as realistic and well balanced. It will require lot longer campaign to burn everything to bare ground. Also NF working as they should. They are not so strong as day CAP and You can`t bomb for free. I should give for both of You and Erik feeling that this is fair to both sides. At lest for me it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

19th December -44
______________________________________________________________________________
------------------------
Strategic bombing
------------------------
The Nagoya strike turns out to be a complete debacle. Only 40 of the 110 B29s arrive over target. They only cause 2700 fires. 8 are lost to NFs. A 20% loss ratio. This can not be maintained for the miniscule gains..

Whoever thinks NFs are underpowered needs to check again...

The Takao strike goes alot better creating 140k fires. But in the morning only 2 LI of the 40 is destroyed.

On the positive side I finally found the first NF factory! This will be a prime target. No idea how many there is though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Be careful, J. I know this looks rough, but what if 110 had made the target? I think losses would have still been in the 8 range and you would shrug. NFs are what they are. He can't have them at every base. Mix it up, keep plowing ahead.

Also, using just B-29s from long range you're always goingt o be fragile. Keep focusing on getting closer. Even a medium-sized base. Then you can use P-51s for what they were designed for. And get the B-17s into the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yes I agree. Of course you shouldn´t be able to burn down an entire city on one night. My comment wasn´t meant as criticism towards the game.

But regarding the Nagoya strike I destroyed 11 LI and 7 Engine factories for 8 B29s. Not a exchange I´m willing to do. The Takao strike I didn´t lose any planes but despite 140k fires only 2 LI was burned down.

I can only strike with the B29s every 7-12 days so I have to make them count. Last night was a waste. I need to look at what went wrong.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Nagoya , at 111,60

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 61 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 14
J1N1-Sa Irving x 23

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed
J1N1-Sa Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Manpower hits 4
Fires 2700

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-804 Hikotai with J1N1-Sa Irving (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead
S-812 Hikotai with J1N1-Sa Irving (3 airborne, 9 on standby, 2 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
S-851 Hikotai with J1N1-S Irving (4 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Now, back to Jungleograd.  Why wouldn't you kill these yo-yos off?  Yeah, he can build some (a small some) of them back, but you're talking 12 + divisions and great piles of artillery in that cauldron.  The game is kind to the Japanese re political points and rebuilds, but not that kind. 

quote:

If it hadn´t been a river crossing and I closed the hexsides using HQ units and whatever. No one would object?