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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 3:39:24 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Interesting finds JocMeister. How did your B29's do on defence against CAP at night?

Obviously there's a load of factors involved (aircraft numbers and relative experience of both sets of pilots to name 2) but my latest night's raid on Tokyo was very interesting. I shot down 19 x enemy CAP for no B29 loss! This was when I raised my altitude to 20K (his CAP was lower). Only 1 night's bombing but also noticeably fewer hits on manpower and fires when bombing at 20K as opposed to 10K. Hope you don't mind me posting a segment from the CR!

Night Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
�� J1N1-S Irving x 8
�� Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 17
�� Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 15
�� Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 13

Allied aircraft
�� B-29-1 Superfort x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
�� J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed
�� Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed
�� Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 destroyed
�� Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
�� B-29-1 Superfort: 5 damaged

Manpower hits 4
Fires 1668

Isn't this also a function of many of the fighters not being NFs?

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 4:57:51 PM

witpqs

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Congratulations!

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Post #: 2162

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 5:55:37 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

Gratulerar!

... du f�r nog dock se till att g�ra slut p� kriget innan #2 anl�nder, annars misst�nker jag att din tid f�r AE kommer att k�kas upp

Tackar!

Haha, Ja ytterligare en liten l�r ju gnaga en del p� den redan begr�nsade fritiden!

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Post #: 2163

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 6:01:37 PM

princep01

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
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What? Congratulations? For what? Did Japan surrender?

Oh, upon reading the previous page, I see the reason for the celebration, back-slapping and congratulations. Well, congratulations are in order and I will say that you will likely find the second rodeo easier than the first. That was my experience. Well, at least, until they reached the age of unreason (teens). Then, all bets are off. But, seriously, I do wish you the best.

Now, about those little yellow bastards.........

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Post #: 2164

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 6:03:15 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Ouff, A black day in the game.

The worst 4E loss I have ever suffered in the game as the 4Es at Iloilo fly to Manila and get absolutly skewered by the CAP.

I had them set to attack a ground unit at Cebu. I guess that unit got destroyed or died from starvation which reset the settings on the bombers. So instead they took off unescorted to Manila.

75 4Es are lost together with every single pilot.

Stupid game. And where are all those overpowered 4Es I keep hearing about? I want them.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/15/2013 6:05:41 PM >

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Post #: 2165

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 6:09:37 PM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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And of course thank you all for the congratulations!

I really hope you are right princep because I see my spare time account dropping to nothing with the arrival of the next one!

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Post #: 2166

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 6:43:58 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Interesting finds JocMeister. How did your B29's do on defence against CAP at night?

Obviously there's a load of factors involved (aircraft numbers and relative experience of both sets of pilots to name 2) but my latest night's raid on Tokyo was very interesting. I shot down 19 x enemy CAP for no B29 loss! This was when I raised my altitude to 20K (his CAP was lower). Only 1 night's bombing but also noticeably fewer hits on manpower and fires when bombing at 20K as opposed to 10K. Hope you don't mind me posting a segment from the CR!

Night Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
�� J1N1-S Irving x 8
�� Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 17
�� Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 15
�� Ki-61-II KAI Tony x 13

Allied aircraft
�� B-29-1 Superfort x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
�� J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed
�� Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed
�� Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 destroyed
�� Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
�� B-29-1 Superfort: 5 damaged

Manpower hits 4
Fires 1668

Isn't this also a function of many of the fighters not being NFs?

Could be but not sure if the game provides negative modifiers to day fighters at night?

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Post #: 2167

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 7:00:36 PM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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Im pretty sure it does!

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Post #: 2168

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 7:45:45 PM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Thailand - The plan
______________________________________________________________________________

Here is a rough draft on the decided course of action in Thailand. Things might change as we move forward. I will leave most of the southern bases but I really want a few bases on the coast. Plan is to finally get some long range attack bombers to start striking at Eriks shipping. This will also form a big kettle on the eastern coast if Erik doesn�t get out in time.

We go East!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/15/2013 7:47:28 PM >

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Post #: 2169

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 8:37:09 PM

catwhoorg

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From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

Smacking down LI through manpower fires is going to help supply considerations as well.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken Moose, they all add VPs.

Only Home Islands do.

Yeah but theres a whole lot of LI on the home Islands that burns well.

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Post #: 2170

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 9:16:25 PM

Lokasenna

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Ah, so the AA unit gets bounced back with losses due to crossing a river.

I closed the Sydney hex (IIRC, 95% confidence I am remembering...) because it was a simple land closure. No shock trigger.

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Post #: 2171

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 9:20:43 PM

JocMeister

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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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Disaster over Manila
______________________________________________________________________________

Warning: May contain lots of whine. Reader discretion is advised.

I want to get this out of my system before I head to bed. And then forget about it. I had a bunch of 4Es hitting some stubborn troops at Cebu. All set for ground attack - Cebu - Max range 2.

But something happened with that unit and it disappeared. This led the wonderful game to switch all squadrons except one (who still has ground attack Cebu max RNG 2 set) to ground attack - no target - max range. And then the AI decides its a fantastic idea to attack the troops at Manila despite the 500 plane CAP. Result where predictable. I can�t remember the last time I got this furious at the game.

70 4Es lost. All pilots lost. Wonderful.

The game managed to kill more 4Es in a day then Erik has ever succeeded in doing. This is basically 3 months losses wrapped up in a day. Disaster.

This has dramatic effects for me ofcourse. I had to pull 4 squadrons off combat. I have no planes to fill them out with. Even worse I don�t have pilots to fill out the remaining squadrons. So I decided to pull some B29-1 squadrons off line too. I can�t fill them out with planes anyway so I might as well use them for training. The pilots went to the B24s that has planes.

USA bomber pilot pools is now completely empty. I have loads of LowNav pilots though... Fantastic that the B29 arrives with them.

. I have every restricted USA bomber and fighter squadron doing ground training for probably 6 months back and I�m barely keeping up with losses. 3 months ago I took 4 unrestricted fighter squadrons off line to help out. Last week I had to pull another 3. I�m going to pull another 3 next turn. I might as well because I need bomber pilots and I don�t have the fighters to fill them out anyway.

Welcome to the allies in late 44. Plenty of nothing for the USAAF...

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< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/15/2013 9:24:21 PM >

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 9:22:40 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ah, so the AA unit gets bounced back with losses due to crossing a river.

I closed the Sydney hex (IIRC, 95% confidence I am remembering...) because it was a simple land closure. No shock trigger.

Ah, no it didn�t I was wrong in my setup!

It crossed perfectly fine and closed the hexside without much losses. Something is definitely up with that.

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Post #: 2173

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 10:38:49 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

But something happened with that unit and it disappeared. This led the wonderful game to switch all squadrons except one (who still has ground attack Cebu max RNG 2 set) to ground attack - no target - max range. And then the AI decides its a fantastic idea to attack the troops at Manila despite the 500 plane CAP. Result where predictable. I can�t remember the last time I got this furious at the game.

I am willing to wager that you left maximum range set while selecting the target at 2 .. if so .. then the lovely algorithm selects the next best target as per the parameters set .. probably maximum range?

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 10:53:00 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

But something happened with that unit and it disappeared. This led the wonderful game to switch all squadrons except one (who still has ground attack Cebu max RNG 2 set) to ground attack - no target - max range. And then the AI decides its a fantastic idea to attack the troops at Manila despite the 500 plane CAP. Result where predictable. I can�t remember the last time I got this furious at the game.

I am willing to wager that you left maximum range set while selecting the target at 2 .. if so .. then the lovely algorithm selects the next best target as per the parameters set .. probably maximum range?

If you look at the screenshot, Cebu is an American base already. If the mission was to smear routed troops hanging around in the hex it's always a risk they're going to self-terminate at the end of the previous day's land phase.

Usually the combat events.txt has a line about Japanese forces being surrounded. When they're surrounded they die all at once. I think the Allies get a different text line.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/15/2013 10:56:40 PM >

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The Moose

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/15/2013 11:05:58 PM

Crackaces

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Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

But something happened with that unit and it disappeared. This led the wonderful game to switch all squadrons except one (who still has ground attack Cebu max RNG 2 set) to ground attack - no target - max range. And then the AI decides its a fantastic idea to attack the troops at Manila despite the 500 plane CAP. Result where predictable. I can�t remember the last time I got this furious at the game.

I am willing to wager that you left maximum range set while selecting the target at 2 .. if so .. then the lovely algorithm selects the next best target as per the parameters set .. probably maximum range?

If you look at the screenshot, Cebu is an American base already. If the mission was to smear routed troops hanging around in the hex it's always a risk they're going to self-terminate at the end of the previous day's land phase.

Usually the combat events.txt has a line about Japanese forces being surrounded. When they're surrounded they die all at once. I think the Allies get a different text line.

My point was to make sure the maximum range for a raid is not set to an unwanted distance. Thus the target range and the maximum range have to be separately set. I have in fact set the maximum range to something less than the target and when that find a target algorithm becomes relevant .. it does not find targets I do not want to go ..

what I am saying happened here is the target dissolved and then the default commander's "digression" (sic) took over ..

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 12:24:53 AM

DOCUP

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Congrats on the new baby. Your new baby will be a few weeks before mine. Not for sure you can keep that car now. Might be looking at a daddy van or Minivan.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 2:09:00 AM

witpqs

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I've learned the hard way that groups on ground attack need to be checked each turn to see, for example, if the targeted unit has moved away into CAP range!

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Post #: 2178

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 5:37:03 AM

JocMeister

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Maximum range was set to "2". One of the groups retained the original settings so I�m certain of it. All other where revered to maximum extended range.

As witpqs says you need to babysit this stuff time and time again which is kind of annoying.

I simply missed the unit had vanished. Sucks as I will never be able to make up the losses.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 6:11:04 AM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Congrats on the new baby. Your new baby will be a few weeks before mine. Not for sure you can keep that car now. Might be looking at a daddy van or Minivan.

Thanks!

Yeah we are due on the 5th of April I think. Sadly that car will probably have to go yes.

Looking at a Toyota Verso. Its a minivan with 7 seats. But we can just fold down the 2 in the back and get great storage. Actually a surprisingly cheap car (about 30.000 US dollars). We might even afford to buy a brand new one which would be nice. Never owned a new car.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 6:33:26 AM

DOCUP

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May 14th is our due date. Verso is a nice looking car. 30k is cheap?

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 6:44:18 AM

aztez

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From: Finland
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I don't have those combat reports anymore on PC which have the exact hit ratios when flying againts specific targets.

Those were mostly on double digits though and my AAR's might have more specific details.

Oh.. and congrats on new "arrival" to the family.

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Post #: 2182

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 6:52:52 AM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

May 14th is our due date. Verso is a nice looking car. 30k is cheap?

Haha, love the image!

Well, 30k isn�t exactly "cheap" but an Audi A6 is twice that.

I think cars might be more expensive in Europe than in the states.

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Post #: 2183

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 6:54:50 AM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

I don't have those combat reports anymore on PC which have the exact hit ratios when flying againts specific targets.

Those were mostly on double digits though and my AAR's might have more specific details.

Oh.. and congrats on new "arrival" to the family.

I�ll check through it and see what I can find! Btw, where did you base your B17/B24s? I looked through the last pages but didn�t find anything on that?

My tests were done at night so hit ratios will probably be a lot better when bombing during the day!

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Post #: 2184

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 6:59:19 AM

DOCUP

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A new audi a6 starts at around 43K. The verso isn't sold in the US. I know Hilux is sold everywhere but the US. I would love to have one of them.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 7:00:00 AM

DOCUP

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Oh yeah. I'm stalling on sending the turn to Koniu. I can't think right now of course Top Gear BBC isn't helping right now.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 7:04:54 AM

aztez

Posts: 4031
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From: Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

I don't have those combat reports anymore on PC which have the exact hit ratios when flying againts specific targets.

Those were mostly on double digits though and my AAR's might have more specific details.

Oh.. and congrats on new "arrival" to the family.

I�ll check through it and see what I can find! Btw, where did you base your B17/B24s? I looked through the last pages but didn�t find anything on that?

My tests were done at night so hit ratios will probably be a lot better when bombing during the day!

Yeah. The best results were during day but flying low on night scored decent hits. Don't expect though that you will destroy +100 points of factories in a day.

I had P51 flying sweeps from Iwo Jima and surrounding bases. Those helped againts katsuragi.

Againts Dave I failed to penetrate the inner circles thus the bombers went in alone.

As for B17's and B24's. I did not get suitable bases for them so those were flying secondary ground assaults around Philippines and Burna. That is why you don't see them going againts home island.

It will be very useful if you get close enough so make that your aim for now.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 7:14:21 AM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Oh yeah. I'm stalling on sending the turn to Koniu. I can't think right now of course Top Gear BBC isn't helping right now.

They have both the British and US versions showing in Sweden. I have to say the US one is really...bad. But I love the British Top Gear. I think it might be my favorite show after Family Guy!

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Post #: 2188

RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 7:16:53 AM

DOCUP

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I love the British version. Am is ok but their not as good as the Brits. I like Family Guy. I would like to see more trucks driven on the show though.

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RE: Battle for Bangkok begins! - 10/16/2013 7:17:44 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

I don't have those combat reports anymore on PC which have the exact hit ratios when flying againts specific targets.

Those were mostly on double digits though and my AAR's might have more specific details.

Oh.. and congrats on new "arrival" to the family.

I�ll check through it and see what I can find! Btw, where did you base your B17/B24s? I looked through the last pages but didn�t find anything on that?

My tests were done at night so hit ratios will probably be a lot better when bombing during the day!

Yeah. The best results were during day but flying low on night scored decent hits. Don't expect though that you will destroy +100 points of factories in a day.

I had P51 flying sweeps from Iwo Jima and surrounding bases. Those helped againts katsuragi.

Againts Dave I failed to penetrate the inner circles thus the bombers went in alone.

As for B17's and B24's. I did not get suitable bases for them so those were flying secondary ground assaults around Philippines and Burna. That is why you don't see them going againts home island.

It will be very useful if you get close enough so make that your aim for now.