Agents are way overpowered!

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Agents are way overpowered! - 10/15/2013 8:24:10 PM

Tanaka

Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
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I have no problem stealing a tech once a year in this game easily. And then the super ninja unstoppable assassins! There needs to be some nerfing and balancing here!

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/15/2013 10:09:42 PM

Buio

Posts: 247
Joined: 11/21/2012
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It's not that easy. You are stealing research information. You wont steal a whole tech later in game.

1) Late game tech I didn't have
2) Same tech after getting research bonus from disassembling
3) Same tech after an very good agent stealing research information from an enemy

The disassembling bonus was pretty hefty, and the agent steal not that large.

< Message edited by Buio -- 10/15/2013 10:11:41 PM >

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/15/2013 11:09:21 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
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The first 2-3 tier techs are relatively easy to steal, though by tech 2 or 3, you will start needing multiple missions to steal it. AT 999k research like I play, top level techs will take many missions to completely steal, and you will get more and more likely to fail or have an agent captured.

In fact, by tier 3 you should start noticing that your agents will need espionage skills of 30+ to have a reasonable chance at success. Reasonable being defined as 86 plus.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/16/2013 3:57:51 AM

Tanaka

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Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The first 2-3 tier techs are relatively easy to steal, though by tech 2 or 3, you will start needing multiple missions to steal it. AT 999k research like I play, top level techs will take many missions to completely steal, and you will get more and more likely to fail or have an agent captured.

In fact, by tier 3 you should start noticing that your agents will need espionage skills of 30+ to have a reasonable chance at success. Reasonable being defined as 86 plus.

Yeah Im stealing early tier techs like candy with this guy research is not even necessary.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/16/2013 5:03:12 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
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One game I got a spy up to 120 espionage...that was..interesting.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/16/2013 6:32:50 AM

Canute0

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
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Ok, but agensts with that high skills need along training or much luck to aquiere the right traits.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/16/2013 6:54:25 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

Ok, but agensts with that high skills need along training or much luck to aquiere the right traits.

It really helps if you get another character with the 'Inspiring Presence' trait, because even if the agent does nothing, their skills go up. You can improve that with missions as well, but it takes a lot of them and being very careful to not take risks (IE no mission under 88% probability). And even then you still run a risk of losing the agent.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/18/2013 6:14:48 AM

Bebop Cola

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/9/2012
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Personally, I find the espionage system to be kind of a pain in the ass and a little awkward. I use it, but I don't particularly care for the rate one can go through agents during the training process and the relatively random nature one may get an agent in the first place. Neither do I much care for the inability to discern how well my agents are actually protecting my empire when they're set to counter-intelligence. I have several agents with pretty good counter-intelligence ratings, but I still lose bases to pirates like crazy.

As it is, it's difficult to get an agent who has a specific skill set and keep that agent alive long enough for them to be useful. My preference would be to have the ability to recruit agents with specific mission focus, and perhaps a very modest skill rating that may or may not change with experience, on planets like troops. The character agents, then, would be more like department heads that apply their skill bonuses to the missions your spy recruits go on, but absent a department head you can still obtain agents to perform to a minimum standard(primarily I'm thinking of counter-espionage here).

The department heads would be assigned to oversee the teams that run specific mission types, and their skill ratings would not benefit teams on any other mission type. Counter-intelligence department heads would display an estimated percentage change of successful defense similar to the chance of success for other missions, and the agents recruited for counter-intelligence could be assigned to defend against specific empires for a bonus to stop that empire's agents(and a penalty to stopping the agents of other empires).

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/18/2013 1:26:20 PM

Jeeves

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From: Arlington TN U.S.A
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I hate the Ketarovs. I never attack them until I have at least four spies on counter intelligence, and make the war a way overpowered blitzkrieg lasting less than a month. Did I say I HATE the Ketarovs LOL? They once busted my empire apart way back in the original distant worlds game, and I've hated them ever since...

Lonnie Courtney Clay

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/25/2013 3:55:06 PM

slukenwarrior

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Joined: 10/25/2013
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with the current loss and recruitment rates agents are far from being overpowered. unless of course you reload when you inevitably lose one but then again everything is op since you kind of cheat. The whole intelligence part seems to be balanced and implemented rather well compared to other space 4x games.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 10/26/2013 8:52:31 PM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slukenwarrior

with the current loss and recruitment rates agents are far from being overpowered. unless of course you reload when you inevitably lose one but then again everything is op since you kind of cheat. The whole intelligence part seems to be balanced and implemented rather well compared to other space 4x games.

Maybe I never lose my agent and always get a tech because I am only using him against pirates and I am in the age of shadows Idk...

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 11/10/2013 4:49:02 AM

aaatoysandmore

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Like diplomacy in a game like this using agents is nothing more than getting something for nothing. You don't want to work for what you get so you exploit the ai in all the ridiculous ways like using agents to get something for free. I never use them myself for I have seen the exploitation of them within the game. It's a wargame in space and that's the way I play it not espionage or spyring or lying to the ai while I steal it blind. Diplomacy in games and spying has never been fun except for a few games that used it properly. I can only think of one game where I enjoyed the aspects of diplomacy and that was War of the Lance a game made a long time ago and just a few years ago a game named Spartan. The diplomacy and spying in this game is so skewed against the ai. To use it is such an exploit and to me it's cheating no if's and's or but's about it. It's more fun to me to wait on the ai to do something in the line of espionage or diplomacy than me to do it. That's what I believe the game play element was put into the game in the first place for the ai to have an advantage and you to figure out what to do or counter it. Not use it against the ai though.

I wish this game had a blind tech tree (like alpha centauri by Sid Meier) because to me that is an exploit also against the ai. I'd like the computer to make random choices for me if I so choose in say the options menu. Now that would be a fun game not ever knowing what tech you're gonna get next.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 11/10/2013 2:37:18 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
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You play the way you like, and let everyone else play their way.

It is not exploiting to use a game mechanic in exactly the manner it is intended to be used. Agents and tech stealing have been in since the start, only refined in later expansions. I think you will find that most players have far more failures than successes with the agent system in game.

This game allows it, and it is certainly not cheating. If you choose not to use it, then that is your call.

What you see in game with the agents is what goes on in real life all the time...its called corporate espionage. Countries and corporations do it to gain a easy, free advantage over their competition.

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RE: Agents are way overpowered! - 11/14/2013 2:20:12 AM

clone61279

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Joined: 10/8/2013
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And when the axe hits the grind-stone, advantage is all that it could take to tip the scales.

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