RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 3:02:28 PM

Mike Solli

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You're right Pax. I read that there were 3-4 on board the Soryu I believe. Not sure if they were used though. I never read anything else about them. If I was home, I could look it up in my reference books. I'll be able to check next spring.

I was curious if the night fighter version was carrier capable.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 3:03:55 PM

PaxMondo

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Not CV capable in the editor.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 3:04:50 PM

Mike Solli

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Too bad. Thanks for checking.

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Post #: 2013

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 3:08:55 PM

PaxMondo

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Yeah, kinda funny because no reason not to keep the arresting gear. But then I bet night flight ops in '42 was pretty wicked ... wonder what Ian would say about it? No radar, no telemetry, no IR ... just following the phosphorescence to the LZ ... no way I would have done it.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 4:11:26 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Just looked at the Judy situation a little further. Apparently, the D4Y1 and Y2 use the Aichi Ha-60 engine. Also, the recon versions and a NF version use that engine. I have already begun building the D4Y1-C recon model, although only a relative few will be built. I guess I'll build some night fighters as well. Does anyone know if I can station Judy night fighters on carriers? Just a thought. Not that it will matter by mid-44.

Also the Sieran FP TB uses these engines, so you'll likely want some late for that. I've built about 100 of those for use on subs and dot bases. Fragile things though.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 6:23:37 PM

Mike Solli

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I just checked. I have 655 engines in the pool. I suspect I'll have a few left over.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 7:12:09 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I just checked. I have 655 engines in the pool. I suspect I'll have a few left over.

Sounds like 500-ish D4Y1/2 as kamis?

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Post #: 2017

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/19/2013 7:20:37 PM

Mike Solli

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That's what I was thinking, Lokasenna.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/20/2013 1:54:37 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I have another piece of info that I didn't realize at the time I asked the question....I have some 800 engines.

Ay, caramba!

Quite a discovery! Now you'll need to build the Y1 and Y1-C in quantity to realize the value of the engine production.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/20/2013 2:12:47 PM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Also the Sieran FP TB uses these engines, so you'll likely want some late for that. I've built about 100 of those for use on subs and dot bases. Fragile things though.

I just watched a really cool documentary about the "super subs" on discover channel I think it was. They had a Sieran pilot interviewed. Appearently the Sieran pilots were hand picked picked for the job. They were supposed to be the best the IJN had.

EDIT: Internet delivers. Here it is on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtP_dEGS6lM

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 10/20/2013 2:14:35 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/20/2013 2:19:01 PM

Mike Solli

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Hi CB. Well, I lied there, as you'll discover as you read on. It's only 665 engines. Those factories are shut off for good pending conversion to another type of engine to be determined later. Also, I have 3 airframe factories (at least, this is off the top of my head) available. I have B5N1, B5N2 and D3A1 all available that will never be turned on again. My carrier DB and TB losses have been far lower than I expected. I have 100 B5N1, 70 B5N2 and 114 D3A1 in the pool. I have one allocated for the Ki-61-Ia, one for the D4Y1 and the last for the B6N1. All of the R&D factories for these models will remain R&D.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/20/2013 3:06:54 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hi CB. Well, I lied there, as you'll discover as you read on. It's only 665 engines. Those factories are shut off for good pending conversion to another type of engine to be determined later. Also, I have 3 airframe factories (at least, this is off the top of my head) available. I have B5N1, B5N2 and D3A1 all available that will never be turned on again. My carrier DB and TB losses have been far lower than I expected. I have 100 B5N1, 70 B5N2 and 114 D3A1 in the pool. I have one allocated for the Ki-61-Ia, one for the D4Y1 and the last for the B6N1. All of the R&D factories for these models will remain R&D.

Would you please quit lying to me?

Sounds like Lokasenna is right-you've cleverly banked some 500 Kamikazes in 1942! Very forward thinking, Mike!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/20/2013 7:14:43 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hi CB. Well, I lied there, as you'll discover as you read on. It's only 665 engines. Those factories are shut off for good pending conversion to another type of engine to be determined later. Also, I have 3 airframe factories (at least, this is off the top of my head) available. I have B5N1, B5N2 and D3A1 all available that will never be turned on again. My carrier DB and TB losses have been far lower than I expected. I have 100 B5N1, 70 B5N2 and 114 D3A1 in the pool. I have one allocated for the Ki-61-Ia, one for the D4Y1 and the last for the B6N1. All of the R&D factories for these models will remain R&D.

Would you please quit lying to me?

Sounds like Lokasenna is right-you've cleverly banked some 500 Kamikazes in 1942! Very forward thinking, Mike!

I'd say probably more than 500. Don't forget all the Vals and Kates still in the pool. I need to allocate some IJN training units to LowN. Don't know which units though because I still don't have many.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/25/2013 4:59:17 PM

Mike Solli

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Well, Ted is still smothered in real life. Still no turn.

I've been planning and plotting. I've been reading the ASW thread and learned some interesting info from Symon (JWE). Apparently, the more ships assigned to an ASW TF, the less efficient each succeeding ship is. Law of diminishing returns. John said that the optimal ASW TF size is 3 ships. I just reset my ASW TFs (on paper) to 3 ships each and now have 29 TFs made up of the Ch-, CHa- and Minekaze classes. I have also tentatively identified 10 bases where I will station a 24 plane FP ASW/NavS unit and 9-12 plane night NavS chutai along with 2x ASW TFs for the sole mission of protecting the SLOC from the SRA to the Home Islands.

Here are the tentative bases:

Kuantan
Soc Trang
Cam Ranh Bay
Quinhon
Samah
Hong Kong
Pescadores
Taihoku
Shanghai
Nagasaki

In addition, Palembang will get 1x ASW TF and Singapore will get 2x ASW TFs and each will get IJAAF ASW/NavS units.

I currently have 9x 24 plane ASW/NavS units and will get a 10th in a week or so.

5 have Jakes
1 has Alf
3 have Dave

The 10th will get Alfs. I'm not thrilled about using the Daves because of their short range, but I'm using everything I can lay my hands on right now. I'll eventually upgrade them all with Jakes or Alfs. Right now, all 9 units are trained either in ASW or NavS and are training in the other so they can perform 40% on each mission with 20% rest. I have identified a Sally sentai for the ASW/NavS mission out of Singapore. I'll swap out the pilots for either ASW or NavS (one or the other, whichever I have enough of) and will train them in the other mission like the FP units. I'll also use a Dinah chutai for the night naval search mission. My goal is to have this all in place by the end of Dec 42.

In China, I'm still training a 30 plane fighter unit for strafe. My goal is to get them all to a minimum of 50 strafe. Only 10 pilots need additional training. Next time I have a chance, I'm going to see if there are 10 fighter pilots in the reserve that have 50+ strafe experience to swap them out. I am also taking some of the IJAAF fighter training units and setting them to train strafe, to have that capability for the future. You never know when it will come in handy. My goal with this unit is to use them in a strafe role with the Oscar IIa (2x 250kg bombs) against the Chinese Air Force. Ted currently isn't flying any CAP over the two hexes where they are stationed. I fly LRCAP over them daily with no combat. If I can swing it, I'll strafe with the fighters and also send 54 Betties to bomb the airfield. I'd love to put a hurting on the Chinese Air Force. That would just slow down the inevitable counter-offensive for a while. It's all a time game.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 10/26/2013 11:58:05 PM

obvert

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I just saw the ASW discussion. Interesting. I still like 4 ships as if there are a lot of subs in the area, and multiple contacts are made, it allows the possibility for an attack even if a few ships have run out of DCs over a few days, keeps them out there longer in the water without having to run back for more.

Also I always check ship captains, range them out for better at least for the flagship captain, who will function as TF commander. Naval skill helps find subs and avoid attacks, and aggressiveness prosecutes attacks more often and for longer I've found.

As for pilots, my training program for fighter pilots gets pilots to 45 exp and 65-70 air skill, and then I train for a week or so at 100 ft sweep, which gets strafing and defensive skills up. Usually it'll take 7-10 days to get them to 60 strafe and add to the defensive skill, getting it to 65-70, which is crucial.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/1/2013 1:48:40 PM

Mike Solli

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Hi guys. RL has been messing with Ted quite a bit. We've completed 2 turns since my last turn posted. Not much happened but I'll post them tonight. Anyway, I've been thinking about supply since the LI discussion in obvert's AAR. The numbers I got in this game scare me. Right now I have ~3 million supply not counting ~200k or so on ships heading to various places. Only 1.1 million is in the Home Islands (not counting Hokkaido and Sakhalin). There is >100k supply sitting in Hakodate right now. I'm going to keep ~40-50k there and use the rest to supply islands.

The 1.1 million is too low a figure. I want at least 2 million in the Home Islands, but I'm not sure that's feasible. I've upgraded no HI, LI or refineries in the Home Islands so my daily production is ~21k (Edit: in the Home Islands mentioned above). I currently am upgrading 9 factories (air and engine) so my actual daily supply production is 12k. I'm assuming 4k a day gets eaten (I think that's high, but I'd rather guess high here), so that leaves 8k a day or 240k a month. I'm now going to export only 40k a month. We'll see how long I can do that. I've been shipping ~100k a month to China, but there is plenty of supply there now. Most of the 40k will go to Burma, but I'll occasionally have to ship some elsewhere. Actually, most of that 40k will be taken by the supply that gets loaded with LCUs when they get shipped out.

I have a 100k supply convoy that will reach Truk in a few days so 4 Fleet is good for a while. Singapore has ~60k and quite a bit has or will shortly arrive at Rangoon. I'm going to try and stop shipping supply for the rest of the month to see what the change will be by the end of the month.

The 9 factories I have upgrading will be allowed to continue to repair but as they complete, I'm going to limit my repairs/expansion to no more than 5 at any time. We'll see how (or if) this works out.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/1/2013 2:08:16 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/1/2013 2:07:47 PM

PaxMondo

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Mike,

At the rate you and I repair factories, I think we are fine. Watch your engine pools, your RnD repair, and your oil center repair; those are the only things ever to surprise me. You won't use anywhere near 4K/day for troops in the HI until '45 when you defending your beaches.

My bottom line for supply in the HI is 1.5M including Hokkaido and Sakhalin. I figure that gives me at least 500K supply to emergencies and stupids. It should give me enough time to figure out what I'm doing wrong and correct it without any significant economic impact. If you shoot for 2M, I think you will have at least a 1M safety net.

The only time I push my safety net is in Jan/Feb 42, and only because you can't predict how many oil centers you might need to repair. You know Miri will need 150K supply minimum. I plan for another 500K ... sometimes you get good rolls and sometimes not so good. Anyway, that is 650K I have to pull out of the HI in late Dec/Early Jan to stage for the DEI which is a big hit. After that I've never really had issues with maintaining 1.5M supply min. My notes show that by Jun42 I'm usually growing supply in the HI at a good rate (5 - 8K/day) adding about 1.5M per year. My Jun43 numbers show me about 3M supply in the HI with good supply everywhere else. That would give me ~5M supply by mid44 (if I ever get a game that far without a restart*

) and that's about as much as I can conveniently disperse in the HI. That would put 100K supply at 50 bases ....except of course you can only stipulate about 75K max and then the rest will pool in Tokyo .... and we know that supply in Tokyo is VERY vulnerable to bombing due to the high manpower and the fires that erupt.

* my pace being slow and Andy keeps updating the AI for more fun.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 11/1/2013 2:16:55 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/1/2013 2:22:40 PM

obvert

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It's tough. I keep trying to assess what i really NEED, but even if 45 that is hard to do. If the Ha-43 factories don't continue repairing i won't have enough when the J7W1 comes online in 2-3 months. If I can't get some more factories repaired for the Ki-94 and Karyu I'll have no chance to get them before game's end. Always some tough choices. Do I need those? not sure. Do I want them? YES!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/1/2013 2:42:01 PM

Mike Solli

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Yeah, this is tough to decide. No deficit spending here!

Pax, thanks for the info. You're boosting my confidence. I never made it past mid-43 and that was in WitP so it's nerve wracking to be constantly worried about imploding the economy. I need to pay closer attention to my spending.

My total Home Island supply is ~1.25 million. I can't see how I can save 1.5 million a year. We'll see....

Concerning engine pools, my Ha-34 & 35 are both stable above 500. I've got some factories off but just enough to equal production (taking into account engines used for R&D). I'm slowly increasing those factories so as I build 30, I turn on an aircraft factory to take into account the extra daily production. I've finally got the A6M5 going (but only 2 a day right now). In a week, I'll get another turned on.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/1/2013 8:24:06 PM

Lokasenna

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Mike, your 1.1M supply in the HI makes me feel a bit better about my levels. In my games against the AI, in which I didn't really pay attention to supply levels until 1943, I always had bigger numbers. If you stop shipping supply from the HI for a month, you should see a steady increase - at least a couple hundred thousand from one month, I would think. After expansion is done, I try to keep my garrisons and regular actions supplied from DEI refineries rather than shipping from Japan, but it's necessary to send convoys every now and again.

In my game with Bullwinkle, I'm going an entirely different route of conquering the SRA...it's working out so far. If (when?) I post an AAR thread on it, I'll go into detail.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/2/2013 12:46:06 PM

Mike Solli

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I just got a turn but it'll be several hours before I can get to it. Still thinking the economy. In this game, I finally thought about R&D for the first time and was overly aggressive (for me) in my expansion. It all worked out but now I'm thinking mid and late war and what to do to get oil and fuel to the Home Islands for as long as possible. Eventually, I'll move as many TKs to Singapore as possible. I'll try to get convoys home as I can. That's the obvious stuff. Tonight I'll check to see if any TKs arrive in the SRA. I suspect not but if there are any, I'm definitely taking them. A one way trip where the TKs are sunk is better than not trying at all. More obvious stuff.

Then, Java dawned on me. I increased the HI in Java to use all the resources on the small bases in the area. I'm planning on defending Java pretty strongly, and I hope Ted decides to just cut it off. As long as he doesn't bomb out Soerabaja and Batavia, I'll continue to produce HI there. I may not be able to export the excess fuel or supply, but that's ok. If he cuts Java off, I'll be able to station subs and small craft there to harass him. Here's to hoping!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/2/2013 1:06:31 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I just got a turn but it'll be several hours before I can get to it. Still thinking the economy. In this game, I finally thought about R&D for the first time and was overly aggressive (for me) in my expansion. It all worked out but now I'm thinking mid and late war and what to do to get oil and fuel to the Home Islands for as long as possible. Eventually, I'll move as many TKs to Singapore as possible. I'll try to get convoys home as I can. That's the obvious stuff. Tonight I'll check to see if any TKs arrive in the SRA. I suspect not but if there are any, I'm definitely taking them. A one way trip where the TKs are sunk is better than not trying at all. More obvious stuff.

Then, Java dawned on me. I increased the HI in Java to use all the resources on the small bases in the area. I'm planning on defending Java pretty strongly, and I hope Ted decides to just cut it off. As long as he doesn't bomb out Soerabaja and Batavia, I'll continue to produce HI there. I may not be able to export the excess fuel or supply, but that's ok. If he cuts Java off, I'll be able to station subs and small craft there to harass him. Here's to hoping!

I did the same on Java, but Soerabaja did see some visits from the B-29s in my game. It's still got some HI producing though, ass does Batavia, which hasn't yet been hit.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/2/2013 4:37:26 PM

HankMartin

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Greetings Everyone!

After years of following the game and the Forums (including WITP), I'm glad to report I've finally purchased the game, which is en route.

The biggest delay had been due to my need for a much better computer. Happily, that also should be en route (I sprung for a custom-made unit).

I have SO enjoyed the various AARs by everyone on the Forum. It's really been great for sustaining my interest in this amazing game.

I owe an enormous amount of debt to everyone involved; the gamers, the mapmakers, the modders and the designers. This really has been the only game that has

continued to pique my curiosity over the years. It's stood the test of time.

I especially owe a big debt of gratitude to you, Mike Solli. So many people have made contributions to my understanding of the game, I hate to single anyone out.

But the fact is, your explanations on the workings of the IJ economy (and what to do with that maelstrom of the merchant fleet) have really shown me this huge

hairball really CAN be managed and understood. And your sportsmanship and magnaminity have been truly remarkable. I felt putting my first post in your AAR to be most

appropriate. I doff my cap to you, sir!

Fair winds and thrilling ops!

Hank

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 8:13:59 AM

Mike Solli

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Wow, I'm flattered Hank. Thanks, I really appreciate it but don't deserve it. I think I do this AAR more to discuss stuff with all the other Japanese JFBs scattered around. I get most of my ideas listening to others. Since I'm currently deployed, I have a lot of time to ponder crazy ideas to further the Japanese cause, or maybe just survive into 1945.

Speaking of that, I've been pondering future engine needs. As I've said before, I determine what models of aircraft I want and then determine my engine needs. Next game I'll take it to the next level and throw engine types into the mix as well to see if I can make things more efficient by using fewer different engine types without having to eliminate some of the nice aircraft I just can't live without. My goal was to not exceed increasing R&D engine factories by more than 5 at any one time. It turns out that won't be a problem. Here's what I came up with:

Aichi Ha-60: I overproduced them so I have ~650 in the pool right now. I can use them for the engine bonus and keep accelerating the D4Y1 & Y2 as well as produce a bunch for the Kamikaze Corps later. The factories is off and available for conversion to something else. They are size 80 and 40.

Kawasaki Ha-60: 1 factory for 30. This is for the Ki-61/Ki-100 models. My goal is the Ki-100 but I will allocate 1 factory to the Ki-61. The remaining 5 factories will jump to the Ki-100 which uses the Ha-33 engine. So, I will not expand this engine size.

Mitsubishi Ha-31: They are currently used for the Ki-46-II and Ki-57-II. The Dinah will soon phase out and the Ki45 KAIc Nick FB will phase in. The size 65 engine factory is fine as is.

Mitsubishi Ha-32: Currently used for the Betty, Emily and Sally. The Betty is currently off with 100 in the pool so I am accumulating engines with >200 in the pool. I plan on using them for the B6N2 and Emily transport and later, the Francis. I'd like to get the engine bonus for the Jill. I have 2 factories (140 & 90) and will increase each by 15 in Feb 43.

Mitsubishi Ha-33: Eventually, I'll need ~350 a month of these engines. Currently, I have the Val (off for good), Jake (27 forever it seems), Nell (30 planes, but off with 100 in the pool), Mavis transport (4 and intermittent, will convert to Emily transport in 7/43 (Ha-32 engine)) and Tina (10 planes). Later I'll swap the Tina for the Tabby (also 10 planes this engine) and add the Ki-100 and Ki-102. I'll need ~120 more when the fighters come online (150 Ki-100-II in 8/43 & 90 Ki-102 some time in mid-1944 for 90 Ki-102b).

Mitsubishi Ha-42: No plans to build.

Mitsubishi Ha-43: I plan on using this engine for the A7M3-J. Not sure when it will arrive but I have 5 R&D factories allocated and will produce 150 a month when it does arrive. Currently, the engine factory is at 40 and will increase it to 150 beginning in 1/44.

Nakajima Ha-34: Used for the Helen (120 producing) and Tojo (90 producing). The Tojo IIc will arrive in 4/43 and it's production will increase to 180. I'm expanding the 2 engine factories (330 & 30) by 30 each over the next month. The pool is over 500 for the engine bonus for the Tojo.

Nakajima Ha-35: Ahh, the Ha-35. Total production is currently 390 (250, 70 & 70). I will increase each factory by 20 for a total of 450. Current production is 120 A6M5, 128 Ki-43-IIa and 15 Ki-45 KAIa. I have 4 Oscar and 6 Zero R&D factories. Some of them will become operational.

Nakajima Ha-44: There is one size 30 R&D factory. It's a short term build for the B6N1, which will be short lived. It'll come out in 5/43 and produce only until the accelerated B6N2 (Ha-32) arrives. This engine will then be phased out.

Nakajima Ha-45: Currently there are 120 (90 & 30) R&D factories. This will be used for the George, Frank, Grace and Peggy. I currently have all accelerated (6, 6, 4 & 1 factories respectively). Not sure how many George & Frank factories I'll make operational, but I plan on adding more R&D factories to both of them. My intent is to add 3 to each as they become available from other models and pull out 3 to keep the R&D at 6 factories each. We'll see if I can swing that. Anyway, I will expand both engine factories by 90 beginning in Jan 43 for an ultimate total of 300 engine factories. I want to get the engines operational as soon as possible to get the engine bonus going.

NE turbojet: I have no factories on this engine but plan on setting up 2 factories with 90 engines each, probably in late 43. I want to build the Ki-201 Kikka, but we'll see how that pans out. I currently have 6 R&D factories on the Kikka but it's going very slowly, which is not surprising. I don't expect this plane before 1945. Just a fantasy of mine.

So much for a short comment or 2.

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Post #: 2034

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 11:42:50 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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I understand moving through the Ki-61, because I've come to believe the Ki-100 is going to be a workhorse late war with its SR1/decent speed/armament, but why produce any Kawasaki Ha-60s for the Ki-61? It doesn't compare favorably to the Tojo.

Likewise, why not any Ha-42's? Yes, only one useful airframe uses it, but it's a very useful one. I haven't decided in my own game whether to use it or not, but I have expanded the Ha-42 factory to 30 as you don't lose factory size when you switch engines to another model. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, as well as Obvert's/Pax's

. IIRC it's the Ki-94 that uses the engine? Maybe the -93. I'm still undecided on both.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 11/5/2013 12:43:13 PM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 2035

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 12:40:05 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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My reasoning.... Yeah, right. Not too long after I started this game, someone asked what my plans were for R&D. My answer? Uhh....

This is the first game where I ever thought about R&D and only after someone asked me about it. My last game was with PDU off. PDU off was a pain in the butt, but actually easy to plan for. You needed a little of everything. There wasn't much need for any kind of R&D planning.

So, with that background, you can pretty much guess my reasoning for everything. I still really am not sure what stats are really valuable for different kinds of combat (and training for that matter). That makes it difficult for me to determine what plane to build and what plane to accelerate. I'm winging it here and basing most of my choices on other people's thoughts and a couple of things. I like low SR, high speed and good armament. Is that the best way of looking at it? Who knows. I certainly don't.

The Ki-61. *Sigh* I really don't know why I'm building it. I'm glad you mentioned it though. Actually, I lied about the Kawasaki Ha-60. I have 2 factories, one at 39(21) and the other at 9(21). So 9 days ago I increased the size 30 factory to 60 and added another size 30 factory. Can't read my own notes.

I guess I decided to build some Tonys. For the life of me, I can't remember why. Maybe because I can upgrade it to the Ki-100? By upgrading the engine factories to 90, I guess I had planned on pulling out 3 of the R&D factories and keeping the other 3 to march on with. That would have given me 90 Tony production but would have delayed the Ki-100 a lot.

I did a few calculations. If I keep 5 of the 6 factories and upgrade them to the Ki-100-I as soon as they are fully repaired, I'll get the -I in late Jun 43 and then the -II in Jan 44. If I go directly for the -II, I'll get it in Aug 43. If I keep all 6 factories in R&D it gets a little better. The -I on 1 Jun 43 then the -II in Nov 43. If I go directly to the -II, it comes in Jul 43. Not a lot of difference. I'm considering scrapping the Tony altogether and going with 6 R&D factories for the Ki-100-II. What do you guys think?

I'll have to take a look at the Ki-93. There's some reason I skipped it. Don't recall why right now. It might have been because it's a unique engine but I'm not sure.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/5/2013 1:41:59 PM >

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Post #: 2036

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 12:45:36 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Mitsubishi Ha-31: They are currently used for the Ki-46-II and Ki-57-II. The Dinah will soon phase out and the Ki45 KAIc Nick FB will phase in. The size 65 engine factory is fine as is.

I didn't save enough of these for the Ki-44 Id NF, which is the only early plane to use as NF in two big FB groups of mine. I would skip the Nick Ic (I'm still using the Nick Ia as it's armament is better with the CL 20mm) and look toward building the Nick Id.

quote:

Mitsubishi Ha-32: Currently used for the Betty, Emily and Sally. The Betty is currently off with 100 in the pool so I am accumulating engines with >200 in the pool. I plan on using them for the B6N2 and Emily transport and later, the Francis. I'd like to get the engine bonus for the Jill. I have 2 factories (140 & 90) and will increase each by 15 in Feb 43.

The Jack also uses this which is good later to diversify engine use.

quote:

Mitsubishi Ha-33: Eventually, I'll need ~350 a month of these engines. Currently, I have the Val (off for good), Jake (27 forever it seems), Nell (30 planes, but off with 100 in the pool), Mavis transport (4 and intermittent, will convert to Emily transport in 7/43 (Ha-32 engine)) and Tina (10 planes). Later I'll swap the Tina for the Tabby (also 10 planes this engine) and add the Ki-100 and Ki-102. I'll need ~120 more when the fighters come online (150 Ki-100-II in 8/43 & 90 Ki-102 some time in mid-1944 for 90 Ki-102b).

The Ki-102 and D4Y3-4 plus the transports and Ki-100 put ugh demands on this engine. More than I would have thought due to the number of 2E planes using it.

quote:

Mitsubishi Ha-43: I plan on using this engine for the A7M3-J. Not sure when it will arrive but I have 5 R&D factories allocated and will produce 150 a month when it does arrive. Currently, the engine factory is at 40 and will increase it to 150 beginning in 1/44.

It's also the Ki-83 and J7W1 if you get that far. Again, lots of use late.

quote:

Nakajima Ha-35: Ahh, the Ha-35. Total production is currently 390 (250, 70 & 70). I will increase each factory by 20 for a total of 450. Current production is 120 A6M5, 128 Ki-43-IIa and 15 Ki-45 KAIa. I have 4 Oscar and 6 Zero R&D factories. Some of them will become operational.

Good that I have a big pool of these as my big factories for this are in Tokyo, and they're beginning to suffer from the bombing. Something to consider is where the factories are placed. Osaka and Tokyo may lose them first, so make sure to put a big pool tougher for whatever is there.

quote:

Nakajima Ha-44: There is one size 30 R&D factory. It's a short term build for the B6N1, which will be short lived. It'll come out in 5/43 and produce only until the accelerated B6N2 (Ha-32) arrives. This engine will then be phased out.

If I get far enough the Ha-44 uses it as well. Might be a good idea to get a pool going just in case you make it to that plane. It might be the best all around fighter for the Japanese, but I don't quite know yet.

quote:

Nakajima Ha-45: Currently there are 120 (90 & 30) R&D factories. This will be used for the George, Frank, Grace and Peggy. I currently have all accelerated (6, 6, 4 & 1 factories respectively). Not sure how many George & Frank factories I'll make operational, but I plan on adding more R&D factories to both of them. My intent is to add 3 to each as they become available from other models and pull out 3 to keep the R&D at 6 factories each. We'll see if I can swing that. Anyway, I will expand both engine factories by 90 beginning in Jan 43 for an ultimate total of 300 engine factories. I want to get the engines operational as soon as possible to get the engine bonus going.

My totals are ~1000 factories for this engine!!! It's a lot of your most important late war planes, although the George is being phased out, there are a lot of Frank R n D factories converting by the end.

quote:

NE turbojet: I have no factories on this engine but plan on setting up 2 factories with 90 engines each, probably in late 43. I want to build the Ki-201 Kikka, but we'll see how that pans out. I currently have 6 R&D factories on the Kikka but it's going very slowly, which is not surprising. I don't expect this plane before 1945. Just a fantasy of mine.

I still only have two 10 point factories researching jets in 1/45, and I wonder if I'l get to use them at all. The unprepared two x30 factories are still 10 and 9 points from researching, so it's looking unlikely that I'll push the jets farther than 12/45. It's dicey if you'll ever get to the point to use them, but same for the Ki-94.

Here is the link to my engines and production in early 45. I think you've probably seen it but it could help see what you might need.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3437386

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Post #: 2037

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 1:02:03 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I understand moving through the Ki-61, because I've come to believe the Ki-100 is going to be a workhorse late war with its SR1/decent speed/armament, but why produce any Kawasaki Ha-60s for the Ki-61? It doesn't compare favorably to the Tojo.

Likewise, why not any Ha-42's? Yes, only one useful airframe uses it, but it's a very useful one. I haven't decided in my own game whether to use it or not, but I have expanded the Ha-42 factory to 30 as you don't lose factory size when you switch engines to another model. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning, as well as Obvert's/Pax's . IIRC it's the Ki-94 that uses the engine? Maybe the -93. I'm still undecided on both.

It's the Ki-93, and it seems expensive for what it is compared to the Ki-83 and the Ki-102 Ia which come earlier. I was curious, but decided (for once) to focus).

The Ki-100 is okay, but not much better than the Tojo. I had hopes, but the slow speed really kills chances against fighters. As low CAP and rear base CAP it's decent against bombers with the CL cannons and better durability than other planes. I still think it's the best service 1 plane late war, and it can be a decent kami with better staying power (the durability) than the Oscar. Should be WAY better looking at JWE numbers from the new Babes stuff and from accounts by pilots.

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Post #: 2038

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 1:36:57 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

My reasoning.... Yeah, right. Not too long after I started this game, someone asked what my plans were for R&D. My answer? Uhh.... This is the first game where I ever thought about R&D and only after someone asked me about it. My last game was with PDU off. PDU off was a pain in the butt, but actually easy to plan for. You needed a little of everything. There wasn't much need for any kind of R&D planning.

So, with that background, you can pretty much guess my reasoning for everything. I still really am not sure what stats are really valuable for different kinds of combat (and training for that matter). That makes it difficult for me to determine what plane to build and what plane to accelerate. I'm winging it here and basing most of my choices on other people's thoughts and a couple of things. I like low SR, high speed and good armament. Is that the best way of looking at it? Who knows. I certainly don't.

You're pretty right on.

For fighters;

1. Speed - (crsutton as stated that if a plane is 40mph faster than an IJ plane then the maneuver advantage of the other would be almost completely negated. So if you have an N1K2 at 469 vs an F6F5 at 480 at 20k then the maneuver advantage of the George makes up for the deficit in speed at least a bit, whereas against a Corsair at 417 it'll get eaten up). The Ki-84r is the best fighter in game for me so far (492mph). The Ki-83 and J7W1 are yet to be tested.

2. Armament - (and accuracy of armament, so CL is much better than F). The gun number is misleading as 2 x Ho-5 canons CL would be better than say 4 x 12.7mm F due to accuracy and effect of the canons on CL.

3. Armor - Saves pilots.

4. Durability - this can help planes to stick in battles and take damage, and really helps in battles with high defensive rating bombers like the 4E and B-25 strafer 2E (with gun ratings upward of 55!).

5. Service rating - It's better to have lower service ratings, of course, and it's important enough to keep some planes in production just for this reason. However, you'll not turn down using the best fighters like the Ki-84 variants or the jets at service 5.

6. Maneuver - As above a really high maneuver rating, like with many of the IJ planes can offset a speed deficit somewhat. I rank this lower as most IJ planes are better tan Allied in this category, but lack the speed after 42 to see this as an advantage to be selected for.

quote:

The Ki-61. *Sigh* I really don't know why I'm building it. I'm glad you mentioned it though. Actually, I lied about the Kawasaki Ha-60. I have 2 factories, one at 39(21) and the other at 9(21). So 9 days ago I increased the size 30 factory to 60 and added another size 30 factory. Can't read my own notes. I guess I decided to build some Tonys. For the life of me, I can't remember why. Maybe because I can upgrade it to the Ki-100? By upgrading the engine factories to 90, I guess I had planned on pulling out 3 of the R&D factories and keeping the other 3 to march on with. That would have given me 90 Tony production but would have delayed the Ki-100 a lot.

I did a few calculations. If I keep 5 of the 6 factories and upgrade them to the Ki-100-I as soon as they are fully repaired, I'll get the -I in late Jun 43 and then the -II in Jan 44. If I go directly for the -II, I'll get it in Aug 43. If I keep all 6 factories in R&D it gets a little better. The -I on 1 Jun 43 then the -II in Nov 43. If I go directly to the -II, it comes in Jul 43. Not a lot of difference. I'm considering scrapping the Tony altogether and going with 6 R&D factories for the Ki-100-II. What do you guys think?

I built the Tony Ib and after to see how they do. The Tony Id is okay but as with all of the Tony line it's speed to maneuver is very bad. It's not maneuverable enough and not fast enough. Basically a service 2 Ki-100 as the guns are identical as is the speed. Again, it seemed in reports to do better in the war, but who knows. It was also on the ground a lot being fixed or waiting for parts and fuel.

The Ki-61 KAI at 482mph (I think) is decent but service 4, so only in big bases likely behind the front lines. If you can and you don't think you're opponents eyebrows would go too far skyward at seeing the Ki-100-II two years ahead of it's usual arrival date then by all means do that. The extra speed mixed with the better maneuver at high altitudes, the durability and of course the CL canons would make that really useful so early.

quote:

I'll have to take a look at the Ki-93. There's some reason I skipped it. Don't recall why right now. It might have been because it's a unique engine but I'm not sure.

It's 488mph, two engined, of a type no other plane uses, and other planes are as good (Randy) or better (Ki-83) for the cost.

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/5/2013 9:55:46 PM >

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Post #: 2039

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/5/2013 7:18:27 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I like the Ki-100-II, it looks like a great bomber killer with SR1. Note that the Ki-61 upgrades straight through the line to the Ki-100-II at the end.

Thanks Obvert. Pretty definitive "skip it" on the Ki-93 and therefore the Ha-42 engine.

I look at the Nick-a and Nick-c as pretty much a wash. The Nick-c is a bit slower, -1 maneuver, but a little upgunned with a CL 37mm cannon vs. 2x12.7mm MGs. That looks like a good bomber killer to me, while the Nick-a looks better if it has to tangle with fighters. The Nick-c arrives in 43/5, so even without R&D on it you can get it in service by August of 1943, which could help against hordes of 2Es and B-17s *cough* Mike-in-New-Guinea *cough*. Though even the Nick-a is OK against bombers, and I suppose the George or M3 Jack is even better than the Nick-c.

Note: what does "TR-mounted" mean?

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2040

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