Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: House Stark

Although your bomber force is paying a heavy price, you do seem to be doing a lot of damage. From your screenshots it looks like you have disabled 4500 worth of supply production from his HI/LI. Considering that the Japanese home islands only produce ~26,000 supply (maybe a little more if he expanded industry), you've decreased his home islands supply production by almost 20%. That's going to hurt if he tries to rebuild ground units, take on massive amounts of replacement aircraft in his squadrons, or if he has to repair or expand any more factories.

I agree that flying long range night missions into intense opposition with inexperienced bomber crews is a probably a bad idea. Are there any isolated Japanese outposts which you can safely use as live target practice for a couple months to give your new pilots some experience as you rebuild aircraft pools?

You mentioned that the B29-B is coming online soon, but will probably be useless do to its lack of defensive armament. Are there any cities which lack night fighter coverage? If so they could be useful, since with the bigger bomb load even 45exp pilots might be able to hit something if they made it to the target.

quote:

Night Naval bombardment of Manila at 79,77

Allied Ships
BB Missouri
BB Wisconsin
BB New Jersey
BB Iowa

Japanese ground losses:
567 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 17 destroyed, 42 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (6 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 20 (5 destroyed, 15 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 105th Division, at 79,77 (Manila)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 25
B-24J Liberator x 10
B-17F Fortress x 4
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 3
B-24J Liberator x 91
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
B-25G Mitchell x 10
B-25H Mitchell x 31
B-25J1 Mitchell x 4
B-25J11 Mitchell x 5
P-38L Lightning x 15
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 26
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 7
PBJ-1H Mitchell x 7

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 18 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 8 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 2 damaged
PBJ-1H Mitchell: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
286 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 58 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7049 troops, 693 guns, 462 vehicles, Assault Value = 8023

Defending force 117298 troops, 1525 guns, 1060 vehicles, Assault Value = 2816

Japanese ground losses:
148 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 18 (4 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

FP training or warships goes NavS and then either ASW or Recon for their second. How are they for your BBs going into Manila?? I set them for night with the target as Manila and Recon even if out of range when set.

quote:


Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 218119 troops, 3742 guns, 6397 vehicles, Assault Value = 8111

Defending force 115599 troops, 1511 guns, 1048 vehicles, Assault Value = 2763

Allied adjusted assault: 3060

Japanese adjusted defense: 2955

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
8632 casualties reported
Squads: 102 destroyed, 728 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 211 disabled
Engineers: 44 destroyed, 169 disabled
Guns lost 346 (46 destroyed, 300 disabled)
Vehicles lost 49 (6 destroyed, 43 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
8225 casualties reported
Squads: 49 destroyed, 906 disabled
Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 235 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 154 disabled
Guns lost 137 (6 destroyed, 131 disabled)
Vehicles lost 406 (38 destroyed, 368 disabled)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What if you bomb from really, really high on days when the weather forecast is clear or clear-ish, and during the day? If you bomb somewhere he isn't expecting, he probably won't have a CAP up, and if you bomb from high enough you should (theoretically) be above his flak ceiling.

Ok, so Nagoya may not have been a good example. I haven't loaded up the game to check. But I know Nagasaki has quite a lot of industry.

At this point, he won't be repairing any HI/LI. Anything you damage may as well be destroyed, except for the difference in VPs of 20 vs. 2. So if you're just going for damaging his economy, you could bomb during the day and target industries directly rather than relying on fires from Manpower hits, which are harder to get at the smaller Manpower centers like Nagoya even though they still have plenty of factories. What if you targeted, for example, his Ha-45 factories? You may achieve less overall destruction but more effect in his ability to resist as you reduce the number of Franks he's able to produce, etc.

IMO, if you bomb from 9k you're going to take pretty damn heavy losses. There's a reason the historical strat bombing campaign occurred at high altitudes (...right?).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What if you bomb from really, really high on days when the weather forecast is clear or clear-ish, and during the day? If you bomb somewhere he isn't expecting, he probably won't have a CAP up, and if you bomb from high enough you should (theoretically) be above his flak ceiling.

Ok, so Nagoya may not have been a good example. I haven't loaded up the game to check. But I know Nagasaki has quite a lot of industry.

At this point, he won't be repairing any HI/LI. Anything you damage may as well be destroyed, except for the difference in VPs of 20 vs. 2. So if you're just going for damaging his economy, you could bomb during the day and target industries directly rather than relying on fires from Manpower hits, which are harder to get at the smaller Manpower centers like Nagoya even though they still have plenty of factories. What if you targeted, for example, his Ha-45 factories? You may achieve less overall destruction but more effect in his ability to resist as you reduce the number of Franks he's able to produce, etc.

IMO, if you bomb from 9k you're going to take pretty damn heavy losses. There's a reason the historical strat bombing campaign occurred at high altitudes (...right?).

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

As I understand it based on very limited knowledge what JeffK and witpgs says is true. The B29s had very limited success early on. LeMay then ordered them to go to low ALT. According to one B29 pilot they were so low that the Jap heavy AA couldn´t hit them because they couldn´t set their fuses for that low alt. Fighters wasn´t an issue as they couldn´t catch the bombers anyway so they ditched their guns too.

Going lower meant they spent less fuel giving room for more bombs. This is when results started to show. I guess this is what the different B29 models in the game is representing?

An interesting tidbit: During the firebombing of Tokyo one of the B29s pilots said the upwinds caused by the fires caused the worst turbulence he have EVER encountered and he saw at least on B29 being broken into bits by that turbulence. Talk about shaky ride!

quote:

According to one B29 pilot they were so low that the Jap heavy AA couldn´t hit them because they couldn´t set their fuses for that low alt. Fighters wasn´t an issue as they couldn´t catch the bombers anyway so they ditched their guns too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What if you bomb from really, really high on days when the weather forecast is clear or clear-ish, and during the day? If you bomb somewhere he isn't expecting, he probably won't have a CAP up, and if you bomb from high enough you should (theoretically) be above his flak ceiling.

Ok, so Nagoya may not have been a good example. I haven't loaded up the game to check. But I know Nagasaki has quite a lot of industry.

At this point, he won't be repairing any HI/LI. Anything you damage may as well be destroyed, except for the difference in VPs of 20 vs. 2. So if you're just going for damaging his economy, you could bomb during the day and target industries directly rather than relying on fires from Manpower hits, which are harder to get at the smaller Manpower centers like Nagoya even though they still have plenty of factories. What if you targeted, for example, his Ha-45 factories? You may achieve less overall destruction but more effect in his ability to resist as you reduce the number of Franks he's able to produce, etc.

IMO, if you bomb from 9k you're going to take pretty damn heavy losses. There's a reason the historical strat bombing campaign occurred at high altitudes (...right?).

Sorry Lokasenna. Missed your post last night and didn´t see it until Jeff quoted you this morning.

We are playing with advanced weather off so I have no way of predicting it! I have tried some extreme high altitude bombings in sandbox. You simply don´t hit anything from 30k. I tried over 10 times with 200 B29s and not one hit was scored. And thats trying to hit MAN. Specific factories are very, very hard to hit even in daylight at 9k. Also it seems that despite the CAP being down at 10k and just a 10 minute warning they could get up to the bombers at 30k on several occasion causing massive losses to the B29s.

This might be the only use for the "B" model though but at night. Max alt at night and hope for a fluke hit!

Going at day simply isn´t an option. The results would be the same as over Manila with the accidental strike that wiped out almost 100 4Es. I would probably destroy the entire B29 force in just a day.

I´ve tried it a lot in sandbox and the only viable targets looking at the results are the MAN/HI/LI heavy Tokyo and Osaka. I think it because it simply so much of it in those two places. Anything outside those places simply doesn´t cause enough damage (at night). Not sure why but possibly something to do in which way the damage is calculated.

Its quite boring having your options so limited by the game. Perhaps in a couple of months if I can get within sweep range and my fighter pools have recovered enough a short (2-3 days) sweep offensive over the HI might open a window for the B29s to try a daylight attack. I find that quite unlikely though as I don´t think the Japanese air force will collapse in this game.

But who knows. Anything can happen!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Does he really have a CAP up everywhere that's worth hitting? It may seem like I'm pushing you on this, but I really think there are more options and possibly some viable day bombing targets, or even unopposed night bombing targets. Or maybe you should just hold off for some weeks and then hit him out of the blue, somewhere you haven't hit him before.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Manila at 79,77

Allied Ships
BB Alabama
BB Massachusetts
BB Indiana
BB South Dakota

Japanese ground losses:
607 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 23 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 17 (13 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (3 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 102nd Division, at 79,77 (Manila)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 46
Liberator GR.VI x 23
B-24J Liberator x 5
B-17E Fortress x 7
B-17F Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 9
B-24J Liberator x 151
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
B-25G Mitchell x 11
B-25H Mitchell x 43
B-25J1 Mitchell x 19
B-25J11 Mitchell x 6
P-38J Lightning x 16
P-38L Lightning x 46
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 30
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 11
PBJ-1H Mitchell x 3
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 10 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 14 damaged
B-25G Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 10 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 damaged
PBJ-1H Mitchell: 1 damaged
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
700 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 71 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7033 troops, 693 guns, 462 vehicles, Assault Value = 7323

Defending force 105493 troops, 1455 guns, 1036 vehicles, Assault Value = 1940

Japanese ground losses:
353 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 24
Liberator GR.VI x 17
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 12
B-24J Liberator x 145
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
B-25G Mitchell x 6
B-25H Mitchell x 52
B-25J1 Mitchell x 17
B-25J11 Mitchell x 14
P-38J Lightning x 32
P-38L Lightning x 83
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 14
PBJ-1H Mitchell x 10
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 4 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 19 damaged
B-25G Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 14 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 damaged
PBJ-1H Mitchell: 5 damaged
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
795 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 125 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
All from Alfred's Logistics guide. Amazing how we can play through years of game and not really know these basics! Unless we have to, like I do now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Now, the player has choices as to how and most especially WHEN to spend this HI. The easiest way to look at this is in 100K HI chunks. 100K HI will 'buy' you about 2800 1E ac equivalents or about 1 ID or 1 accelerated CV. OK, nice and easy.

quote:

Wonder how much supply it will cost on top of that to get the IDs back to strength?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery
About 300,000