Is Solitaire play fun?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Is Solitaire play fun?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> Is Solitaire play fun?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/9/2013 9:11:54 PM

midnight_mangler

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

Well, is it? ;-)

I am not much of a multiplayer kind of guy. I play more against an AI. Given that this is not an option, I was wondering if Solitaire play could be an option for me as the game looks very intriguing. However, the thought of strategizing against myself seems kind of daft as obviously there is no element of surprise. How do you solitaire players enjoy it? What makes it fun for you, given that there is no fog of war? Thanks for your impressions as I am quite interested in the idea of this game.

Cheers
Mangler

Post #: 1

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/9/2013 9:26:58 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: midnight_mangler

Well, is it? ;-)

I am not much of a multiplayer kind of guy. I play more against an AI. Given that this is not an option, I was wondering if Solitaire play could be an option for me as the game looks very intriguing. However, the thought of strategizing against myself seems kind of daft as obviously there is no element of surprise. How do you solitaire players enjoy it? What makes it fun for you, given that there is no fog of war? Thanks for your impressions as I am quite interested in the idea of this game.

Cheers
Mangler

Hi - first of all the program makes it really easy to play against yourself. Secondly, your strategy might not be a surprise for long against an experienced player. In Solitaire your opponent is as good as you, which means that your strategy is immediatly tested for flaws. You will be amazed that your opponent will find holes in your strategy you would not have come up with in the first place. You might want to plan ahead a "standard" build and placement strategy for your opponent until the moment he would recognize your strategy.

I have played a couple of solitaire games over the last 2 months and enjoyed that. The advantage is that you either can let your strategy "happen" to see how it evolves, and/or you have a more intelligent opponent than the AI will be (probably - given you are in this hobby and interested in global wargames).
(although Steve might surprise us on the AI).

Playing against a live opponent is of course even more fun.

(in reply to midnight_mangler)

Post #: 2

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/9/2013 9:40:11 PM

michaelbaldur

Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline

I have played this game for 6 years now (as a beta tester) and I still find it funny.

when you set your self a objective, hours go by while you get closer.

off cause you need to be a little split personality to play against your self,

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 3

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/9/2013 11:26:33 PM

aaronden

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/2/2010
Status: offline

I've play chess against myself for years, and if that's fun WiF must be good. : )

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 4

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/9/2013 11:26:33 PM

Rosseau

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline

My first time playing WiF, and here is what I am finding. A game like Strategic Command 2 GC, AoD and AoC they have nurtured the AI from the beginning and there is a nice editor. But to me it would be horrible solitaire because the front end is so simple - you're just moving units around. Not that it is a simple game, per se.

WiF there is so much going on with the options and turn cycles, you're really not sure what's going to happen. So even in solitaire, there is that one more (long) turn feel. And I am just playing Barbarossa. Planning global strategy for both sides is sure to be considerably more engrossing.

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 5

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 12:16:16 AM

goulash

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/4/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

My first time playing WiF, and here is what I am finding. A game like Strategic Command 2 GC, AoD and AoC they have nurtured the AI from the beginning and there is a nice editor. But to me it would be horrible solitaire because the front end is so simple - you're just moving units around. Not that it is a simple game, per se.

WiF there is so much going on with the options and turn cycles, you're really not sure what's going to happen. So even in solitaire, there is that one more (long) turn feel. And I am just playing Barbarossa. Planning global strategy for both sides is sure to be considerably more engrossing.

That was my fear as having Strategic Command 2 myself, I would never dream of soloing that type of game (again due to the simplistic interface) and I was worried this would be similar but I do now get a feeling it will be a totally different experience so I just gone ahead and bought it anyway. If it does not work, I guess it was one of my most expensive poor game decisions :) but whom know where it will lead? I wanna be the world champion and beat everyone to a pulp on this muhahah

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 6

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 12:57:15 AM

DSWargamer

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline

Is solitaire fun?

Really an impossible question. It's like 'why do people drink beer?' I mean, I know of plenty that don't like the taste. But I like it.

Why do they still sell board games? I mean, opponents for board games, they are rare and that's been the truth since 1970. But they still sell.

There is simply nothing wrong with playing a side, making the best possible moves you can reason out, then putting the other side's hat on and doing the exact same thing again.

It comes down to, do you like the subject matter enough to want to examine it while simulating it. I can't for instance enjoy WW3 concept games. But I have emotional baggage called Cold War syndrome. I didn't think the 60s and the 70s were very fun. Thus, I have no real interest in games of that subject matter, so it's not relevant to me personally if Flashpoint is any good.

But I like examining the time period through board games. They also help visualize the scope of the event. They allow you to ponder, what would have happened, if they had pursued this course of action? Good games permit a decent window.

Sometimes a game is just a game, and sometimes a game is just an interesting interactive tool.

I will likely never have the chance to play this against a living breathing adversary. But I likely will greatly enjoy playing it.

Everyone approaches 'fun' in their own way.

_____________________________

I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.

(in reply to goulash)

Post #: 7

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 1:44:26 AM

Dr. Foo

Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

I would much rather play against an opponent but I just do not have the time to commit to a long game. Since most AI's are a joke I often play all my games solitaire. Yes, I do have fun but it's sort of hard to catch myself by surprise or make a surprise landing in an unexpected place. I just give myself a few house rules to make it a bit more challenging and if the option is available turn the fog of war to max.

Often turns take so long I actually do forget about units I cannot see and move into a place that I regret once the opposing unit appears. I also try to set limits on units for example, the CW cannot have more than X amount of units in North Africa before 42 and must keep X amount of units in the UK or it could trigger a Sea lion event, also I make the Germans keep X amount of units as garrisons in occupied counties...stuff like that keeps me from overwhelming a weaker force. I have to work with what I have free and it helps keep the game interesting.

_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*

(in reply to DSWargamer)

Post #: 8

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 2:01:03 AM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

I think solitaire World in Flames is an OK experience. There isn't any Fog of War in the game anyway; all the units are out for anyone to see what is coming. The solitaire German player defending France can't cover every beach perfectly anyway.

The one more difficult thing to do in a solitaire game is decide Japanese grand strategy, especially with regard to Russia. The historical detente is certainly a useful option. Or you can decide ahead of time to purposely explore a Japanese or Russian DOW and make one of the two countries play without awareness of that for a few turns. Or you can set up a small chart with a die roll to decide what to do on that key question.

In Europe there are far less of these worries. A little bit with how Italy gets into the war, but it is not as complicated as Japan<>Russia.

(in reply to Dr. Foo)

Post #: 9

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 2:14:20 AM

FroBodine

Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

Pardon my ignorance, but I have seen DOW a few times now in various threads. What does it mean? Declaration of War?

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 10

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 2:15:44 AM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

Yes, Declaration of War.

(in reply to FroBodine)

Post #: 11

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 2:22:14 AM

Skeleton

Posts: 560
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline

I have to chime in here, as I bought this game without any interest in solitaire play and more to learn and in advance of the it being PBEM capable and down the road, with an AI. Yes, as much as I can't believe it, solitaire is fun! As a complete novice to WIF, I can actually say, I am enjoying learning via solitaire. If you are on fence and don't have any qualms about it being what it is today and can afford it, I whole heartedly say, take the plunge.

(in reply to midnight_mangler)

Post #: 12

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 2:49:22 AM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

Hi Midnight

Most important-- there is no fog of war!

I have been playing Guadalcanal over and over for about a year as a beta tester and every battle is different, every outcome is different, I have played it as a fast start [novice rules] but the real game starts when you start a new game and you put in the optional rules that you prefer. Many optional rule do not change the game much such as adding divisons, artillery etc, but the carrier planes rule, the limited overseas supply rule, the amphibious rule and the oil rule change the game dramatically IMO.

In my AAr on I think page 6 [Battle of the Coral sea] was played strictly by program rules the only hedging I did was I forced interceptions instead of letting the computer decide but all combat was decided by the computer and rarely did I ever see the same outcome twice in a row if ever.

It is possible that no matter how many time you sail your fleet into waters where enemy fleets are patrolling you may never see combat, depending on the die roll and the weather. Is that a good thing I dont know but it could be pretty realistic. If I remember right there were only several naval encounters in 4 years of the Pacific theater,
1-Battle of the Coral sea 2-Battle of Midway 3- Battle of Leyte gulf, minor skirmishes around Salvo island near Guadalcanal.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/10/2013 4:56:08 AM >

(in reply to midnight_mangler)

Post #: 13

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 3:53:37 AM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

WiF is one of the best solitaire games because it combines things you can't control - like the weather and turn length and whether searching a sea zone will be successful*; with things you can control but must constantly make decisions as to what and when and how. You can't move all your units every impulse, so you have to make trade-offs. These are the ingredients of what made WiF the best WWII boardgame ever published, and what kept it popular for over 25 years.

The amazing thing is that after all those considerations and decisions, when you change sides, you suddenly see things you didn't anticipate moments before, even though they were there staring at you. This fact alone means solitaire play will hone and improve your skills when it comes time to play someone else.

*I could also say land battles have variable results too here, but if you take too many chances with low odds attacks, you'll get slaughtered by the you on the other side providing he doesn't do the same.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 14

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:00:40 AM

FroBodine

Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

*I could also say land battles have variable results too here, but if you take too many chances with low odds attacks, you'll get slaughtered by the you on the other side providing he doesn't do the same.

Hahaha! Well, the me on the other side is pretty stupid too, so it should be a wonderfully even match! I can't wait to start playing.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 15

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:10:05 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

I think MWIF is great fun solitaire! I've played board wargames solitaire my whole life, but WiF is better-suited for solo play than most. As others have said, there isn't much fog of war in the conventional sense: you know where units are. But there is fog of war in another sense: you don't know when turns will end, how weather will change, which units will appear, when the US will enter, etc. These uncertainties bring surprises to both sides.

More generally, I've always found that the "other me" sees stuff the "first me" doesn't see, and vice-versa. Axis Grotius will make a series of moves that seem devastating -- and then Allied Grotius will find holes in them that Axis Grotius honestly never noticed.

Call me crazy, but I think solitaire MWIF is at least as fun as playing against an AI.

_____________________________

(in reply to FroBodine)

Post #: 16

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:13:23 AM

aaatoysandmore

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline

quote:

This fact alone means solitaire play will hone and improve your skills when it comes time to play someone else.

And what about those who never intend to play anyone else? It does noting for me or anyone else that just wants an AI player to play against. Who doesn't care one ounce about playing himself. How you can call that fun is beyond me. It's the 'worst' possible situation and gameplay for me and I would never pay $99 for a game just to play myself. If I'm going to pay $99 for a game it had better have an AI of some kind. For $99 it had better be an awesome ai as well.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 17

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:19:01 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

This fact alone means solitaire play will hone and improve your skills when it comes time to play someone else.

And what about those who never intend to play anyone else? It does noting for me or anyone else that just wants an AI player to play against. Who doesn't care one ounce about playing himself. How you can call that fun is beyond me. It's the 'worst' possible situation and gameplay for me and I would never pay $99 for a game just to play myself. If I'm going to pay $99 for a game it had better have an AI of some kind. For $99 it had better be an awesome ai as well.

warspite1

Fine - so two options - one, wait for the AI or two, give the game a miss given the cost. Why do you need to go from thread to thread bitching about the lack of an AI (in the initial release) when this has been known about for ages?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 18

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:22:53 AM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

And what about those who never intend to play anyone else? It does noting for me or anyone else that just wants an AI player to play against. Who doesn't care one ounce about playing himself. How you can call that fun is beyond me. It's the 'worst' possible situation and gameplay for me and I would never pay $99 for a game just to play myself. If I'm going to pay $99 for a game it had better have an AI of some kind. For $99 it had better be an awesome ai as well.

Suit yourself. I'd suggest you put your 99 bucks in the bank now and when the AI version comes out, you can buy it and maybe the interest you earn will cover any upcharge for it.

Given your current state of mind I can almost guarantee you that you will find the AI to be "awesome", no matter what.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 11/10/2013 5:23:32 AM >

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 19

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:26:43 AM

Symple

Posts: 172
Joined: 9/14/2013
Status: offline

Oh dear, so many people find AI better than their own play. I do not get this. I play all my games versus myself. Never have seen an AI worth my own play.

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 20

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:27:50 AM

Johnus

Posts: 615
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

I played boardgames solitaire exclusively until computer wargames were invented. Some games were difficult to play solitaire but most were fine. This game seems to be in the fine category.

Bought it today without any intention other than playing it against myself. No regrets so far. It looks awesome. I'll check back in on this after a year or two of play. I have a feeling I'm going to get my 100 bucks worth.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 21

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 5:33:21 AM

Greyshaft

Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symple

Oh dear, so many people find AI better than their own play. I do not get this. I play all my games versus myself. Never have seen an AI worth my own play.

I see the advantage of an AI in that they sometimes do things that I would never have considered doing, which often destroys my ever-evolving "perfect" strategy.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Symple)

Post #: 22

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 6:15:51 AM

FroBodine

Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

Sure, an AI will be a very welcome addition to this game, and I personally can't wait. It may not be a great opponent, but it will give you something to think about as you play, which is not too shabby in my opinion.

In the meantime, I will learn the game solitaire, have hours of big fun, and maybe play an online game or two with a friend.

Game on!

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 23

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 6:21:18 AM

midnight_mangler

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

Thanks a lot guys! I have a better understanding of the allure of solitaire play. As a guy who has played computerized war games exclusively I didn't quite get the point but I do now. I'll still mull it over a bit (having recently splashed out on CMANO and Flashpoint - both excellent games by the way!) but I'm even more tempted than before to jump in.

Thanks again!

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 24

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 1:07:10 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symple

Oh dear, so many people find AI better than their own play. I do not get this. I play all my games versus myself. Never have seen an AI worth my own play.

I wouldn't say better and I'm not hearing others say that either? But with FOW and other variables, not knowing what your opponent (human OR computer) is up to is challenging enough until you confirm or deny possible courses of action. Kinda hard to hide that stuff from yourself.

As for AI worthiness, some games' computer opponents have proven to be quite bad but some others have proven to be quite competent and challenging. Those who based their negative opinions on bad AI experiences 10-20 years ago might want to get out and see what else is available these days. Or, just keep doing what you're doing and good luck with that. Fine with me.

(in reply to Symple)

Post #: 25

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 1:57:07 PM

Easo79

Posts: 99
Joined: 7/12/2013
From: Mallorca, Illes Balears
Status: offline

I have always had much faith in my ability to surprise myself, so solo play will suit me perfectly.

Besides, even when deciding broad strategic pathways it is possible to introduce some degree of external uncertainty. E.g, the Japanese Imperial Council decision to "go South" or "go North" can be replicated with a flipped coin, or, for the matter, with my cat beginning its meal with the milk instead of the fish.

_____________________________

A l�hora que el sol se pon, bevent al raig de la font, he assaborit els secrets de la terra misteriosa.

Part de dins de la canal he vist l�aigua virginal venir del fosc naixement a regalar-me la boca.

(in reply to pzgndr)

Post #: 26

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 3:53:13 PM

Banquet

Posts: 1184
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: England
Status: offline

Can someone explain - if playing solo, do you control all countries? I mean apart from the majors - are minors like Denmark, Greece, etc represented? If so, it must take an absoluate age, playing solo, going through every unit of every country on every turn?

(in reply to Easo79)

Post #: 27

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 3:54:55 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Banquet

Can someone explain - if playing solo, do you control all countries? I mean apart from the majors - are minors like Denmark, Greece, etc represented? If so, it must take an absoluate age, playing solo, going through every unit of every country on every turn?

warspite1

The minor countries are only brought into play when attacked or aligned, so no you are not going through every country every turn.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Banquet)

Post #: 28

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 3:55:25 PM

Grim.Reaper

Posts: 1355
Joined: 12/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Banquet

Can someone explain - if playing solo, do you control all countries? I mean apart from the majors - are minors like Denmark, Greece, etc represented? If so, it must take an absoluate age, playing solo, going through every unit of every country on every turn?

And to add to this question....I am assuming there must be a feature within the game that allows you to move to the next counter that has not performed any actions yet, is that a correct assumption? If not, how do you efficiently go to every counter and ensure you have taken action?

_____________________________

(in reply to Banquet)

Post #: 29

RE: Is Solitaire play fun? - 11/10/2013 4:14:15 PM

goulash

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/4/2011
Status: offline

grim Reaper, I am not a board game player per say and am totally new to WIF rules etc but I did buy the game last night and I can tell you this much

1. Yes there is a next button to flick you from unit to unit
2. The ui gives messages etc when your move is illegal so it will be easier on the noob like myself.
3. It appears that you will get a core set of units that never change per game and then you get other units that are different.
4. In some cases e.g. setting up convoys etc into position, you can if you want select pre-sets or do them manually yourself or even make your own preset set up and save it for another game etc.
5. Standard pre-sets are for the core units only and do not deploy the other units you are given.

The videos give a great overview, I think they should have placed them on youtube myself or linked them for download so players can see what they can expect. Some are like 40 mins long though. I do not think a HOI 3 player will struggle too much getting into this game myself as I am feeling comfy with much of the terminology.

I am really looking forward to things such as weather surprises etc as that is.

I will be honest with you, this game looks a beast and I am really hoping a lot of people start to get into it enough that a community of players grows and grows online.

Hope this helps and if your still on the edge, request more gameplay vids etc so you can be tipped over

. I was weaker minded and after 2hrs doing a bit of searching and deciding, I just caved in and got merely due to the apparent complexity of it and that others have stated, solitaire play is quite a valid way to play.

(in reply to Grim.Reaper)

Post #: 30