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Resources - 11/22/2013 9:22:18 AM   
Schnaufer

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 11/21/2010
Status: offline 		Unless the Axis can grab lots of resources and oil is the game just a pain in the butt for them ? Looking at the chart in Vol. 1, even if the Axis conquers Russia, unless the US can be kept out of the war it will be very hard to win a battle of attrition ?
Thanks for the help.

Have a good one all
Post #: 1
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 10:00:51 AM   
Admiral Delabroglio


Posts: 116
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		The allies have more resources, indeed.
However, most of the time, Germany can conquer the NL, Belgium, France.
Also, the Euro Axis can either conquer Spain, take Gibraltar and make the CW fight for Suez shipping reinforcements the long way, or occupy some of Russian Europe. If lucky or skilled and fast, it can do both. Japan can grab one or two(?) extra Chinese resources, the Burma oil, the Malayan resources and the NEI oil. If things go ill for the CW, Japan can even conquer Australia + New Caledonia, or India.

The USA and Russia can come back, but they are racing against time. If the Axis manages to delay them enough, the axis will win. So, the Axis has two to two and a half years to grab a place in the sun and establish a defensive perimeter. Then, make the allies pay for every hex. A battle of attrition is a slow process.

Same for Japan. If Japan manages to fight air naval battle in US invasion targets, Japan can destroy or damage US transport or amphibious ships and delay the US. The US out produces every axis country (perhaps not all of them together) but requires time to bring those build points to battle.

Best regards

_____________________________

Admiral Delabroglio

(in reply to Schnaufer)
Post #: 2
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 11:59:29 AM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		And don't forget: the Axis don't have to conquer the world. They have to survive with a couple of victory cities under there control at the end of J/A 1945 game turn...

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Peter

(in reply to Admiral Delabroglio)
Post #: 3
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 12:12:44 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

And don't forget: the Axis don't have to conquer the world. They have to survive with a couple of victory cities under there control at the end of J/A 1945 game turn...


Or during the Peace Step win an Automatic Victory.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 4
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 12:19:35 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

And don't forget: the Axis don't have to conquer the world. They have to survive with a couple of victory cities under there control at the end of J/A 1945 game turn...


Or during the Peace Step win an Automatic Victory.

I've never seen that one in a game happening...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 5
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 12:48:01 PM   
Redan


Posts: 129
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: a Quonset hut in Shangri-la
Status: offline 		This is a game. Every single WW2 game is loaded heavily in favor of the Axis. I don't remember ever seeing one that had, say, any optional rules favoring France. Maybe allowing them to freely enter Belgium. All the games assume that by taking Indonesia the Japanese had oil...They didn't..Had to fill up in Brumei because the oil straight out of the ground was high enough grade to pump straight into the ships. The Dutch did a pretty good job blowing up refineries in advance of the invasion. Japan against US was like California at War with rest of US, and the rest of the US had a duplicate California. (where did I read that?) Games have to be rigged a lot of times. I measn, the krauts never took Moscow or Leningrad, did they? Or Suez... Japan did not seize much of India, or Ceylon, or Madagascar...or Australia. Six months into the War they were pretty much doomed at Midway. Had no system to replace pilots... Army & Navy didn't speak to each other... Game balance is why there are so many pro axis junk options. Sea Lion? I think not.

_____________________________

"You can't stack units in this game. This is Tactics II, hexes haven't been invented yet..."

(in reply to Schnaufer)
Post #: 6
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 3:50:57 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		I agree some games are geared toward the Axis, but the majority I would say are not specificly giving the Axis any advantages, but we, the players, are using hindsight to use the resources of the Axis more efficiently. Since the Axis has designed things for a war while the Allies had not, with our hindsight the Axis has major advantages that the historical counterparts did not. Like no need to wait for spring weather to attack the lowlands or France as an example.

Obviously, Redan has not played WitP AE since he stated that '...ALL the games assume by taking Indonesia the Japanese had oil.' In Ae you will get oil for taking the DEI, but it normally takes a LONG time to repair the wells and lots of supplies need to be shipped in to do it that are needed for other things, like running a war . So i can assure that ALL games are not as Radan states as I am pretty sure they have not played every WWII game out there

Sorry Radan, I do not mean to pick on you but saying ALL games do a certain thing when I know for a fact not all of them do not, I had to respond.

(in reply to Redan)
Post #: 7
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 6:40:04 PM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Sorry Radan, I do not mean to pick on you but saying ALL games do a certain thing when I know for a fact not all of them do not, I had to respond.


Yeah, and Age of Dragons does not favor the Axis either

Henri

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 8
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 11:25:23 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Somehow I do not think Age of Dragons is the type of war game he was refering to

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 9
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 11:40:11 PM   
Redan


Posts: 129
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: a Quonset hut in Shangri-la
Status: offline 		I agree with you. Numdydar. I was just exaggerating to make a point. I have played AE a lot, but never played the Japanese. Maybe I should have said all WW2 games CAN be loaded heavily in favor of the Axis.

_____________________________

"You can't stack units in this game. This is Tactics II, hexes haven't been invented yet..."

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 10
RE: Resources - 11/22/2013 11:53:27 PM   
sunlit uplands


Posts: 11
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Redan

This is a game. Every single WW2 game is loaded heavily in favor of the Axis. I don't remember ever seeing one that had, say, any optional rules favoring France. Maybe allowing them to freely enter Belgium.


Even if France had setup defensive positions in Belgium, I think the Wermacht would have still steamrolled them.

(in reply to Redan)
Post #: 11
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 2:16:01 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Redan

I agree with you. Numdydar. I was just exaggerating to make a point. I have played AE a lot, but never played the Japanese. Maybe I should have said all WW2 games CAN be loaded heavily in favor of the Axis.


Unfortunately, it can be hard to determine if the game system itself is biased or if our hindsight is the issue. German generals at the time had no idea if the attack on France would work or not. But since we know how weak France is, we can rush in, even in bad weather to get the additional resources for the rest of the war. Plus go into the Balkans, etc.

So it is a chicken and egg situation

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 11/23/2013 3:16:39 AM >

(in reply to Redan)
Post #: 12
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 9:11:10 AM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Now, I don't know if you have been paying attention with regards to the AAR's which have been made, but I can tell you that France isn't a walk over at all. Sure, it will fall, but be prepared to get losses with the Germans.

No wrong setup of units here, as was done in WWII when the French put a lot of units in and behind the Maginot line. No sir. If you don't get a long SO 1939 turn with good weather, you are in for a tough fight.

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Peter

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 13
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 9:51:57 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I've seen several games where France held out until US entered the war and Axis surrendered without ever taking out France. France surviving 1940 is not all that uncommon.

And Germany often needs to spend two offensive chits to get to Paris.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 14
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 10:53:24 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunlit.uplands


quote:

ORIGINAL: Redan

This is a game. Every single WW2 game is loaded heavily in favor of the Axis. I don't remember ever seeing one that had, say, any optional rules favoring France. Maybe allowing them to freely enter Belgium.


Even if France had setup defensive positions in Belgium, I think the Wermacht would have still steamrolled them.


Actually if you play WIF with the Leaders in Flames expansion you can try it out. One of the french leaders let you stack a full stack in a neutral countrys capital. That makes the Dyle-line pretty darned defensible. I have seen it once and it made the conquest of France a living hell for the German. They did in the end I think but it took a tree-pronged attack over the alps, the Maginot and the Dyle.

(in reply to sunlit uplands)
Post #: 15
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 6:21:12 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

... it took a tree-pronged attack over the alps, the Maginot and the Dyle.



"tree-pronged attack" = visions of hordes of German infantry marching westward armed with sharpened sticks

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/Greyshaft

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 16
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 7:12:52 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

... it took a tree-pronged attack over the alps, the Maginot and the Dyle.



"tree-pronged attack" = visions of hordes of German infantry marching westward armed with sharpened sticks

Isn't that how MacBeth was defeated?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 17
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 8:20:47 PM   
alexvand


Posts: 380
Joined: 11/29/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Going back to the OP.

I think your definition of "win" doesn't quite fit this game.

In this game the Axis will be defeated. That's a given. (Except very rare wild swings of luck or outright incompetence on the Allies part.)

The key question of the game for the Axis is this: Can you do better than the Axis historically did? This is measured by control of objective hexes. If you control more objectives than the Axis did historically at the end of game time, then you win.

The massive economic engine that is the USA will eventually swamp the Axis. It just remains to be seen how long it takes.

(in reply to Schnaufer)
Post #: 18
RE: Resources - 11/23/2013 10:04:24 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I completely agree.

If the USSR is knocked out of the game, a huge force-pool exits the map.

I'd be rather uncertain of the fate of the game.

I've only played into 1945 a few times, but in one game Me-262's were flying convoy protection in the Sea of Japan, desperately trying to save the Japanese, to no avail.

I should have taken a picture of the 12-5 SS with Rundstedt army group in China relieving the Japanese units to return to the home country, all in a desperate attempt to stave off the American Navy & Marines.

Epic.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to alexvand)
Post #: 19
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