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RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 6:15:36 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

I could care less of what Joan Funk is. Her opinion is no better than anyone else.
warspite1

IS she related to Slamdunkda? Just curious...


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/23/2013 7:15:58 PM >

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Post #: 31
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 6:25:57 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakse

To be on the topic of demos and not whining about women and minorities having opinions, I bought Command Ops due to: a sale and a demo. Just saying.


Well fellow traveler, my wife doesn't share the websites opinions. Are her views about the artistic rendition of some female characters whining about the opinion of women and minorities and somehow irrelevant? Why do you hate women? [/leftist hyperbole]

_____________________________

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(in reply to Jakse)
Post #: 32
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 6:35:04 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakse

To be on the topic of demos and not whining about women and minorities having opinions, I bought Command Ops due to: a sale and a demo. Just saying.


Well fellow traveler, my wife doesn't share the websites opinions. Are her views about the artistic rendition of some female characters whining about the opinion of women and minorities and somehow irrelevant? Why do you hate women? [/leftist hyperbole]


I have to admit that this self-sacrificial attempt to distract from Tim's article by drawing attention to your own horrible opinions has a hint of nobility to it.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 33
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 6:42:24 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

I have to admit that this self-sacrificial attempt to distract from Tim's article by drawing attention to your own horrible opinions has a hint of nobility to it.


And what horrible opinion is that? You can't say can you? lol

Boomers post is relevant, whether you agree with it or not. RPS has lost credibility with their self righteous crusade.



< Message edited by Missouri_Rebel -- 11/23/2013 7:46:00 PM >

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 34
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 7:03:46 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline 		As far as the op topic is concerned, Matrix will follow whatever business path suites them best. I'd personally like demos. Would have saved me a few bucks buying things here I did not care for. But that's just my opinion and since I don't run Matrix, I am powerless to change it. Who else is making these types of games? Not Paradox, nor Battlefront.

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 35
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 7:55:18 PM   
Boomer78


Posts: 333
Joined: 9/6/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakse

To be on the topic of demos and not whining about women and minorities having opinions, I bought Command Ops due to: a sale and a demo. Just saying.


Well fellow traveler, my wife doesn't share the websites opinions. Are her views about the artistic rendition of some female characters whining about the opinion of women and minorities and somehow irrelevant? Why do you hate women? [/leftist hyperbole]


I have to admit that this self-sacrificial attempt to distract from Tim's article by drawing attention to your own horrible opinions has a hint of nobility to it.


My response wasn't intended to derail the topic, only to highlight how often RPS now resorts to rhetorical grandstanding and esoteric distractions... case in point, rather than review games or even demos as a whole, they chose to zero in on Matrix/Slitherine for lack of demo releases. And in an industry where demos have become an obsolete platform, I find it yet another example of RPS' partisan take on just about every single issue they cover outside of their review section... even those sometimes lead the writers to wander down paths of taking parting shots at just about anything and everything that bothers them.


_____________________________

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Post #: 36
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 8:05:51 PM   
samspackman


Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline 		If there was ever a game that needed a demo it's Distant Worlds. It's a great game, but the number 1 recurrent conversation about it is 'I have to pay $100 dollars for a 2D topdown space game?' The best advice you can give is to try the base game for 'only' $30 and see if they like it. If they do, then the expansions add a lot of improvements. This is the sort of game where videos of the game aren't that great a selling point because if you put it up against recent releases like Stardrive or Endless Space, it does look worse. On the other hand, it beats those games into the dust with its gameplay and the mood the game creates. That's not really something you can pick up from an AAR.

A demo wouldn't even need to be that complicated. Just lock the player to a small galaxy with the minimum no. of stars and 2 races and let them go wild. The game will sell itself.

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 37
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 8:40:32 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakse

To be on the topic of demos and not whining about women and minorities having opinions, I bought Command Ops due to: a sale and a demo. Just saying.


Well fellow traveler, my wife doesn't share the websites opinions. Are her views about the artistic rendition of some female characters whining about the opinion of women and minorities and somehow irrelevant? Why do you hate women? [/leftist hyperbole]


I have to admit that this self-sacrificial attempt to distract from Tim's article by drawing attention to your own horrible opinions has a hint of nobility to it.


My response wasn't intended to derail the topic, only to highlight how often RPS now resorts to rhetorical grandstanding and esoteric distractions... case in point, rather than review games or even demos as a whole, they chose to zero in on Matrix/Slitherine for lack of demo releases. And in an industry where demos have become an obsolete platform, I find it yet another example of RPS' partisan take on just about every single issue they cover outside of their review section... even those sometimes lead the writers to wander down paths of taking parting shots at just about anything and everything that bothers them.



I think you are right about the inconsistency between RPS's views on violence and sexism, though I think that makes them just inconsistent rather than being wrong on the sexism point. I also think it's best to view RPS as more a shared blog - which actually puts them a step above the rest in terms of games journalism as you get the professional writing standard of guys with years of writing experience without the burdens of being beholden to corporate interests. I like that RPS is opinionated - even if you disagree with the opinion stated it's usually well researched and argued.

In any case, I don't think it's fair to characterise this article as grandstanding. Tim writes about Slitherine/Matrix lots because his column is about wargames (hell, he's basically the last professional wargaming journalist left standing) but he doesn't write about them out of proportion to the other wargames on the market.

Tim goes out of his way to research and get quotes from multiple parties in order to construct an article around 2 main points:

1. The argument that demos turn off customers so you shouldn't make them only makes sense if you a) think that being a 'frustrating experience' is necessary for a wargame and b) have a sales strategy based around selling to people whom you know will suffer instant regret (with obvious consequences for customer loyalty).

2. The argument that demos are a substantial investment in resources and development time is only true if you've somehow managed to really mess up your development. If you plan for it properly then it's as simple as compiling a new version of the game with just the assets for one short scenario, which takes a matter of hours.

I'm not sure either of those points are really answerable.

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 38
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:19:50 PM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1

I bet any money they have also benefited from sales that would not have happened if a demo was available too - so its swings and roundabouts. I certainly have a couple I can name...

I hope you realize that what you're suggesting is that a lack of demos is okay as far as suckering people into buying games that they would not have otherwise bought if they had any idea what they were getting.

I mean, yeah, I might try harder to like what would normally be an unappealing game if I had already sunk 40+ dollars into it, but the economic equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome does not strike me as a particularly conscientious method of marketing (although the Phillip Veale from the article does suggest that that's exactly what Matrix is aiming to do, to a point).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
It's interesting, considering all the talk of how there are no demos, just how many demos I can find.

Battle Academy, has a demo.
Panzer Corps has a demo.
Conflict of Heroes has a demo.
Unity of Command has a demo.

These are all very definitely wargames, and each one was substantially different from the other in design too.

I gave up after briefly confirming I wasn't imagining it. Yep, they are all demos.

Why is it, people persist in claiming Slitherine Group has no does no demos?

Some games might not have a demo. But to just state matter of factly that there are none, is factually wrong.


Did you read the article? The authors states a number of specific games that do have demos, such as Unity of Command, Achtung Panzer Operating Star, and Command Ops, and calls out specific games that do NOT have demos, such as Command: Modern Air Naval Operations, Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm, Civil War 2, España 1936, Commander: The Great War.

You also have to take into consideration that your list is only 4 games long, compared to the 6 that Tim Stone called out specifically, and that even if we took all the Matrix games that do have demos compared to those that don't, the latter is still a much longer list and tends to include most of the games that do have hefty price tags that people might balk at patronizing.

If Unity of Command were to lack a demo, that doesn't hurt as much when it routinely goes on big sales (thanks to its other publishers). Achtung Panzer has even been included in a few indie bundles, which makes it a very easy purchase even for someone with only a passing interest in the game or someone with very little idea of what the game is like apart from some very broad strokes.

It's when the asking price for something exceeds some AAA titles that the proposition becomes problematic.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 39
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:30:11 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1

I bet any money they have also benefited from sales that would not have happened if a demo was available too - so its swings and roundabouts. I certainly have a couple I can name...

I hope you realize that what you're suggesting is that a lack of demos is okay as far as suckering people into buying games that they would not have otherwise bought if they had any idea what they were getting.

I mean, yeah, I might try harder to like what would normally be an unappealing game if I had already sunk 40+ dollars into it, but the economic equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome does not strike me as a particularly conscientious method of marketing (although the Phillip Veale from the article does suggest that that's exactly what Matrix is aiming to do, to a point).

warspite1

What?? What are you talking about?? No, OF COURSE I am not suggesting that Matrix don't offer demo's for that reason, much less am I suggesting (if they were) that it would be a reasonable business practice... WTF??

Get off your high horse. I simply pointed out, in a throw away line, that no doubt this does happen - its happened to me. But its not some dastardly plot by Matrix...

There are many things in life where we the consumer don't get a demo, a preview or whatever. Most Matrix games fall into that category apparently - big deal

Some people just want an argument......


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to gradenko2k)
Post #: 40
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:37:26 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Some people just want an argument......



I suspect that's the reason for this thread.

Why else bring it up?

Especially using some little known reviewer to bring it up.

I remember the days when computer games came on cassette tapes and protected floppys. There were no demos. Or patches for that matter.

I also remember when game reviewers reviewed the *game* Not bitch about lack of demos or how much they cost.



< Message edited by Aurelian -- 11/23/2013 10:43:46 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:39:51 PM   
Boomer78


Posts: 333
Joined: 9/6/2013
Status: offline 		Guys, it's Saturday. Time for having fun, not fighting. Let's all do what stuffy journalists refuse to do or not allowed to do... and have a few drinks and enjoy ourselves.

And leave the beer tasting rants for the appropriate thread.

_____________________________

"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 42
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:47:46 PM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78
My response wasn't intended to derail the topic, only to highlight how often RPS now resorts to rhetorical grandstanding and esoteric distractions... case in point, rather than review games or even demos as a whole, they chose to zero in on Matrix/Slitherine for lack of demo releases. And in an industry where demos have become an obsolete platform


That the article calls out Matrix/Slitherine for not having demos despite demos themselves being an "old" marketing strategy is only because Matrix/Slitherine is only doing the bare minimum of contemporary marketing strategies either - sure, nobody made a demo for Wargame European Escalation, but then Wargame EE has gone on sale multiple times and has even been part of 5-6 USD indie bundles.

Conversely, you wouldn't need to demo War in the Pacific if the entry fee was much much lower.

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 43
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:53:25 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Some people just want an argument......



I suspect that's the reason for this thread.

Why else bring it up?

Especially using some little known reviewer to bring it up.

I remember the days when computer games came on cassette tapes and protected floppys. There were no demos. Or patches for that matter.

I also remember when game reviewers reviewed the *game* Not bitch about lack of demos or how much they cost.


warspite1

It seems like every 5 minutes there is a "Matrix are the most hideous corporation in the world" threads starting up.....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 44
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 9:57:33 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		@Aurelian

Actually Tim is respected by Slitherine.

As for floppies and cassettes..erm..front cover of magazines would come with a whole host of demos either on cassette or floppy. You have a short memory. Blind fanboyism (Something you could call Hitlers cronies..what where they sycophants?) is as repulsive as blind hatred.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/23/2013 10:58:22 PM >

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 45
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 10:04:21 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

@Aurelian

Actually Tim is respected by Slitherine.

As for floppies and cassettes..erm..front cover of magazines would come with a whole host of demos either on cassette or floppy. You have a short memory. Blind fanboyism (Something you could call Hitlers cronies..what where they sycophants?) is as repulsive as blind hatred.
warspite1

wodin I know WWI is your specialist subject, but I thought you would have known a bit more about WWII

Hitler's cronies weren't Fanboys, they were Brownshirts.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 46
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/23/2013 10:50:53 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78
My response wasn't intended to derail the topic, only to highlight how often RPS now resorts to rhetorical grandstanding and esoteric distractions... case in point, rather than review games or even demos as a whole, they chose to zero in on Matrix/Slitherine for lack of demo releases. And in an industry where demos have become an obsolete platform


That the article calls out Matrix/Slitherine for not having demos despite demos themselves being an "old" marketing strategy is only because Matrix/Slitherine is only doing the bare minimum of contemporary marketing strategies either - sure, nobody made a demo for Wargame European Escalation, but then Wargame EE has gone on sale multiple times and has even been part of 5-6 USD indie bundles.

Conversely, you wouldn't need to demo War in the Pacific if the entry fee was much much lower.


Sounds to me like you should take up knitting!

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to gradenko2k)
Post #: 47
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 12:57:04 AM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline 		Go further back to the time.when you had to type the
Program.yourself and then hoped it ran. If you were
Good at BASIC you could fix things when the.
Inevitable typo.in the article (the TRS CO-CO)
appeared. Many a frustrating nights I spent, but
it.led to a good career.

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 48
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 1:17:16 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

@Aurelian

Actually Tim is respected by Slitherine.

As for floppies and cassettes..erm..front cover of magazines would come with a whole host of demos either on cassette or floppy. You have a short memory. Blind fanboyism (Something you could call Hitlers cronies..what where they sycophants?) is as repulsive as blind hatred.


Not by me. I read reviews to find out about games. Not to hear belly aching about prices of brand new games or lack of demos.


What magazine had the cassette demo of SSI's first game? How about Cosmic Balance? Broadsides? I worked at a place that sold them, and I never saw any mag with demos.

You want to play? "blind fanboyism?" I'll play. Instead of using some pretty unknown person to complain about prices and demos, why don't *you* step up and do it instead of hiding behind some hack? *That* is repulsive.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 11/24/2013 3:48:59 AM >

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Post #: 49
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 1:19:14 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Some people just want an argument......



I suspect that's the reason for this thread.

Why else bring it up?

Especially using some little known reviewer to bring it up.

I remember the days when computer games came on cassette tapes and protected floppys. There were no demos. Or patches for that matter.

I also remember when game reviewers reviewed the *game* Not bitch about lack of demos or how much they cost.


warspite1

It seems like every 5 minutes there is a "Matrix are the most hideous corporation in the world" threads starting up.....


Yes. And yet, the ones who start them are still here. If the way they do business bothered me, I'd take my business elsewhere.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 50
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 2:50:39 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Go further back to the time.when you had to type the
Program.yourself and then hoped it ran. If you were
Good at BASIC you could fix things when the.
Inevitable typo.in the article (the TRS CO-CO)
appeared. Many a frustrating nights I spent, but
it.led to a good career.


Yeah, I bought a book of programs you could type in. Had to do a little conversion to make it work on a C64.



_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 51
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 9:41:55 AM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
You want to play? "blind fanboyism?" I'll play. Instead of using some pretty unknown person to complain about prices and demos, why don't *you* step up and do it instead of hiding behind some hack? *That* is repulsive.


You mean like how the author interviewed two other companies that have both done their own publishing, along with an indie dev that's undergone self-publishing, and all of whom are supporters of demos AND the leveraging of digital distribution sales?

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 52
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 12:07:42 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
You want to play? "blind fanboyism?" I'll play. Instead of using some pretty unknown person to complain about prices and demos, why don't *you* step up and do it instead of hiding behind some hack? *That* is repulsive.


You mean like how the author interviewed two other companies that have both done their own publishing, along with an indie dev that's undergone self-publishing, and all of whom are supporters of demos AND the leveraging of digital distribution sales?


Yeah but Unity of Command isn't frustrating to play so it isn't a real wargame.

(in reply to gradenko2k)
Post #: 53
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 3:56:03 PM   
Kineas


Posts: 100
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: EU
Status: offline 		I find it very annoying that the whole game industry is bashing Matrix Games. It's more like a value conflict, they just can't accept that some companies think differently. It seems RPS can't find better topics other than Matrix pricing or Matrix demos.

Besides, in this age just watch a Let's Play video on youtube, that's 80% of a demo for you. Meanwhile the developer can put the resources into the main game instead of pleasing the gaming communities with demos.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 54
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 5:00:59 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Hey, I want more early access games and free to play until the final version. I like those better than demos. Demos are restrictive these early access games let you play the whole game for as long as you like, but, they sure have a lot of bugs. I could do without those but final versions usally have a lot of bugs too.

(in reply to Kineas)
Post #: 55
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 7:02:43 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
You want to play? "blind fanboyism?" I'll play. Instead of using some pretty unknown person to complain about prices and demos, why don't *you* step up and do it instead of hiding behind some hack? *That* is repulsive.


You mean like how the author interviewed two other companies that have both done their own publishing, along with an indie dev that's undergone self-publishing, and all of whom are supporters of demos AND the leveraging of digital distribution sales?


edit, I see you did, didn't notice it scrolled off my screen.

But either you didn't read it or comprehend it.

The OP doesn't like the policies of this company. But instead of coming out and saying it, he hides behind some guy.

So read it again.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 11/24/2013 8:24:56 PM >

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Post #: 56
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 7:15:14 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
You want to play? "blind fanboyism?" I'll play. Instead of using some pretty unknown person to complain about prices and demos, why don't *you* step up and do it instead of hiding behind some hack? *That* is repulsive.


You mean like how the author interviewed two other companies that have both done their own publishing, along with an indie dev that's undergone self-publishing, and all of whom are supporters of demos AND the leveraging of digital distribution sales?


Quote the whole thing then get back to me.


I love how you complain about being characterised as a 'blind fanboy' but then in your next response literally refuse to look at something yourself.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 57
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 7:31:54 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kineas

I find it very annoying that the whole game industry is bashing Matrix Games. It's more like a value conflict, they just can't accept that some companies think differently. It seems RPS can't find better topics other than Matrix pricing or Matrix demos.




Certainly the OP feels that way. But won't come out on his own and say it. That *is* repulsive.


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If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to Kineas)
Post #: 58
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 7:54:52 PM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		maybe we can move this discussion on to that other polarizing frequently discussed topic "pricing" ....sorry couldn't resist

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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 59
RE: A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone... - 11/24/2013 8:05:18 PM   
Boomer78


Posts: 333
Joined: 9/6/2013
Status: offline 		Hey Budd, I tried to smooth things over and offer everyone a round of drinks about 9 posts ago. Seems sometimes the bar is just meant to be rowdy.

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"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"

(in reply to budd)
Post #: 60
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