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Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 6:52:46 PM

SANTNAZER

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/24/2013
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I do not how to let my ships at sea. I have tried manually to put them to the lower sea boxes but it does not work. I guess i have missed a simple clik but i do not know where?
So, help me................please.........

Post #: 1

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 7:04:06 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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What action have you chosen, where are you in the turn - what phase of the impulse - and what is it you are trying to move?

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Post #: 2

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 7:08:59 PM

SANTNAZER

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Joined: 11/24/2013
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I have choosen Combined action
I am at the return to base and i want to let some ship at sea...............but unfortunetly i fear to have miss to select which ship at the previous phase?

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Post #: 3

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 7:18:14 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SANTNAZER

I have choosen Combined action
I am at the return to base and i want to let some ship at sea...............but unfortunetly i fear to have miss to select which ship at the previous phase?

Before the return to base phase, there is the stay at sea phase. You should allocate the ships which have to stay at sea at that moment.

However, I don't understand the Combined action you're speaking of... In the end of turn phases, there isn't an combined action, so I'm not totally sure of the phase of the game you are in...

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Post #: 4

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 7:24:16 PM

SANTNAZER

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Joined: 11/24/2013
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You are right.......nothing to see!it is the kind of action i choose for the UK for which i have an issue.
So i misssed a phase! What a pity; i have to start again!
Thanks for the information

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Post #: 5

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 8:31:05 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SANTNAZER

You are right.......nothing to see!it is the kind of action i choose for the UK for which i have an issue.
So i misssed a phase! What a pity; i have to start again!
Thanks for the information

Right click on the units you want to stay at sea. See if you can select Sentry.

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Post #: 6

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 8:38:39 PM

SANTNAZER

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Joined: 11/24/2013
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OK it works now
Thanks

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RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 9:02:31 PM

karnack

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/3/2009
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I am controlling the Japanese in a solitaire game at the end of turn, in a storm, and only units below box 4 were able to return to base, the rest are clickable but hovering them over ports foreign and domestic, yields only the big, fat, "don't go there hunny" "X" of impossibility.

The ships moved out from Kure (Hiroshima) and into the China sea only... sat in box 4 and simply want to return to base, ANY base...

Can't go forward, can't go back....

What have I done wrong??? (*weep*) It's only sept/october 1939 and Leonardo DiCaprio is on the deck of my Japanese Flagship! Help!!!

-k

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Post #: 8

RE: Stay at sea - 11/25/2013 10:04:07 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: karnack

I am controlling the Japanese in a solitaire game at the end of turn, in a storm, and only units below box 4 were able to return to base, the rest are clickable but hovering them over ports foreign and domestic, yields only the big, fat, "don't go there hunny" "X" of impossibility.

The ships moved out from Kure (Hiroshima) and into the China sea only... sat in box 4 and simply want to return to base, ANY base...

Can't go forward, can't go back....

What have I done wrong??? (*weep*) It's only sept/october 1939 and Leonardo DiCaprio is on the deck of my Japanese Flagship! Help!!!

-k

How about a screenshot? What you say seems like a bug, but sometimes when we see the map, we can understand the position better. I'd like to see the actual warning message in the Main form that goes with your intended destination port if possible.

Hiroshima is not adjacent to the China Sea so the unit(s) would have to have 6 movement points to return to there. Can they go to Fukuoka?

You can use F11 to see the possible destinations for a selected naval unit. That form's not documented, but it shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

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Post #: 9

RE: Stay at sea - 12/6/2013 2:58:28 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Here is the screenshot you sent to Paulo.

The real question here is "How did you get the naval unit in the 4 section when it only has 4 movement points?" That shouldn't be possible, but clearly you were able to make it happen. Any idea how you achieved that?

Attachment (1)

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Steve

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Post #: 10

RE: Stay at sea - 12/6/2013 6:05:35 PM

ParJ

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Maybe it was set up in that sea area and there's a check for movement points missing in the setup phase? Or that the check is one point off from where it should be?

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Post #: 11

RE: Stay at sea - 12/6/2013 7:02:48 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oto02

Maybe it was set up in that sea area and there's a check for movement points missing in the setup phase? Or that the check is one point off from where it should be?

The other idea I had was that maybe during the Stay At Sea phase he selected a bunch of units in the 4 section box to stay at sea (they all moved down to the 3 section box) and then selected all the units in the 3 section box to NOT stay at sea (causing all of them to move up to the 4 section box). Because the 3 section box contained a mixture of those that started in the 3 section box and some that had just been moved down from the 4 section box, the program might have just shoved them all into the 4 section box, not differentiating between the two groups.

If someone wants to try to reproduce this, I wouldn't say nay.

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Post #: 12

RE: Stay at sea - 12/6/2013 10:30:34 PM

WIF_Killzone

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Joined: 4/30/2009
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I have had the same issue, 4 box, how did it get there...but I don't have the saved game, with that one though I couldn't return it to port but finally was able to drop it down a box by fiddling with the stay at sea settings. I am also struggling with a couple of other naval bugs.

One is have two jap carriers loaded with planes but the planes never participate in battle and don't appear through the whole battle sequence until the carriers they are on get destroyed. At one point the program corrected something displaying a message when loading the game, something to the effect that it was correcting units being transported and named the air units by name. Just loaded the game and it didn't display it this time but they cannot participate. Steve, send me a private email and I will attach game.

The second more pervasive issue is with trying to abort units after naval combat, I can select the units but the program doesn't let me move them into the abort portion of the screen, the program wont let me end that phase and I have to use task manager to abort, reload and rerun the search and naval combat, not nice.

From a user perspective I think there needs to be a few more business rules/warning messages to a) ensure units are loaded back on carriers, and somehow let the user potentially view-change a carrier units status change on board, when right clicking. Granted, I need to read the books-rules :)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 13

RE: Stay at sea - 12/6/2013 11:38:21 PM

lomyrin

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From: San Diego
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On the aborts,there are several iterations to go through before it is all done. There is a separate abort sequence for each round of combat that took place. Ships from different seaboxes require a separate sequence of the abort form etc. Ships that are not eligible to abort together will do so in separate sequences. The game will not let you continue until they have all been done.

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Post #: 14

RE: Stay at sea - 12/7/2013 3:03:22 AM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
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The abort sequence must have been real fun to program.

Player's select where to have naval search and combat at their whim. Then whatever aborts occur may possibly have to flee through sea zones where combat has - or has not - already occurred. Whether or not it has or hasn't - if another intercept of the fleeing units occurs, then that spawns a whole new naval combat sequence - which in turn can spawn more aborts...

Most of the readers here have likely done some programming. Hat's off to Shannon for getting this far!

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Post #: 15

RE: Stay at sea - 12/7/2013 5:19:51 AM

karnack

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Steve,

Sorry for my delayed response but the Matrix Forums "Wait a week after your 10th post" anti-bot rule kept me out for a bit....

I sensed that the issue might be related to movement points and set the screen-shot up as such. I also managed to solve it through stay-at-sea magic but it is a mystery.

Going over the RAW it seems (if I read this correctly) this situation IS possible albeit bizarre (my fault for pushing game boundaries). I agree that coding it must have been a nightmare, so solving this might be more magic. I failed to save the setup, so recreating this is a bit tricky but I am working on it.

-K

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Post #: 16

RE: Stay at sea - 12/7/2013 2:38:06 PM

WIF_Killzone

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A nightmare to program for sure. Please don't get my tone wrong, my intent is to be constructive. With that said, A good program is intuitive, and for the most part thats undoubtedly true here, WIF guides the user through the decision process, and stops him/her from having to back up, or reload because they failed to do something that the code needed from the user a step or two down the road. Its a double edge sword sometimes, but necessary, or it would be a cheat against the rules.

Still, the program should never trap the user, if so, its a bug or at least something for the enhancements list. unfortunately I have had many naval battles trap me, I can select the unit(s) to abort after combat, but it wont let me execute it, I can select them but not use the arrows to move them across the form, it wont let me with either one unit or multiple, no combinations works. I guess I could be doing something wrong but I don't think so, and if I am its certainly not intuitive. Its doubly frustrating because as you know naval battles can vary greatly in their outcome, and redoing it always has a different outcome, sometimes massively so. Oh well, we will track it down, problem is though I cant save the game at that point so it can be debugged and it happens intermittently.

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Post #: 17

RE: Stay at sea - 12/7/2013 3:33:07 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

A nightmare to program for sure. Please don't get my tone wrong, my intent is to be constructive. With that said, A good program is intuitive, and for the most part thats undoubtedly true here, WIF guides the user through the decision process, and stops him/her from having to back up, or reload because they failed to do something that the code needed from the user a step or two down the road. Its a double edge sword sometimes, but necessary, or it would be a cheat against the rules.

Still, the program should never trap the user, if so, its a bug or at least something for the enhancements list. unfortunately I have had many naval battles trap me, I can select the unit(s) to abort after combat, but it wont let me execute it, I can select them but not use the arrows to move them across the form, it wont let me with either one unit or multiple, no combinations works. I guess I could be doing something wrong but I don't think so, and if I am its certainly not intuitive. Its doubly frustrating because as you know naval battles can vary greatly in their outcome, and redoing it always has a different outcome, sometimes massively so. Oh well, we will track it down, problem is though I cant save the game at that point so it can be debugged and it happens intermittently.

You have to first click on the unit in the form, than press the arrow button to move the ship to the right side of the form. Also note, that not all units which have aborted in that combat are able to move together (due to sea box section they are in). If that doesn't do the trick, can you post a screenshot here and state what you are doing? I can't recreate this problem...

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Post #: 18

RE: Stay at sea - 12/7/2013 5:53:46 PM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
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Another thing to keep in mind. The program tries to get you to a sea zone without running the risk of being intercepted. If you are willing to accept that risk (because your path is more direct and you'll end up in a higher box if you make it), then you must designate a sea zone - occupied by enemy units - to move into - with CTRL-left-click (instead of just left click).

Now if you have to abort from a combat, the sea zone you may have no choice but to enter still behaves this way, and CTRL-left-click may still be required.

I wonder if this info is preventing many from successfully doing naval aborts and many of those reports are not bugs. This is in the Manuals under Naval Movement.

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Post #: 19

RE: Stay at sea - 12/7/2013 6:53:58 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

A nightmare to program for sure. Please don't get my tone wrong, my intent is to be constructive. With that said, A good program is intuitive, and for the most part thats undoubtedly true here, WIF guides the user through the decision process, and stops him/her from having to back up, or reload because they failed to do something that the code needed from the user a step or two down the road. Its a double edge sword sometimes, but necessary, or it would be a cheat against the rules.

Still, the program should never trap the user, if so, its a bug or at least something for the enhancements list. unfortunately I have had many naval battles trap me, I can select the unit(s) to abort after combat, but it wont let me execute it, I can select them but not use the arrows to move them across the form, it wont let me with either one unit or multiple, no combinations works. I guess I could be doing something wrong but I don't think so, and if I am its certainly not intuitive. Its doubly frustrating because as you know naval battles can vary greatly in their outcome, and redoing it always has a different outcome, sometimes massively so. Oh well, we will track it down, problem is though I cant save the game at that point so it can be debugged and it happens intermittently.

Let me narrow the focus to the precise problem (as you reported it): "a unit in the left panel does not move over to the right panel when you click on the Arrow button that is suppose to do that."

Assuming that is the case, then please review the list of restrictions on page 60 of Players Manual volume 2.

But if you are unable to move ANY units to the right side (and the current decision maker controls the units on the left side), then this is a bug. Any help you can provide me with how to reproduce it would be greatly appreciated.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 12/7/2013 7:55:07 PM >

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 20

RE: Stay at sea - 12/8/2013 4:20:42 PM

WIF_Killzone

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Thanks, the problem might be between the chair and keyboard, I don't think I tried licking on the flags to ensure it was the current decision maker, not sure. I'll keep an eye out for it.

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Post #: 21

RE: Stay at sea - 12/8/2013 8:21:00 PM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
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Don't you just love typos that pass spell check.

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Post #: 22

RE: Stay at sea - 12/8/2013 9:33:48 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Thanks, the problem might be between the chair and keyboard, I don't think I tried licking on the flags to ensure it was the current decision maker, not sure. I'll keep an eye out for it.

warspite1

Yes I've tried that too but to be honest it makes a slobbery mess of the monitor so I've stopped doing it.

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Post #: 23

RE: Stay at sea - 12/9/2013 4:07:16 PM

WIF_Killzone

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LOL, licking, seriously. Did I actually spell that or did the forum SW use spell correct. I am working on requirements for a new system at work, and I have added spell checking and grammer checking, not sure if grammer checking would have helped on that one.

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Post #: 24

RE: Stay at sea - 12/10/2013 1:09:26 AM

WIF_Killzone

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Joined: 4/30/2009
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Think I found one of the bugs, same issue that haunted me earlier. I have two British 2 point carriers in the Eastern Med both Loaded with 1 (each) 1 point baffins, which I elected to NOT stay at sea. They are both in the three box with a an American sub and American tac. It wont let me return the carriers to base to any port, in same sea zone or elsewhere. I don't think the Americans have anything to with it (for a change, hehe). Anyways, both carriers read "available this phase, 1/2 loaded with Baffin" and the baffins read: "flying loaded on Indomitable" and "flying loaded on Illustrious". Did I forget to land them, perhaps, but I don't think so, either way i'm trapped and have to reload. I suspect if I DONT elect to stay at sea the problem will go away--ill post again if that is not the case. These are the same carriers and planes that did this to me before.

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Post #: 25

RE: Stay at sea - 12/10/2013 2:10:08 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Think I found one of the bugs, same issue that haunted me earlier. I have two British 2 point carriers in the Eastern Med both Loaded with 1 (each) 1 point baffins, which I elected to NOT stay at sea. They are both in the three box with a an American sub and American tac. It wont let me return the carriers to base to any port, in same sea zone or elsewhere. I don't think the Americans have anything to with it (for a change, hehe). Anyways, both carriers read "available this phase, 1/2 loaded with Baffin" and the baffins read: "flying loaded on Indomitable" and "flying loaded on Illustrious". Did I forget to land them, perhaps, but I don't think so, either way i'm trapped and have to reload. I suspect if I DONT elect to stay at sea the problem will go away--ill post again if that is not the case. These are the same carriers and planes that did this to me before.

Can you attach a zipped GAM file to your next post if you can recreate this?

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Post #: 26

RE: Stay at sea - 12/10/2013 11:54:01 AM

WIF_Killzone

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Attached is the Return to Base file that shows the carriers unable to RTB. I will also post the Stay at Sea file in case you need as well.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 27

RE: Stay at sea - 12/10/2013 11:55:00 AM

WIF_Killzone

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Stay at Sea file attached.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 28

RE: Stay at sea - 12/10/2013 11:58:38 AM

WIF_Killzone

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Attached is an earlier version of same game. The two carriers had problems then as well, when opening this game, I get the following message:

"Warning, game damaged (#105). Illustrious is transporting Baffin. But Baffin is NOT being transported. Correction made."

I have no idea how it ended up like this but the program does seem to fix this issue and the carriers could RTB.

Good luck!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 29

RE: Stay at sea - 12/14/2013 6:24:16 PM

WIF_Killzone

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Joined: 4/30/2009
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Any update with this, just happened again, zip attached. Problem seems to be with carrier 1/2 loaded in 3 box that elects not to stay at sea, as with this example in timor sea..

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 30