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RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/13/2013 11:04:39 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

What is the file supposed to represent? The modified scenario? So do I change the extension to ".sce" after I download it?


Oh, sorry ... its the scenario file in a zip, so change the .txt to .zip. I listed all the changes (which includes the ones you recommended earlier) at the bottom of the scenario briefing.

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Post #: 61
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/13/2013 11:15:03 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

It's not as good as D-Day to the Elbe but it's still fun.


Well, with your help and Rick's help I think we've got the D-Day part working pretty well. But as we've noticed, the Siegfried/Rhine part doesn't work well at all, so I've been working on that. Silvanski is pbem'ing the version I made to test that part of the scenario, and even though they didn't do an historical play, I'm hoping they might be able to provide some thoughts. Otherwise, I am working on anchoring the VG Divisions to the Siegfried fortifications (for Elmer) and reducing the Allies supply situation so that the Red Light/Green Light rules affect the 'after breakout' period a little longer.

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Post #: 62
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/13/2013 11:38:16 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's where a Gazelle takes on an Iraqi tank Bn and decimates it to the loss of only one helicopter. This is typical of the combat
results during my turns but during the Iraq turns he bombards me w/ his arty and he suffers through my interdiction which is severe.




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Post #: 63
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/13/2013 11:45:30 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

What is the file supposed to represent? The modified scenario? So do I change the extension to ".sce" after I download it?

Oh, sorry ... its the scenario file in a zip, so change the .txt to .zip. I listed all the changes (which includes the ones you recommended earlier) at the bottom of the scenario briefing.

Thanks heaps. I really appreciate it. The problem is now I'll have to playtest it somewhat. So I'll have to play this again using your
scenario. Or on the other hand I could just truncate this game and start over using your scenario. Which would my readers perfer?
Anybody have an opinion? I guess I'll keep going w/ this game until somebody says something.

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Post #: 64
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/13/2013 11:48:07 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

It's not as good as D-Day to the Elbe but it's still fun.

Well, with your help and Rick's help I think we've got the D-Day part working pretty well. But as we've noticed, the Siegfried/Rhine part doesn't work well at all, so I've been working on that. Silvanski is pbem'ing the version I made to test that part of the scenario, and even though they didn't do an historical play, I'm hoping they might be able to provide some thoughts. Otherwise, I am working on anchoring the VG Divisions to the Siegfried fortifications (for Elmer) and reducing the Allies supply situation so that the Red Light/Green Light rules affect the 'after breakout' period a little longer.

Sounds good.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for all your hard work on the scenario's you touch. You're good for the
entire wargamming hobby community.

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Post #: 65
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 12:07:24 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I want to see what kind of supply situation Steve has provided us w/ so I'm going to start over and just
end this game right here. I'll save the game in case somebody wants to play the rest of it though.

In fact I can just attach it here and you can just change the ".txt" to ".sal" and you should be good to go.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/14/2013 1:08:38 AM >

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Post #: 66
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 1:33:49 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what I'm going to try to duplicate: ( Thanks to Steve Sill for this map )




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Post #: 67
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 2:40:19 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

I want to see what kind of supply situation Steve has provided us ...


I didn't change supply. Even though it is what started this whole thing, I didn't see where you had come to any decision on a change, and I came to my own conclusion that since the Shock goes from 40 to 70 on turn 2 and 100 on turn 3, that the Iraqi's weren't at that much of a disadvantage. Additionally, I noticed that since all the Allied planes were on 'rest' on turn 1, that any Interdiction orders didn't take effect until turn 2, which means the Iraqi's get free movement on turn 1.

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Post #: 68
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 3:26:33 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		OK......I've moved all the units and I'm ready to hit the start attacks button. You can see where I've dropped the airborne dudes at the
road junction w/ the road that heads north. I've got units on their way to that location as we speak. I've got choppers tasked on Iraqi
armor and arty and all the arty that would reach targets w/o moving them are tasked w/ bombardment missions. I think we're ready.




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Post #: 69
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 5:39:01 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I'm flying almost everybody who will fly. I've gotten about 1/2 of the scuds and need to hit them again. Baghdad's airport still has a
fighter or two that need to be snuffed and there's the second wave of attacks on the missile arty and tanks that Iraq owns. This will
be round two according to my careful calculations.




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Post #: 70
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 9:02:25 AM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
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From: niflheim
Status: offline 		Will you go for Baghdad? Or secure Kuwaiti Oilfields first? I don't know the design of the scenario, but if it's historic you shouldn't go for Baghdad but destroy the crap Saddam has put in front of you - well ok..everyone knows this, but is this somehow reflected in the scenario?

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Post #: 71
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 9:13:01 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Will you go for Baghdad?

Um......I've not played this scenario to the end before and so I don't know if 10 turns is sufficient to allow such a thing w/ non-airborne
units. I mean it's a long way to get there. You'd almost HAVE to use the airborne and I'm not sure they have the kind of "staying
power" to take and hold Baghdad by themselves. I donno, I'll have to attempt it to know for sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Or secure Kuwaiti Oilfields first? I don't know the design of the scenario, but if it's historic you shouldn't go for Baghdad but destroy the crap Saddam has put in front of you - well ok..everyone knows this, but is this somehow reflected in the scenario?

You have to secure Kawati City ( I don't remember how to spell it ) by turn 8 or else the Iraqis get some 20 victory points so it's up to
the Coalition player to at least do that. There are terrain objectives ( cities ) that yield points and so it behoves the Coalition player
to get after it and secure those. The problem is that the Coalition is outnumbered and I'm guessing that the Iraqi forces will have to
be delt w/ in a major way to allow the use of garrison troops in the cities, etc.

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Post #: 72
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 9:56:56 AM   
Telumar


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Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Will you go for Baghdad?

Um......I've not played this scenario to the end before and so I don't know if 10 turns is sufficient to allow such a thing w/ non-airborne
units. I mean it's a long way to get there. You'd almost HAVE to use the airborne and I'm not sure they have the kind of "staying
power" to take and hold Baghdad by themselves. I donno, I'll have to attempt it to know for sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Or secure Kuwaiti Oilfields first? I don't know the design of the scenario, but if it's historic you shouldn't go for Baghdad but destroy the crap Saddam has put in front of you - well ok..everyone knows this, but is this somehow reflected in the scenario?

You have to secure Kawati City ( I don't remember how to spell it ) by turn 8 or else the Iraqis get some 20 victory points so it's up to
the Coalition player to at least do that. There are terrain objectives ( cities ) that yield points and so it behoves the Coalition player
to get after it and secure those. The problem is that the Coalition is outnumbered and I'm guessing that the Iraqi forces will have to
be delt w/ in a major way to allow the use of garrison troops in the cities, etc.


Ah..thanks for the info. :)

quote:

The problem is that the Coalition is outnumbered and I'm guessing that the Iraqi forces will have to
be delt w/ in a major way to allow the use of garrison troops in the cities, etc.


If it's anywhere near historic it should a RBC and evap orgy.

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Post #: 73
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 11:55:34 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

... if it's historic you shouldn't go for Baghdad ...


The victory conditions are determined by VP's located within the historical combat area (as seen in the map above). As Mr. Fulkerson said you get penalized for not taking Kuwait Airfield by turn 8 and Kuwait City by turn 9. The penalty seems to be enough to cause a draw (if the Coalition takes all other VP's, otherwise a loss). If the Coalition gets even too close to Baghdad, Egypt and Syria will protest and withdraw their three divisions, plus another VP penalty for the Coalition, plus Bush will get furious and pull the plug.

I think thats it.

(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 74
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 5:12:58 PM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've got about 8 or 9 A-10's that I've been flying in the combat rounds and have gotten a boat-load of AFV's. Here's what the Iraqi's
have lost so far:




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Post #: 75
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 5:19:55 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the moves for both sides in turn 1:




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Post #: 76
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 10:43:35 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		This is a view early in turn two where I'm going through the OOB moving units and I've arrived at the 1st Mech Div. I'm going to get the
UK units to drive north and replace the 1st Mech Division on the right and then use the units of the 1st Mech Div to follow up on the
rest of the 1st Mech Div on the left. I've already RBC'd my way to the rear areas almost and I've run out of placeholders, units to hold a
hex. So the progress has stopped temporarily w/ the 1st Mech Div. Next turn we should be ready to drive again. Meanwhile they will
see about causing losses among the Iraqi's.




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Post #: 77
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/14/2013 11:10:48 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like on the west end or west corner of the front lines. I'm driving the French units on the outside curve of a Hail Mary
Run. I'm going to try to outflank the Iraqi units before they can form another front line to thwart my progress.The 24th Mech Div is trying
to be the inside curve and is running into the Iraqi units before they can retreat, isolating some of them. Mop up needs to occur now.




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Post #: 78
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 1:32:11 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's another view of the area in the previous view except now it's just after the first combat round. You can see how I've flown the
101st into blocking positions so that the Iraqi groups to the west can be isolated and destroyed. The 1st Mech Div is driving north and
hopes to hook up w/ the west driving forces in a noose around some Iraqi equipment if possible.




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Post #: 79
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 1:42:12 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I combined the two above images to make a movie showing the moves of the 24th Mech and the French units in their arc around the
Iraqi positions and it looks like the start of a pretty good surround. The problem is that the Iraqis are moving there units NW and into
my path. I'll have to get there before they do or else take the positions away from them.




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Post #: 80
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 2:39:28 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I flew the 82nd Airborne Division up north and dropped them in such a pattern to give us an unbroken LOC for supply.




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Post #: 81
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 4:51:13 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the moves of both sides for turn 2. You may notice that at the beginning of turn 3 there are several Iraqi units missing from the
map. They were evaporated by the extensive interdiction I put a lot of the airplanes on. I'm kinda wondering what condition my planes
are in now? I'll post something about it.




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Post #: 82
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 5:02:14 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the condition and the mission the squadron had at the end of turn 2. As you can see most of the planes on INT are in pretty
poor shape now. I'm going to have to rest them for a long time probably. I'll let the other half of the total to take over the INT by
resting the tired ones, and of the flyable total left half will go to Combat Support and half will do Interdiction. That way only another 1/4
of them will tire in turn 3 and I'll have 1/8 of them left to do INT w/ in turn 4. Trust me. Most of the Iraqi forces that are going to be
destroyed by INT are probably already destroyed. There's a ton of mop up to do.




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RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 5:58:05 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what the Corner of the front lines looks like now. Busy place. I'm toying w/ the idea of sending the EG's to the north toward
Baghdad instead of something else. I've already got the 82nd up there holding the place down but that neglects their strength which
is mobility. So I need to replace them w/ somebody else. ASAP.




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Post #: 84
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 6:08:29 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		To the right of the EG units in this image we find the Syrian 9th ARM DIV shown here units highlighted, blasing it's way north, isolating
enemy units left and right. Slowly mopping up as they go.

EDIT: I'm posting these pictures as I get to the formation I've just moved. Sometimes before, sometimes after. I'll let you know.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/15/2013 7:10:32 AM >

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Post #: 85
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 6:39:47 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Okay......I've moved the 1st Mech Div into a light screen to enable some time for mop up to their rear. I don't expect any Iraqi units to
survive the move to confront the 1st Mech but hey you never know so I needed some insurance.




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Post #: 86
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 9:01:10 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		OK.......I've moved the 3rd Armoured into blocking positiions further NE and it looks like we may be on schedule after all.




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RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 10:19:32 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the moves made by both sides during turn 3:




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Post #: 88
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 10:34:17 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I moved the 1st Mech Div to much better positions. It looks like they have a pretty good surround started.




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Post #: 89
RE: Desert Storm 91 revised - 12/15/2013 10:52:02 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I moved the 3rd Armoured Div to much better positions. I'm slowly drawing in on the rope I almost have around Kuwait City.




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Post #: 90
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