Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Maths bad, 400 lost out of 700 available is only 57% losses, just a scratch!

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Maybe warm up the B29B on some Chinese ports/HK. Get their experience up and maybe force Erik to disperse his NF, how heavily defended is Shanghai by NF?

You dont have to send them into the Valley of Death, pick away at the edges.

Any rules about 4E attacking ground units??? Anytime you see a stack in open terrain bash it with B29's!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Besides going for his HI/LI, maybe hit his Oil and Refineries. He will still need them to get fuel for his HI and ships.

Kyushu:
Kurume - 10 Oil
Fukuoka - 12 Oil & 10 Refineries

Honshu:
Shimonoseki - 16 Oil & 160 Refineries
Tokuyama - 5 Oil & 5 Refineries

Port Arthur - 120 Refineries
Fushan - 55 Oil

The ones in Japan can be hit by B-24s from the size 6 AFs around Okinawa. The ones in Manchuria can be from the B-29s from the size 8 AF. Give him other bases to worry about. Spread his defenses out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Maths bad, 400 lost out of 700 available is only 57% losses, just a scratch!

Are you sure that is how you count combat losses? The operational strength of the B29 are around 300. So 300 planes have suffered 400 losses. Surely that must account for over 100% combat losses? I just figured that is how you calculate it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Maybe warm up the B29B on some Chinese ports/HK. Get their experience up and maybe force Erik to disperse his NF, how heavily defended is Shanghai by NF?

You dont have to send them into the Valley of Death, pick away at the edges.

Any rules about 4E attacking ground units??? Anytime you see a stack in open terrain bash it with B29's!!!

That is what I have been doing for the last 2 months. I cleaned up what was left after the year long Strat campaign flying from Burma. It has boosted the EXP somewhat but much less than anticipated. 70% of the pilots are still under 50 EXP which worries me quite a lot. But suffering 1-2 losses per mission instead of 30-50 has allowed the squadrons to fill out again which was the plan

4Es are free to attack ground targets but I´m reluctant to use the B29s for that. With a SR of 4 they take AGES to repair. Besides I have the B24s and 2Es I can use for that.

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Apr 05, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami Oshima at 98,64, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Tachibana, Shell hits 1
DD Tsuta, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Kaki, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Chester
CA Chicago, Shell hits 2
DD Satterlee
DD Baldwin
DD Carmick
DD Shubrick
DD Sampson
DD Sims
DD Hammann
DD Russell
DD O'Brien
DD Henley
DMS Boggs
DMS Long
APA Wharton
APA Harris
APA Henry T. Allen
APA J. Franklin Bell
APA W.A. Holbrook
APA Leonard Wood
APA American Legion
APA Fuller
APA Harry Lee
APA U.S. Grant
APA Barnett
APA President Adams
APA President Polk
APA Thomas Jefferson
APA Charles Carroll
APA Arthur Middleton
APA Henrico
APA Lamar
AKA Hydrus
AKA Caswell
AKA Devosa
AKA Circe
AKA Andromeda
AKA Cepheus
AKA Procyon
AKA Lycoming
LCI(M)-803
LCI(M)-804
LCI(R)-72
LCI(R)-73
LCI(R)-74
LCI(R)-224
LCI(R)-225
LCI(R)-226
LCI(R)-230
LCI(R)-337
LCI(R)-338
LCI(R)-339

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Amami Oshima at 98,64, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Ikazuchi
DD Isonami, Shell hits 2
DD Ayanami, Shell hits 15, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Chester
CA Chicago, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Satterlee
DD Baldwin
DD Carmick
DD Shubrick
DD Sampson
DD Sims
DD Hammann
DD Russell
DD O'Brien
DD Henley, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS Boggs
DMS Long
APA Wharton
APA Harris
APA Henry T. Allen
APA J. Franklin Bell
APA W.A. Holbrook, Torpedo hits 1
APA Leonard Wood
APA American Legion
APA Fuller
APA Harry Lee, Shell hits 18, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA U.S. Grant
APA Barnett
APA President Adams
APA President Polk
APA Thomas Jefferson
APA Charles Carroll
APA Arthur Middleton
APA Henrico
APA Lamar, Shell hits 1, on fire
AKA Hydrus
AKA Caswell
AKA Devosa
AKA Circe
AKA Andromeda
AKA Cepheus
AKA Procyon
AKA Lycoming
LCI(M)-803
LCI(M)-804
LCI(R)-72
LCI(R)-73
LCI(R)-74
LCI(R)-224
LCI(R)-225
LCI(R)-226
LCI(R)-230
LCI(R)-337
LCI(R)-338
LCI(R)-339

quote:

Ground combat at Amami Oshima (98,64)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6995 troops, 102 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 253

Defending force 23105 troops, 434 guns, 803 vehicles, Assault Value = 958

Japanese ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Oshima Naval Guard Unit
70th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Amami Oshima Fortress
34th Const Co
189th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
754th Tank Battalion
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
6th Infantry Division
25th Infantry Division
5th USMC Tank Battalion

quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Okinoerabushima (96,65)

15 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LCI(G)-442
LCI(G)-440
LCI(G)-438
LCI(G)-437
LCI(G)-408
LCI(G)-407
LCI(G)-406
LCI(G)-405
LCI(G)-404
LCI(G)-403
LCI(G)-401
LCI(G)-398
LSM(R)-199
LSM(R)-198
LSM(R)-197
LSM(R)-196
LSM(R)-195
LSM(R)-194
LSM(R)-193
LSM(R)-192
APA Winged Arrow
DE Tabberer

Japanese ground losses:
652 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Okinoerabushima (96,65)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3112 troops, 60 guns, 43 vehicles, Assault Value = 109

Defending force 2043 troops, 34 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 46

Allied adjusted assault: 75

Japanese adjusted defense: 11

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Okinoerabushima !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
284 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
190 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Assaulting units:
30th Australian Brigade

Defending units:
14th Naval Guard Unit
52nd JNAF AF Unit

quote:

CVL Mizuho is moving to Nagasaki/Sasebo (102,58).

quote:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Taihoku at 88,63, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E No.60, Shell hits 31, and is sunk
E No.72, Shell hits 13, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bennion
DD Callaghan
DD Cogswell
DD Erben
DD Foote
DD Gregory
DD John Hood
DD Hopewell
DD Johnston
DD Laws
DD Longshaw
DD McCord

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Maths bad, 400 lost out of 700 available is only 57% losses, just a scratch!

Are you sure that is how you count combat losses? The operational strength of the B29 are around 300. So 300 planes have suffered 400 losses. Surely that must account for over 100% combat losses? I just figured that is how you calculate it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Maybe warm up the B29B on some Chinese ports/HK. Get their experience up and maybe force Erik to disperse his NF, how heavily defended is Shanghai by NF?

You dont have to send them into the Valley of Death, pick away at the edges.

Any rules about 4E attacking ground units??? Anytime you see a stack in open terrain bash it with B29's!!!

That is what I have been doing for the last 2 months. I cleaned up what was left after the year long Strat campaign flying from Burma. It has boosted the EXP somewhat but much less than anticipated. 70% of the pilots are still under 50 EXP which worries me quite a lot. But suffering 1-2 losses per mission instead of 30-50 has allowed the squadrons to fill out again which was the plan

4Es are free to attack ground targets but I´m reluctant to use the B29s for that. With a SR of 4 they take AGES to repair. Besides I have the B24s and 2Es I can use for that.

No, your current 300 plus the lost 400 makes a total of 700, from these you have lost 400 or 57%. You can't lose more than 100%.

Otherwise I've been screwing up Accounting for the past 35 years.

quote:

Morning Air attack on 8th Tank Regiment, at 73,57 , near Pakhoi

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 37
B-24J Liberator x 12
B-24J Liberator x 149
B-25D1 Mitchell x 9
B-25G Mitchell x 15
B-25H Mitchell x 33
B-25J1 Mitchell x 70
B-25J11 Mitchell x 39
P-38J Lightning x 24
P-38L Lightning x 39
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 17
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 16
PBJ-1H Mitchell x 3
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 14
PV-1 Ventura x 12

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 230 (82 destroyed, 148 disabled)

quote:



Ground combat at Wuchow (76,57)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 33508 troops, 524 guns, 1851 vehicles, Assault Value = 1743

Defending force 540 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 1337 (Only computer neards get the joke)

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 1337 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Wuchow !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender:
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
739 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 46 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 41 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 5 (5 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 3

Assaulting units:
11th PAVO Regiment
18th Cavalry Regiment
Provisionl Tank Brigade
Guides Cavalry Regiment
3rd Cavalry Regiment
50th Tank Brigade
255th Indian Tank Brigade
19th Motorised Division
Gardner's Horse Regiment
254th Armoured Brigade
17th Motorised Division

Defending units:
68th Ind.Infantry Battalion
60th Construction Battalion
32nd JAAF AF Coy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Military losses are usually calculated against a unit "paper" ToE - thus unit with ToE manpower of 3000 men that was in combat long enough an refilled several times could loose 4000 men - or about 133%...
Same goes for squadron - if its full ToE has 25 planes and had lost 50, its actually 200% losses.

The number you are calculating is total number of losses against total number of available planes in theater. Jock is calculating the number of losses against total unit capacity... :)
Both numbers are correct, but each in its own level... Oh I do love statistics :D

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m just thinking I´ve quite often read about military units suffering over 100% losses? So I wonder if they are calculated based on the strength of the unit rather than total availability?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
I know the US Army posted losses as a % of the TOE, so from ORDER OF BATTLE, US ARMY, ETO

The Per Cent of T/0' figure is merely a measure indicating the
relationship between the authorized strength and the total casualties
for each division. These casualty figures are based solely on data
available on 18 ,May 1945,

1st US Infantry Divison reports
Casualties (Tenttive) ..
Killed.....................3,973
Wounded.............. ... 11,448
Missing.". ..... ,..... . - 951
Captured........ .. ,. . .
Battle Casualties.. ....15003 '
Non-Battle Casualties - 14002
Total Casualties .'.''' 29,005
Percent of T/O Strength .. 205.9

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


Very interesting numbers! Whats "Non battle Casualties" and why does it have a minus sign in front? So does the "missing" column.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

US Infantry Divisions, over the course of the European Campaign, took upwards of 300% losses before the end of the war....some, like the 106th, for instance, were at the higher end of that scale (particularly after being blown apart by the initial German onslaught during BoB).

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Jock, this complaint is true, but it is a very common characteristic of wargames generally.  Very few games I have played over the years have come close to capturing the logistics of warfare with any degree of accuracy.  One can see why.  In a game, we want to play the part of Patton or Zhukov, not some obscure, but essential, logistics commander trying mightily to keep those "fighting" generals in supply....a commodity no army in history goes far without.

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01
Oh, I don't normally say anything about these, but, you are guilty of a very funny Greyjoyism on this or the previous page.  In it you said something like " I want my forces to meat at Wuchow".  The correct word is meet.  You may be aware that meat generally means "animal flesh"....the kind most of us eat.  It can have other contextual meanings  (ie That idea then is the meat of the issue) and slang uses (Come on Meat, throw the ball and I will hit it out of the ballpark.  Here Meat is a slang expression for a pitcher that a batter believes he can hit a homerun off of.  Perhaps a poor example as baseball is not likely Sweden's national pasttime:)).

Anyway.  A small misuse of the word....and now you are to be found in the world renown Greyjoy collection, Admiral's Edition. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I find it absolutely amazing that "non combat" losses are almost as high as the combat losses. I mean how much casualties can you have outside combat. I can certainly illness and accidents taking a toll. But almost 15.000 men lost in a single ID is crazy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

US Infantry Divisions, over the course of the European Campaign, took upwards of 300% losses before the end of the war....some, like the 106th, for instance, were at the higher end of that scale (particularly after being blown apart by the initial German onslaught during BoB).

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Finally Friday night!

Here is tonight's listening. They guys in Nightwish finally found a worthy successor to Tarja. Won´t miss Anette for a second despite her origin (she is Swedish). This girl fits like the hand in the glove!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3brcfttchzA

Tonight drinking is dedicated to Commander Cody! Finally got my case. I don´t know the English words to properly describe the taste. But its VERY good and I will definitively buy another case!

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/193/86256

Thanks for the tip!