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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt"

 
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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 2:53:49 AM   
DQ2004


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With the conquest of the Netherlands, the fate of ships in the construction pool is decided. The German Navy gleefully takes possession of the partly completed battlecruiser van Oranje.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 3:06:05 AM   
brian brian

 

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the Americans just left their Carriers in Pearl with the Japanese fleet off-shore? This game is just the Allies bending over and grabbing their ankles.

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 3:19:44 AM   
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And the Germans achieved strategic surprise with the Brits picking the wrong sea area to patrol? In a solitaire game?

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 3:41:51 AM   
WarHunter


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Normally most USA players forced to a combined while at peace, would have sent both CV's as far away as possible. But if you are role playing complete surprise just to see how it games out, more power to ya.

With the loss of 2 USN CV's, could you tell us how many are in the pipeline for America? How many on Map?

One thing about Axis troops in England, increased production. CW can use this Sealion to build up faster.
Letting the germans land created a propaganda boost for Churchill and his tommy-gun wielding fanatics.

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 4:26:56 AM   
Klydon


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The two CVs are a requirement for a "fleet" at Pearl along with 8 BBs in order for the US to gain a +2 on the die for war declaration. The Langley can't be used for that role btw.

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 4:48:20 AM   
brian brian

 

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that's true. but the USA didn't even attempt to declare war, nor sail the Carriers away, as would happen in any normal game.

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/14/2013 11:33:26 AM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

that's true. but the USA didn't even attempt to declare war, nor sail the Carriers away, as would happen in any normal game.


Agreed. This is too easy for the Japanese. Every US player should put the CV's away at sea somewhere when the Japanese task force is on the doorstep...

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/15/2013 9:16:09 AM   
yvesp


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Well, anyway in the first place I never bought that 40 attack on the Russians.
Seems drawn from a hat: the Russians have enough troops to man their border (unless played incompetently), and matching the garrison ratio means that there are not enough troops to correctly prosecute the French front (except with luck.)

I remember trying such a thing 20 years ago ; it ended up with Germany mirred in a two front war an France still kicking in 42...

Actually, I believe the thread titles tells the story (I wondered before why that title): the basic idea seems to hand a free wheeling game in favor of the axis. Why not ? But it would have been better to tell this as a forewarn that that was the point of this AAR rather that let people guess...

Yves

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/15/2013 3:42:24 PM   
yvesp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k
And the Germans achieved strategic surprise with the Brits picking the wrong sea area to patrol? In a solitaire game?


Especially when the declared purpose is protecting the sea lanes. Usually, a pair of Cruisers, and most importantly, one Nav, are what is needed for the task. Even in the Bay of Biscay. Not a whole carrier fleet. If the German fleet does indeed sortie, then, and only then does the chase begin!

In the North Atlantic, one could send the Hermes. I usually prefer a long range Nav, such as a Sunderland, which are quite versatile and can later be used in other roles.

Yves

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/15/2013 4:09:54 PM   
yvesp


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And there are things to say about the previous Chinese communist attacks.
One in the mountains, in winter, the other mostlybehind rivers. The net result was a loss of 4 units vs a very lucky 3 to the Japanese. But strategically, it especially ensures nothing really happens.

With such a superiority, the communist army should already be flowing in the plains behind the Japanese troops. I know: This exactly happened in my game and finally doomed the Japanese!

However, the situation that we see later is still difficult for the Japanese: They should shortly be losing Taiyuan and possibly Nanyang. The four Japanese army corps indeed risk being surrounded. Such an attempt would at least force the Japanese to take land moves and give the Americans some opportunities.

Impulse 1: move 5-3 one hex NE, move 3-3 militia. If the Japanese stay in place: Impulse 2: unit captures Taiyuan, second unit takes its place, then moves to surround through the mountains, drawing supplies from Taiyuan. In the South, same kind of movement in the direction of Nanyang. The Japanese would be forced back in no time. With the two lost units, this would have been a cakewalk!

I also wonder why the 2-2 partisan unit is not in Shanghaï, or the mountains, or possibly the resource NW of Taiyuan (is it Chinese?): it is just in a place where it can do no harm and can be easily wiped out.

Yves


< Message edited by yvesp -- 12/15/2013 5:20:23 PM >

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/15/2013 7:08:16 PM   
yvesp


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I am now reviewing the past of this thread with a critical eye:


* Not playing with the oil rules is extremely advantageous to the axis units in the early game : fleets can run wild, especially the Italian Navy and the Japanese one, one doesn't care when turning down a HQ or armor, which the Germans have plentiful... Also, the axis has more production : oil resources can be turned to production while the Commonwealth just has nothing to do with its huge production... Well it can lend to France for as long as it holds, and that's all.
* Poland setup looks like the worst I have seen and can be broken by second rate units. I remember a game with a good setup and rain after the first impulse where Poland was still there in the second turn.
* The author himself tells us that the Belgium setup was flawed! Yet, it is critical to buy up time for France!
* Hungarian setup: what does this 2-4 cavalry do in the open ? It should be behind the river, possibly as a reinforcement to hold the capital one more impulse.
* In France, the first German that breaks the French line happens in a two to one hex attack, in rain: none of the attackers get turned down. Possible, yet... The French reaction is what is required by the situation: The units in Lille don't move an inch to close the gap. The units in the East go bravely north. Nobody cares about the road to Paris. The French prefer to destroy a turned down German LND in Belgium rather than save their own turned down fighter. There also was a pointless attack on Strasbourg, and odds and with a weather that I can only guess, but which still succeeded at some losses for the German. France's fall is then inevitable.
* The capture of Egypt by the Italians holds in part on a failed naval combat, where supposedly surprise was achieved by the commonwealth. Combat purpose: disrupt the supply lines. I cannot do this unless I get lucky AND choose a naval air combat to chase away the transports. Surface combat was chosen. There should also be a territorial unit somewhere in Egypt. Where is it hiding and why is it not stacked with Wavell ?
* Attack in Russia: I count a German garrison of about 21. Offensive/Defensive chits should cancel out each others at a ratio of 2 to 1. In May, the Russian production alone from the start of the game should amount to 9 infantry corps on the border, that is 18 points of garrison (it is possible to do better by building garrison units and mechanized units.) The USSR have more than 2 infantry in the west at at start, no ? where are all these troops ? And I do not count the aircrafts that should also be there... Actually, experience shows that Germany has a hard time transfering its units fast enough from west to east before it is too late (i.e. fall)

And so on, and so on...
One such thing is a small blunder ; two make a great blunder. But so many ? This is no coincidence!

So What ?

This author has decided to play a game where the allies are doing every possible blunder, ensuring an easy axis victory. Possibly even some rolls are rigged, but after all I cannot be certain. In any case, it doesn't mater: this is his game. He plays it as he likes and we are free to read or not to read.

The problem is that he doesn't tell ; new players may think a normal game runs this way, and this is plain wrong!

There should have been a clear warning about the intentions of the author.

Yves



< Message edited by yvesp -- 12/15/2013 8:14:43 PM >

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 4:10:14 AM   
DQ2004


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quote:


The problem is that he doesn't tell ; new players may think a normal game runs this way, and this is plain wrong!

There should have been a clear warning about the intentions of the author.

Yves


Wow. I didn't realise disclaimers were necessary.
Looking forward to seeing your AAR and all the explanations and justifications for every move and every decision with every screenshot to illustrate.

I believe the only thing I need to add is the line from the ad; 'No two games of World in Flames play the same'


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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 4:16:07 AM   
DQ2004


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It is May/Jun 1942.
The German navy is now outnumbered more than five to one in the seas around England.
The first impulse will be critical. Do they choose a naval impulse and get reinforcements to England as quick as possible? Do they do an air impulse to ensure that they can maintain supply to Plymouth?
Or do they do a land impulse and launch an attack before the British can fully prepare their defence lines?
The weather makes the decision for them: Storm
Aircraft will be useless, and their surface fleet is so outnumbered that putting to sea will be far too risky.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 4:18:00 AM   
DQ2004


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In Persia, the Italians have been tasked with advancing into Central Asia. Von Bock will be joining them from the Caucasus. The Italians have put a convoy point into the Caspian Sea for the purposes of supply (although it does not seem to have worked, and I don't know why - Balbo should be able to use the rail line to Krasnovodsk, I would have thought. Any ideas?).




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< Message edited by DQ2004 -- 12/16/2013 5:23:27 AM >

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 4:19:57 AM   
DQ2004


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In Russia, Guderian advances towards the Urals, while Rommel waits for a successful Stuka strike to enable the elimination of the pocket.






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< Message edited by DQ2004 -- 12/16/2013 6:17:13 AM >

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 5:30:56 AM   
Majorball68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: yvesp

I am now reviewing the past of this thread with a critical eye:


* Not playing with the oil rules is extremely advantageous to the axis units in the early game : fleets can run wild, especially the Italian Navy and the Japanese one, one doesn't care when turning down a HQ or armor, which the Germans have plentiful... Also, the axis has more production : oil resources can be turned to production while the Commonwealth just has nothing to do with its huge production... Well it can lend to France for as long as it holds, and that's all.
* Poland setup looks like the worst I have seen and can be broken by second rate units. I remember a game with a good setup and rain after the first impulse where Poland was still there in the second turn.
* The author himself tells us that the Belgium setup was flawed! Yet, it is critical to buy up time for France!
* Hungarian setup: what does this 2-4 cavalry do in the open ? It should be behind the river, possibly as a reinforcement to hold the capital one more impulse.
* In France, the first German that breaks the French line happens in a two to one hex attack, in rain: none of the attackers get turned down. Possible, yet... The French reaction is what is required by the situation: The units in Lille don't move an inch to close the gap. The units in the East go bravely north. Nobody cares about the road to Paris. The French prefer to destroy a turned down German LND in Belgium rather than save their own turned down fighter. There also was a pointless attack on Strasbourg, and odds and with a weather that I can only guess, but which still succeeded at some losses for the German. France's fall is then inevitable.
* The capture of Egypt by the Italians holds in part on a failed naval combat, where supposedly surprise was achieved by the commonwealth. Combat purpose: disrupt the supply lines. I cannot do this unless I get lucky AND choose a naval air combat to chase away the transports. Surface combat was chosen. There should also be a territorial unit somewhere in Egypt. Where is it hiding and why is it not stacked with Wavell ?
* Attack in Russia: I count a German garrison of about 21. Offensive/Defensive chits should cancel out each others at a ratio of 2 to 1. In May, the Russian production alone from the start of the game should amount to 9 infantry corps on the border, that is 18 points of garrison (it is possible to do better by building garrison units and mechanized units.) The USSR have more than 2 infantry in the west at at start, no ? where are all these troops ? And I do not count the aircrafts that should also be there... Actually, experience shows that Germany has a hard time transfering its units fast enough from west to east before it is too late (i.e. fall)

And so on, and so on...
One such thing is a small blunder ; two make a great blunder. But so many ? This is no coincidence!

So What ?

This author has decided to play a game where the allies are doing every possible blunder, ensuring an easy axis victory. Possibly even some rolls are rigged, but after all I cannot be certain. In any case, it doesn't mater: this is his game. He plays it as he likes and we are free to read or not to read.

The problem is that he doesn't tell ; new players may think a normal game runs this way, and this is plain wrong!

There should have been a clear warning about the intentions of the author.

Yves



Nothing wrong with your Opinion or the AR :)

Poland defense was terrible, deployment of troops west to attack Belgium and France is helped by inadequate defense of Poland.
Use of low odds attack on Maginot, why risk the losses.
CW defense of Egypt is pathetic for Mar 1940, surely the CW can get a few more units there to hold off the Italians.
All the time gained by the Axis with the poor defense of France and Poland gives them the opportunity to attack Russia who cant seem to meet the garrison quota for defense in 1940.

Everything Axis success that follows from Nov/Dec onwards is artificially created by bad play on behalf of the Allies.

Still interesting reading though, I couldnt take much more after the DOW on Russia in 1940!

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 7:38:05 AM   
CrusssDaddy

 

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I think the silliest aspect of this AAR is the breathless questioning that precedes each post - "Will the British counterattack?" "Can the Russians escape the pocket?" - when it's a foregone conclusion that he will maneuver the Allies into the absolute dumbest strategy available.

"Will I launch the Chinese on an outnumbered attack in blizzard, across a river and into the mountains?!?!? Of course I will!" This is compelling simply for the bizarre psychology on display.

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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 8:56:44 AM   
DQ2004


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With storms raging in the Pacific, the US fleet heads out to tempt battle with the Japanese in the Marshalls. Well, it was either that or be attacked in port again the next impulse.
Neither side finds the other.




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< Message edited by DQ2004 -- 12/16/2013 9:59:31 AM >


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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 8:57:55 AM   
DQ2004


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The US Atlantic fleet heads into the North Sea to prevent any further landings on England.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:00:36 AM   
DQ2004


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In the Solomons the US submarines begin their work. Its a small start




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:02:59 AM   
DQ2004


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The Royal Navy also moves a sizeable force into the North Sea.
They find the single German supply convoy and send it to the bottom.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:08:37 AM   
DQ2004


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In the second Axis impulse the weather clears.
The Luftwaffe heads out to find the Allied ships and prepare the way for the Kriegsmarine, which now looks very small compared to the Allies, with the additional US ships there.
But the Luftwaffe fails to find the Allied force.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:15:18 AM   
DQ2004


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In the Far East, Yamashita attacks Singapore. It is a risky attack, albeit supported by loads of shore bombardment - and it succeeds.
However an equally risky landing in the Philippines meets with disaster - the Japanese lose an INF and an SNLF marine.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:17:39 AM   
DQ2004


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In the Marshalls sea area the Japanese fleet tries to find the US fleet that they missed last impulse. The US fleet is surprised. ...this could hurt




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:20:35 AM   
DQ2004


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Noting the large amount of AA firepower, the Japanese elect to fight it out the way Admiral Tojo did - with a giant surface battle! They use their surprise points to shift the damage columns in their favour and...
...hoping the battleships can take the punishment, the US finds that in fact, they can't. Ouch.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:23:50 AM   
DQ2004


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I might add, apologies for the quality of the screenshots - I had to go back to the laptop (long story not worth explaining, but suffice to say the temporary switch was unavoidable). For some reason the laptop does not take good screenshots, even though I'm doing exactly the same thing as with the PC. Perhaps its my version of Paint? Will try some alternative methods next time.

Anyway, the Japanese use the Yamato and Musashi's extraordinary defence ratings to weather the hits from the US ships. Unfortunately they have to allocate one more destroyed somewhere, so they choose the INS Kirishima.
...it proves not nearly so tough as the super-battleships




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/16/2013 9:26:38 AM   
DQ2004


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In the south-west of England the RAF prepares to get revenge at last, with B-26s, Lancasters and Whitleys all joining to ground strike the out of supply Wehrmacht. Two out of the three succeed. The German invasion of England appears doomed to fail...




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/17/2013 11:51:43 PM   
DQ2004


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The Yankees have arrived in England.




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/17/2013 11:53:44 PM   
DQ2004


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In the North Sea, the German Navy heads for battle. This screen can't quite show all of the forces that may be involved (but it's most of them)




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RE: DQ2004's AAR #2 - "Ouch. ...that hurt" - 12/17/2013 11:54:45 PM   
DQ2004


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The Luftwaffe fails to protect its charges, and loses the air battles. Swordfish torpedo bombers head for the prized German amphibious ships




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