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RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel

 
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RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 6:21:42 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Nov/Dec 1940
End of Turn

I am asked if I want to enforce a peace between Finland and the Soviet Union.

Lets see what happens if I say no.



Noooooo!!!!!!!!!





Give me something to drink!

Keep the beers coming. I can't read this sober.

At least this is a game where the stuff happens.
warspite1

What have I done/not done now General Orm?


Finland had got Stalin to agree with a peace where Finland ceded the Borderlands to USSR. But the Finns decided, proudly, to continue the war versus USSR since they apparently plan to create their own Finnish empire. I suspect that Mannerheim will offer his resignation any day now.

----

Once the war with Finland - USSR has begun, and The Soviet union fail to force a continuance (is that even a word?) of the war, I have yet to see a game where it is to the Axis advantage to deny the peace and it is Germany who gets to decide if there is going to be peace or not.

If Germany force USSR to go to war with Finland then Germany wants the peace. That is the goal for Germany when they deny the claim. To force peace. The Soviet Union want the war to continue so they can conquer Finland.
warspite1

Doesn't it hurt the Soviets to try and bash the Finns? Surely that's a good thing for Germany no?


It might hurt the Soviet a little bit but if, or when, they conquer Finland then Murmansk, and the railroad, is safe. If there is a peace then Finland goes back to become neutral and German can align Finland when they wish to do so. And that hurt a lot more.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 301
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 6:25:33 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Nov/Dec 1940
End of Turn

I am asked if I want to enforce a peace between Finland and the Soviet Union.

Lets see what happens if I say no.



Noooooo!!!!!!!!!





Give me something to drink!

Keep the beers coming. I can't read this sober.

At least this is a game where the stuff happens.
warspite1

What have I done/not done now General Orm?


Finland had got Stalin to agree with a peace where Finland ceded the Borderlands to USSR. But the Finns decided, proudly, to continue the war versus USSR since they apparently plan to create their own Finnish empire. I suspect that Mannerheim will offer his resignation any day now.

----

Once the war with Finland - USSR has begun, and The Soviet union fail to force a continuance (is that even a word?) of the war, I have yet to see a game where it is to the Axis advantage to deny the peace and it is Germany who gets to decide if there is going to be peace or not.

If Germany force USSR to go to war with Finland then Germany wants the peace. That is the goal for Germany when they deny the claim. To force peace. The Soviet Union want the war to continue so they can conquer Finland.
warspite1

Doesn't it hurt the Soviets to try and bash the Finns? Surely that's a good thing for Germany no?


It might hurt the Soviet a little bit but if, or when, they conquer Finland then Murmansk, and the railroad, is safe. If there is a peace then Finland goes back to become neutral and German can align Finland when they wish to do so. And that hurt a lot more.
warspite1

Okay then, I will broker peace at the end of this turn.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 302
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 6:34:11 PM   
Orm


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quote:

Okay then, I will broker peace at the end of this turn.

I doubt that Stalin will oblige and make the same mistake twice.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 303
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 6:35:33 PM   
Courtenay


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Status: offline 		The reason the Germans want to enforce a peace is that the Russians can wreck the Finns when the Finns can't get German help. If the Russians try to seize the borderlands and have a peace enforced on them, they have lost two US entry chits for very, very little gain. The whole point of the operation from the Russian point of view is to knock out Finland entirely. In this version of WiF, it is easy to ensure that peace can not be enforced; just grab any hex of Finland that is not in the borderlands. In the original WiF, before the Scandinavian map, it was hard to prevent an enforced peace, as one could not go around the Finns, one had to go through them. I have always felt that the enforced peace rule should have been changed when the map changed, but it never was.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 304
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 8:41:55 PM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
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Status: offline 		But doesn't it need a pretty big commitment from the Soviets to break the Finns? What if they get unlucky with the dice and/or caught out with too many units in the north when the Germans break the NS pact?

Just a bit confused as to what is considered best practice for a good Soviet and good German player.

Interesting stuff!

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 305
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 8:51:08 PM   
Courtenay


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Status: offline 		The Finnish borderlands are not worth very much; often the Russians don't even defend them. Either conquer Finland or leave it alone. If you plan to conquer it, you want to do it during the summer of 40, when the weather is good and the Germans are tied up in France.

Yes, there is a risk, but there is reward to. Note that in my AAR game, I set up for the attack, but cancelled the plan, because I did not want to take the US entry hit.

For the Germans I would always enforce peace -- there is no reason to fight the Russians at poor odds when the Finns are so useful later.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

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Post #: 306
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/24/2013 10:36:24 PM   
brian brian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Jan/Feb 1941
Impulse: 7

The turn moves on - the Germans align Bulgaria and the Japanese align Siam.




It would have been better to align these countries the turn before. In 1940, the US Entry chits are at their lowest possible values...



re: Finland - I think it is worth it to go to war with Finland even if you don't plan to go all the way to Helsinki. A smart German player will just land a pair of MIL or GARR in Finland as many times as necessary to make it a hard slog for the Russians.

But if they do go to war in Finland, they are rewarded with a front pushed far enough back that the rail line to Murmansk should be usable the first two impulses the Germans are in Russia - so 2 factories can be railed to Murmansk, the warm-water port. This can be important during a powerful 1941 Barbarossa attack.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 307
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 3:54:40 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 1

Right, what can the French do with the initiative? Rather than sit around and wait for the inevitable, I could try and get rid of the Germans west of Paris. Given that I can get the Blitz table, and so long as I do not use the Paris units, there is little downside - at best I can hurt the Germans, at worst I can lose units that will be "Vichyed" soon enough anyway...

But first, the Royal Navy are going to have to sort themselves out.

I need to get cleverer with my build program. The CW need TRS!! and Carrier Air!! So much to remember...

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/26/2013 5:07:35 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 308
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 4:15:52 AM   
warspite1


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Impulse: 1

The order goes out from Uncle Joe - "I want to be dining in Helsinki tonight - don't let me down, or its no more Mr Nice Guy".

Four bombers try and ground strike Viipuri. The Finnish air force cannot reach . Will that be a costly error? Not too bad - just one unit was disorganised






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 309
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 4:30:02 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 1

Two attacks this impulse.

West of Paris the Germans bring in four bombers and two fighters to bring the odds down to 1:1. The French save their aircraft for the capital, having got the Germans to use up precious aircraft on this sideshow.

At Viipuri there are no aircraft that can amend the odds. The Finnish battle tales place first. It's a 3:2 +1 with the Soviets choosing the Blitz table. They have not remembered to bring any divisions to the battle - that could be costly....

...its a 4 (5) and each side loses a unit and the Soviets are disorganised.

EDIT: This does not look right - I think the Soviet should have lost an ARM unit as they used the Blitz table.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/26/2013 5:32:25 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 310
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 4:47:52 AM   
warspite1


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Impulse: 1

Anyways, reported that possible bug and its onto France now. This is a 3:2 +1. Damn says von Bock, I didn't realise there was a +1 if using Arm in clear terrain in Fine weather...

Billotte, giving directions from Paris, orders the Blitz table to be used.....

...its an 8 (9) the defender loses one unit and the other must retreat. The French are disorganised but otherwise unharmed.

OH FOR $%^& SAKE!!!! WHAT AM I DOING?? I have just realised I double-clicked on the German unit when ordering the attack. As a result I have included the units in Paris in the attack.. They are all now disorganised What a $%^&wit...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/26/2013 5:48:25 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 311
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 5:00:04 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 3

Adolf is still laughing over the French mistake when the news reaches him that Mussolini has made an equally big balls up. He clicked on declare war on France and then clicked the "OK - done" button...rather than the "Declare War" button

If I may paraphrase the great A.A Milne for a second "I am a wargamer of Very Little Brain, and long rulebooks Bother Me"
A. A. Milne






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 312
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 5:26:04 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
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Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 3

There will be two attacks for the Axis this turn. There could have been a third but the Japanese abort their attack on Nanning due to a lack of divisions to take losses...

In Paris the Germans are taking no chances. They bring in three Stukas to crank up the odds. The French respond with everything they have, and the Luftwaffe intercept with everything they have.

The air battle is the most one sided yet. The Luftwaffe has a 7.2:4.7 advantage...

Round 1

13 (AC) The French have to choose a Stuka to clear through
10 (AC) The French get their bomber through

Round 2

11 (DC) The Germans get another bomber cleared through
7 (AA) The front French fighter is aborted

Round 3

19! (DX PX) The Germans lose another fighter and pilot.....
20 (AX PX) But this time they get immediate revenge, shooting down the MB152 and killing the French pilot

Round 4

14 (No Effect)
11 (No Effect)

Round 5

11 (DC) The third Stuka is cleared through to the French capital
15 (DX) The D510 us shot down (the pilot survives)

And that ends the air battle over Paris. All bombers made it through.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 313
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 5:30:55 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 3

The first combat to be completed is that in China. Its a 3:1 no modifier with the Chinese getting the choice of table thanks to the mountains. No prizes for guessing what they choose....

...its a 7. All Japanese are disorganised. The Chinese lose a unit and the remaining defender is shattered. The Japanese do not convert.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 314
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 5:34:52 AM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
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Impulse: 3

Back to war-torn Paris now...

The odds are 5:1 +1 on the Assault table. Will it be third time lucky for the Germans, or will lady luck smile on the French?...

....its an 8 (9) the French are finis.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 315
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 6:23:19 AM   
Finarfïn


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Status: offline 		Is the "unwanted" participation of force from Paris change the result? (Don't have the table right now)

Fin

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Post #: 316
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 8:06:01 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

Is the "unwanted" participation of force from Paris change the result? (Don't have the table right now)

Fin
warspite1

I do not recall. The attack would have happened anyway though as there was no downside.

There have been soooo many instances of mucking up like this - and will continue to be because the game is just a monster and there is so much to think about the whole time. Just in that last turn I moved the Finns and then, during the German movement, at one point I pressed undo all. I then forgot to move the Finns again….

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Finarfïn)
Post #: 317
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 9:23:26 AM   
warspite1


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Impulse: 5

Back to the Allies. The CW cannot evacuate the continent as the TRS are out and about doing other things.

With most of the German fighters disorganised, the British decide to try and disorganise the German units at Boulogne and Lille.

For this purpose the trusty Hampden and Blenheim squadrons are brought into play. Two German units in Boulogne are disorganised.

The British Army decide to go on the attack!

Firstly, three R-class and two Queen Elizabeth-class battleships are ordered to provide naval gunfire support against the German positions.

The British gunfire is accurate, causing the Germans much discomfort by taking the combat level up to 2:1.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 318
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 9:27:59 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
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Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 5

Gort tries to add HQ Support, but there are not enough CW bombers to up the odds any further. With no fighter support of their own, the Luftwaffe do not fly.

The odds are 2:1 +3 (2 disorganised + ARM)....

....but its only a 2 (5)! The Germans lose just a division and the British are all disorganised. That could have really hurt the Germans...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 319
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 9:35:48 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
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Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 6

The turn advances just one and Mussolini decides to declare war (and this time he presses the right button!).

The Reserves are called out. The weather is Fine everywhere (except the Arctic) where there is a 100% chance of precipitation.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 320
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 9:47:44 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 6

The Regia Aeronautica fly to Toulon to attack the French Fleet. The CW has too many naval and air assets in the Western Mediterranean for the RM to consider sailing however.

The Italians get 10 surprise points, and use all of these to decrease the AA effectiveness of the French gunners.

The French do no damage as a result.

The aircraft sink the old battleship Lorraine, disorganise Richelieu, Dunkerque and the cruiser Suffren, and 1/2 disorganise Strasbourg and the cruiser Algerie.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 321
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 9:59:28 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 6

The Italians, flushed with achieving something of military value, decide to try and ground strike the French cavalry unit on the Swiss/French/Italian border.

The attack was successful!






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 322
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 10:08:44 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 6

The Elite Alpine Mountain Corps, led by the Julia Division, pour over the border. They put themselves out of supply in doing so, but importantly, render the French cavalry out of supply. As they are already disorganised, this means the French unit is reduced to a 1 strength.

There will be two attacks - against the Communist Partisan in northern China, and against the French cavalry.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/26/2013 11:09:37 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 323
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 10:15:24 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 6

Neither the Japanese nor Italians use HQ Support for their attacks. The Chinese attack is first; 7:1 no modifiers (Assault).

Wow.. the Japanese throw a 1.. The Partisan is destroyed but the attacker loses a unit too and all are disorganised..






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 324
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 10:25:55 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 6

Meanwhile in France, the odds are 5:1 +1 with choice of table being Assault...

...its a 9 (10) the cavalry is destroyed for no loss.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/26/2013 11:27:02 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 325
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 10:34:37 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Mar/Apr 1941
Impulse: 7

And the turn continues, although the weather takes a distinctly bad turn with storm and rain almost everywhere (except the North Monsoon and South Temperate).

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 326
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 11:22:18 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

Is the "unwanted" participation of force from Paris change the result? (Don't have the table right now)

Fin

No. The roll was high enough so the disruption of the Paris units did not change things.

Without the disruption the odds would have been 5-1 -1 (instead of 5-1 +1) and you need a unmodified result of 4 or higher to capture the hex and 6 or more to do so undisrupted. The actual combat die roll was a 8 so the result would then have been a 7 and that is more than enough for Germany to celebrate in Paris.


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Finarfïn)
Post #: 327
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 11:31:43 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Nice operation with the MTN crossing the alps putting the French unit out of supply.

And nice port strike as well.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 328
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 3:49:15 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		I would point out that the reduction in French AA fire was totally unnecessary as you had your surprise impulse to work with and I don't think the defender gets anything in terms of intercept or AA fire. (Could be mistaken on that and it certainly would not be the first time).

The one thing the French must be careful of in a extended war with the Germans is they need to make sure the Germans are enticed to go Vichey. That means NOT defending France to the last Frenchman. When the end is near, the French need to make sure such places well away from the front have at least a garrison. (Lyons, Toulouse and Marseilles). If all those locations have no units and incoming units are sort of light, the Germans are going to be tempted to go for the full conquest.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 329
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse II The Sequel - 12/26/2013 3:55:42 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Surprised nations AA fire at half strength so I suppose the reduction was necessary.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 330
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