The Big Number

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

The Big Number

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> The Big Number

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

The Big Number - 1/1/2014 3:50:10 AM

Fintilgin

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline

Currently the 'big number' on counters in SC is the number of 'steps' or 'hitpoints' that the unit has. While this is a useful thing to know, I'd be a lot happier if this was changed to some sort of more abstract 'combat value' or strength.

Like, a panzer unit with max morale/tech/steps etc would max out at 100, and an infantry unit with no supply/morale/etc would be a 1. That would make it a lot more intuitive to gauge the strength of enemy units. Right now two units can both be a '10' and have wildly different combat abilities. The only real way to get a sense of their strength is to 'mock attack', by mousing over the units and seeing the projected casualties.

But, if I launched Barbarosa and most of my units were 50s and 60s, and the frontline Soviets were around 10 or 12, it would be much more obvious where I should attack. And when some 40 strength Guard units showed up, they'd be more distinctly a threat, rather then just being another '10'.

Ideally you'd have a defense value too, a bit like the two numbers in War in the East.

Maybe you could give us the ability to swap what the counters displayed with a key like 'tab'? You could play in 'combat strength' mode when you're launching attacks and the current 'steps' mode when you're looking to heal units up.

Post #: 1

RE: The Big Number - 1/2/2014 5:13:38 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

The problem is that all those wildly different combat values that help make the game more realistic regarding combat between two different unit types also make simple displays a challenge. For example, the tank unit tank attack value versus tank units is different than its soft attack value versus soft units. So how should attack value be displayed, tank attack for tank units and soft attack for soft units, or the average value, or what? This "problem" has been around for 20 years now since Panzer General showed up...

I got around this in my Advanced Third Reich mod by sticking with 2D military unit icons and using the boardgame counters. So those German 4-6 armor units show up as 4-6 armor units but with the strength number displayed. So a 4-6 at strength 5 is really a 2-6, etc. Easy. But that's too "old school" for many players. Oh well.

(in reply to Fintilgin)

Post #: 2

RE: The Big Number - 1/2/2014 8:40:49 PM

Fintilgin

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline

My gut feeling would be to take the average, because the variance is fairly small (no units with 2 soft and 27 hard attack) and it's just one part of a much bigger equation.

For example, one (totally arbitrary & random) possible equation for 'Combat Strength' might look like:
(Average of Hard & Soft attack) x (morale %) x (readiness % x 1.5) x (techlevel) x (experience level/2) x (commanding HQ skill level/3)

Then whatever the minimum and maximum possible results come out to be are normalized on a 1-100 scale, and that final number is what is actually shown on the counter.

It wouldn't be a 'perfect' number, and you'd still have to notice if units were entrenched or had hard/soft factors that were hidden a bit by 'combat strength', but in my book some system like this would still be worlds better then the system we have now where everything is a '10' and you have to do all sorts of mouse over 'mock' attacks to get a sense of relative strengths.

(in reply to pzgndr)

Post #: 3

RE: The Big Number - 1/4/2014 8:40:30 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

You can have an overall effectiveness value for the unit. Like the Matrix "War in Russia" 1980s game and the current "War in the East" combines these factors. So if you convert it in SC terms

moral * effectiveness * (combat type) * strength.

So an infantry army attacking another infantry unit would be something like...

80% * 80% * SA(3) * 10 = 19.2 value or so.

But at the same time you would need several boxes. SA, SD, TA, TD to get exact values.

Another method would be strength effectiveness.... which would simply be --- moral * effectiveness * strength = X.

effectiveness is their supply level of course.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Fintilgin)

Post #: 4

RE: The Big Number - 1/5/2014 3:38:09 AM

Fintilgin

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline

Honestly, almost anything would be more informative then just the number of steps, like we have now.

The exact equation I leave as an exercise for the designers.