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Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF?

 
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Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/17/2014 7:51:19 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		This one was infuriating.

In my game against Bullwinkle, we're fighting up at Adak. I sent a Fast Transport TF of CL Tama, some DDs, TBs, and PB Marus to go rescue some troops on Adak before they would be completely wiped out in assaults. On April 9, the TF was almost completely loaded - "Current Load: 4727 of 4730". So I set their destination to somewhere else, as I don't feel like losing ships to divebombers and float planes based at Adak, and one day in a hostile base hex is already one day too many. I figure that, come TF loading/unloading phase, they'll either fill up those last 3 points of capacity, or they won't, and they'll get away nice and safe.

To my bitter surprise, they don't. They're still there during the entire day, and I lose some ships. At first I think maybe it's because they were unloading for some reason, but they never unloaded back to Adak. I load up the turn on April 10, and on mouse-over the TF still shows "Loading troops". I literally growled "what the flying f---." So, for giggles, I clicked 'Unload troops'. When I did so, "Unloading..." never appeared like it usually did. So I think, "OK, next thing." I make a new Fast Transport TF and transfer all the fully-loaded ships over. Now, on mouse-over, it doesn't say "Loading troops". Presumably this means they'll leave the hex now, because, you know, that would be awesome if they did what I told them to do yesterday.

So my thinking is that this is some kind of bug?


Attached is a ZIP the pre-turn save on my end. If you need the file's password, PM me!

Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/17/2014 8:01:38 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		And here is the post-replay save file in a ZIP. I haven't changed anything after the replay in this one.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/17/2014 9:02:03 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		No idea on the bug question, but did you possibly combine TFs (2) and end up with some non-FT type ships in the loading one?

Edit: the other thing to check is if everything still on the beach was too big for the remaining space on whatever ship type had space left. Allied FT TFs hate to deal with motorized supply for example.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 1/17/2014 10:03:59 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 3
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/17/2014 9:06:18 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

No idea on the bug question, but did you possibly combine TFs (2) and end up with some non-FT type ships in the loading one?

Edit: the other thing to check is if everything still on the beach was too big for the remaining space on whatever ship type had space left. Allied FT TFs hate to deal with motorized supply for example.


Nope, it's the same TF I've had going for a while.

And yes, not everything would fit on the FT TF, which is why I checked it before the turn. Only the mouseover showed 'Loading troops' - the TF info screen in the pre-turn save doesn't have a 'Cancel load troops' option, which is normally there if you want to stop loading a unit and you can proceed onwards with a fragment. I assume this is because the TF is full.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 4
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/17/2014 9:15:28 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		OK. Hmm.

I blame rounding error. Always blame rounding error.

I'm sure Michael will see whatever it is.

_____________________________

The Moose

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Post #: 5
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/17/2014 9:48:48 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I've never seen behavior like that. If I'd been paying more attention I would've fiddled with changing it all over into a new TF yesterday, when I noticed that 'Cancel load' wasn't there. So I'm thinking it might be a bug.


Or if there's some detail that's making the ships behave like that and it's WAD, maybe we can find out what it is.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 6
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 4:45:51 AM   
travicl1

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline 		I was having the exact same problems Lokasenna is having in my own PBEM. Random fast transports TF's getting wiped out because they weren't unloading quick enough. Finally I had one survive and was able to take a look and I think I might have an idea on what's going on. Occasionally one ship in the fast transport TF's is getting severely overloaded. I remember a CL that had something like 120 squads/ guns on board. The pic below is of an APD that is overloaded, all the other ships in the TF were loaded normal. If Michael wants a save I could probably dig it up.



Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 7
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 4:47:40 AM   
travicl1

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline 		And here's another pic of what's actually loaded on the APD.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Travix -- 1/18/2014 5:58:50 AM >

(in reply to travicl1)
Post #: 8
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 7:31:58 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I have had the same problem with ordinary transport TFs from time to time. The get "stuck" and you have to manually cancel unloading and off they go.

(in reply to travicl1)
Post #: 9
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 7:45:01 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I was having problems with them moving out after loading up, however.

I've run the next turn and can confirm that, once I forced the "loading troops..." to disappear from the mouse-over (despite not being in the TF info screen) by transferring them all into a new TF that they shipped out. Granted, the LCUs on the island were wiped out as expected this turn as well, but I'm pretty sure that didn't have anything to do with it. I previously used FT TFs to evacuate most of a unit before it was wiped out via ground assault, and at the same location and with the same ships, to boot!


Stinkin' bug cost me CL Tama and her mines .

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 10
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 8:05:43 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Sorry, I meant cancel loading and not unloading!

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 4:18:12 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Yes, here is what I mean.

Why isn't there a 'Cancel load troops'? I always do Cancel Load when I want a TF to move out that day.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 1/18/2014 5:20:24 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 12
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 4:26:20 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		The "Unload Cargo/Troops" button may need to be clicked to get the message you want. Sometimes, I have to cycle through it to get the message up top to change. I've seen the yellow "Unload Cargo" in the middle be changed to "Do Not Unload" and the button in the lower right still say the wrong thing. Sometimes, I'll save the turn, exit, come to forum, and then reload the turn just to double check. Its my OCD-ness getting the best of me.

_____________________________


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Post #: 13
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 4:49:13 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Here's what happened when I clicked 'Unload troops', because that occurred to me as well. Note there's no option to Cancel Unloading. After I did this I reloaded the turn and kept it as it was before, with the phantom loading, because I figured they'd at least move that way since they were 99.94% full already... I didn't want to unload the troops to their doom!


Transferring them all to a new TF does a "cold cancel" of the loading. But that shouldn't be necessary, there should be a button to cancel if indeed they're still loading. To my eyes, it looks like they got stuck in a routine somewhere where they were neither loading nor unloading. Like a bit/toggle in the Task Force's code struct wasn't set properly or something.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 14
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 6:46:14 PM   
travicl1

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, here is what I mean.

Why isn't there a 'Cancel load troops'? I always do Cancel Load when I want a TF to move out that day.



Clicking the "unload cargo" button and changing it to "Do not unload" has always worked for me when I'm trying to cancel any unwanted unloading.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 15
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 7:14:58 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		That's the reverse, though. I wanted them to cancel loading so that they'd sail off into the sunset.

(in reply to travicl1)
Post #: 16
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/18/2014 7:42:45 PM   
travicl1

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

That's the reverse, though. I wanted them to cancel loading so that they'd sail off into the sunset.


Oops, missed that. Did you try pressing the Load troops button and changing the status of the unit to "loading stopped"? That works at friendly bases but I'm not certain if that works at enemy bases.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 17
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/19/2014 1:59:05 PM   
KHawk

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		My guess is that a “Fast Transport” mission is an Amphib mission and that it requires a percentage of supplies have to be loaded with the troops. Since supplies are load last you would be breaking the supply requirement part of the rule if you halted the loading early.

Just a guess.

KHawk

(in reply to travicl1)
Post #: 18
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 1/19/2014 3:50:36 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KHawk

My guess is that a “Fast Transport” mission is an Amphib mission and that it requires a percentage of supplies have to be loaded with the troops. Since supplies are load last you would be breaking the supply requirement part of the rule if you halted the loading early.

Just a guess.

KHawk


Frequently FT TFs will go without supplies, as the Troops will take up all of the Cargo space on the TF.

(in reply to KHawk)
Post #: 19
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 2/9/2014 12:41:33 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

This one was infuriating.

In my game against Bullwinkle, we're fighting up at Adak. I sent a Fast Transport TF of CL Tama, some DDs, TBs, and PB Marus to go rescue some troops on Adak before they would be completely wiped out in assaults. On April 9, the TF was almost completely loaded - "Current Load: 4727 of 4730". So I set their destination to somewhere else, as I don't feel like losing ships to divebombers and float planes based at Adak, and one day in a hostile base hex is already one day too many. I figure that, come TF loading/unloading phase, they'll either fill up those last 3 points of capacity, or they won't, and they'll get away nice and safe.

To my bitter surprise, they don't. They're still there during the entire day, and I lose some ships. At first I think maybe it's because they were unloading for some reason, but they never unloaded back to Adak. I load up the turn on April 10, and on mouse-over the TF still shows "Loading troops". I literally growled "what the flying f---." So, for giggles, I clicked 'Unload troops'. When I did so, "Unloading..." never appeared like it usually did. So I think, "OK, next thing." I make a new Fast Transport TF and transfer all the fully-loaded ships over. Now, on mouse-over, it doesn't say "Loading troops". Presumably this means they'll leave the hex now, because, you know, that would be awesome if they did what I told them to do yesterday.

So my thinking is that this is some kind of bug?


Attached is a ZIP the pre-turn save on my end. If you need the file's password, PM me!

Did you have the save before the Fast TF arrived in hex?

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 20
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 2/9/2014 4:35:43 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Something is not saying that the TF has finished loading. Thus the 'loading' comment on TF all the time. At one point I found it was 4737 of 4730. Trying to determine why not registering 'loaded'.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 21
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 2/9/2014 4:47:17 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

This one was infuriating.

In my game against Bullwinkle, we're fighting up at Adak. I sent a Fast Transport TF of CL Tama, some DDs, TBs, and PB Marus to go rescue some troops on Adak before they would be completely wiped out in assaults. On April 9, the TF was almost completely loaded - "Current Load: 4727 of 4730". So I set their destination to somewhere else, as I don't feel like losing ships to divebombers and float planes based at Adak, and one day in a hostile base hex is already one day too many. I figure that, come TF loading/unloading phase, they'll either fill up those last 3 points of capacity, or they won't, and they'll get away nice and safe.

To my bitter surprise, they don't. They're still there during the entire day, and I lose some ships. At first I think maybe it's because they were unloading for some reason, but they never unloaded back to Adak. I load up the turn on April 10, and on mouse-over the TF still shows "Loading troops". I literally growled "what the flying f---." So, for giggles, I clicked 'Unload troops'. When I did so, "Unloading..." never appeared like it usually did. So I think, "OK, next thing." I make a new Fast Transport TF and transfer all the fully-loaded ships over. Now, on mouse-over, it doesn't say "Loading troops". Presumably this means they'll leave the hex now, because, you know, that would be awesome if they did what I told them to do yesterday.

So my thinking is that this is some kind of bug?


Attached is a ZIP the pre-turn save on my end. If you need the file's password, PM me!

Did you have the save before the Fast TF arrived in hex?


I can dig one up if necessary, it will be in my email somewhere. The TF was completely empty before it entered the hex.


Thanks for looking into this!!

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 22
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 2/9/2014 5:48:14 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		The trouble is the damaged ship in the TF. It is not accepting troops for a load, but doesn't get set to 'finished loading'. Thus the whole TF wants to stay till it finishes.
Have added extra check in that case so it finished 'loading' if in a 'troop only' mission (which is how FT TF starts out)

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 23
RE: Dear MichaelM: Bugged Fast Transport TF? - 2/9/2014 6:40:14 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The trouble is the damaged ship in the TF. It is not accepting troops for a load, but doesn't get set to 'finished loading'. Thus the whole TF wants to stay till it finishes.
Have added extra check in that case so it finished 'loading' if in a 'troop only' mission (which is how FT TF starts out)


Cool, thanks! I was wondering it was one ship in particular.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 24
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