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RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter colors

 
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RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/8/2014 2:40:27 PM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		So I just downloaded. Something looked weird when I compared them to your old maps.

It seems that your images have become 'blurry'...maybe in compression?



< Message edited by MikeAP -- 2/8/2014 3:46:30 PM >

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 31
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/8/2014 4:34:07 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Make all your images png files and not jpg files.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 3/20/2014 4:53:10 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 32
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/8/2014 8:35:47 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

William,

Very cool work. The maps are important tool for planning. James Sterrett runs off these table top size ones when we do Staff exercises at Origins.

How are you placing bridges? Are you adding them after the fact or as a routing from processing?


Thanks for your comments.
The bridges were manually annotated. Since then, I've started scanning the .png file for roads, and I should probably be able to automatically detect the bridges given the road connections, obstacle ids and water hexes.

William

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 33
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/8/2014 8:48:17 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeAP
It seems that your images have become 'blurry'...maybe in compression?


Correct. The hex backgrounds, vegetation and (to a lesser extent) roads are blurred now, by design, not because of compression - the labels' font edges are still sharp. See the first post for changes since Dec 31.
The blurring is meant to be easier on the eye when zooming in, and it hides a few jaggies due to a geometry bug.

I want to get rid of that bug. Ideally, I would be rendering the maps at 200% of the target size, and scale them down in a final step - that would keep the detail sharp without looking too pixelated.

Anyway, let me know why you (don't) like it. I might have been spending too much time writing an map render tool instead of looking at the maps in game...

William

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 34
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/9/2014 2:02:30 AM   
MikeAP

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		To be honest, I don't play much, and wasn't aware of that bug. However, your logic makes sense.

On that note, I wish we had actual map zoom in game.

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 35
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/9/2014 2:12:19 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Mike, we do have map zoom in game. The bug he has is in the graphics package he is using to rebuild the maps from our FP9 files. Without some form of anti-aliasing with the various graphic elements you can end up with pixelated edges (jaggies). We had similar issues initially with our Mid-East cell based map maker until Rob did a number of post processing blurs to soften edges and better blend various art pieces.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 36
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/19/2014 11:27:14 PM   
RichyRambo

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		Outstanding. Can't wait to try them out.

(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 37
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/20/2014 10:30:53 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I just uploaded an updated set of maps. They match patch 2.03 (which didn't change anything to the existing maps except some tiny detail in CA 2 Red Storm, AFAIK), provide a cleaner hex outline (more organic, less "hexy"), and fix issues with streams running along the map border.

Here is an example of the updated look.

See first post in this thread for download links. Enjoy!

William




Attachment (1)

(in reply to RichyRambo)
Post #: 38
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/20/2014 10:34:39 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Looking really good! Thanks for posting! You should put up a link to your website too.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 39
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/21/2014 6:24:55 AM   
eddie01

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Looking really good! Thanks for posting! You should put up a link to your website too.


He did, but you kind of have to watch closely for it,lol Check the first post in this thread, its right under the second map.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 40
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/21/2014 10:25:39 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Thanks Eddie, missed that.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to eddie01)
Post #: 41
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/26/2014 1:44:14 PM   
jds1978


Posts: 114
Joined: 10/1/2010
Status: offline 		Nice Job! Hat tip to OP

These are now my 'go to' default map settings

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 42
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 2/26/2014 3:52:13 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		Nicely done. I like the looks of the grid lines, gives them a militaristic look to them. One thing I would say is that I think you over did the small individual type trees.

The thing I noticed about living over there was that there were 3 types of terrain. Built up area, heavy wooded areas, and farmers fields.

I attached a pic I took over an area that was referred to as "Little Switzerland" due to its hilly terrain. This was in Bavaria and if I can find more I will post them. Note that where there are steep inclines or hills, there are trees, and outside of towns and denser forests there are farmer fields with few if any individual trees.

The Germans farm every bit of land possible. There are very few trees outside of the towns and forests. By the way, the majority of forests in between towns are replants with very little undergrowth. The larger forests like the Black or Heurtgen Forests as well as the bigger mountain regions are still mostly natural. It's weird walking into one of their smaller forests and see all the tress "dress right dress" and no undergrowth.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sabre21 -- 2/26/2014 5:01:55 PM >

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(in reply to MikeAP)
Post #: 43
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/19/2014 9:28:18 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Another update of all maps, smoothing the river banks (not the stream banks), the hill sides and roads. This side-by-side comparison shows the change (for an area of the Red Storm 9 map). It's subtle but makes the maps easier to read.



See first post in this thread for download links. Enjoy!

William

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 44
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/19/2014 10:24:34 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21
[...] One thing I would say is that I think you over did the small individual type trees.

The thing I noticed about living over there was that there were 3 types of terrain. Built up area, heavy wooded areas, and farmers fields.

I attached a pic I took over an area that was referred to as "Little Switzerland" due to its hilly terrain. This was in Bavaria and if I can find more I will post them. Note that where there are steep inclines or hills, there are trees, and outside of towns and denser forests there are farmer fields with few if any individual trees.

The Germans farm every bit of land possible. There are very few trees outside of the towns and forests. [...]


Great comment. I'm also not happy with the randomly placed individual trees. However, I was less happy with the empty "clear" aka "mixed" hexes, whose look didn't match their meaning the game: these empty "mixed" hexes are harder to see through (4 hindrance vs 2), and to move through (5 hindrance vs 3) than fields. It didn't feel right to put arty units or HQ units in empty "mixed" hexes instead of "fields" hexes, although this is the right thing to do.

Now the roads are positioned right (see post above), I like to try filling the "mixed" hexes in a more appropriate way. For "mixed" hexes containing roads (and most of them do), lining up these roads with trees and the occasional building probably looks better (as in the bottom of your Bavaria photo).
For other types of "mixed" hexes on hills, putting in small clumps of trees might be an improvement.
I'm not sure what to do with the remaining mixed hexes (probably representing breweries, landfills, power stations, automotive test tracks - I can check on Google maps),

William
p.s. Sabre21, thanks for your contributions to this forum. Your posts have added greatly to my understanding of helicopter tactics, and to me enjoying the game!

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 45
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/20/2014 12:45:20 PM   
Emx77


Posts: 419
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline 		W1ll14m, you did excellent job. I find your maps more informative and better looking than stock maps. However, I have two questions/suggestions:

1. Can you provide non-blurred version of your maps? IMO, non-blurred version would be more aesthetically appealing.
2. Why have you used darker shade for lower elevations? It's kind of unusual. On most maps, higher ground is represented by darker shade and valleys by light green. Is it possible to revert this shading?

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 46
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/20/2014 3:57:46 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I had more terrain on my maps but was told they looked too busy. So, I cut some terrain back out of them.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 47
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/21/2014 11:39:56 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic
1. Can you provide non-blurred version of your maps? IMO, non-blurred version would be more aesthetically appealing.
2. Why have you used darker shade for lower elevations? It's kind of unusual. On most maps, higher ground is represented by darker shade and valleys by light green. Is it possible to revert this shading?


Hi Emir. I guess we have different ideas about elevation coding. But yes, I can do light to dark maps, and yes, I could disable blurring.
You'll find an example below. Since darker-is-higher doesn't click for me, please let me know what works best for you:
- inverted elevation colors (and some tweaks to tree shade colors), on the left side
- Plodder-inspired color palette, on the right side, also without trees in the "mixed" terrain cells. Obviously not as nice as Plodder's handcrafted maps, but the elevation of forests hexes should be easier to read.
The inset in the bottom left corner shows the stairstep jaggies that result from not blurring.

William




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 48
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/22/2014 12:06:35 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		I like those new elevation colors.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 49
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/22/2014 12:22:38 AM   
Plodder


Posts: 1001
Joined: 7/28/2003
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

I like those new elevation colors.


+1. Those new colours look great. The trees still need a bit of work. I have a bunch of top-down tree pictures in png format that I use to make my maps with. They are all of single trees so if you want them for your program let me know, and I'll post them here for you.

_____________________________

Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 50
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/22/2014 12:31:10 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I too like the new colours..maybe tone down the tree colour and add some different shades

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https://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

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Post #: 51
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/22/2014 10:09:53 AM   
jds1978


Posts: 114
Joined: 10/1/2010
Status: offline 		New colors are fantastic.....I'm with W1ll14m on the elevation colors. Lighter = Higher in elevation seems normal for my brain

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 52
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/22/2014 10:31:52 AM   
TAKODA

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline 		W1ll14m, thank you for sharing your maps they are great. I was wondering if it would be possible to use the same tree pictures as the ones used in the 'Flashpoint Germany' maps?

(in reply to jds1978)
Post #: 53
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/23/2014 3:17:50 PM   
Emx77


Posts: 419
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline 		W1ll14m, as majority here, I also think new elevation colors are better. Also, I prefer your original color palette to Plodder-inspired palette (although, river color looks better on Plodder map). Stairstep jaggies are tolerable.

(in reply to TAKODA)
Post #: 54
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/24/2014 10:45:13 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I've added a set of 27 'Summer inverted' maps that use lighter-is-higher elevation colors. I still struggle grasping them, but they look pretty with the darker green of the hills matching the forest.
In addition, tweaks to the Summer elevation colors (now all deriving from green), more detailed trees (highlights and shades), and a map scale in the bottom left corner. The image below shows the changes.

The first post has the download link for the maps.

Have a good fight!
William





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 55
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/25/2014 1:16:25 PM   
jds1978


Posts: 114
Joined: 10/1/2010
Status: offline 		These keep getting better and better

Any way you could make the version in your 3/21/2014 post available? I really want the olive green style map (perhaps easier on my eyes) with your original elevation codes (lighter = higher in elevation)

Thanks in advance

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 56
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/25/2014 3:54:56 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		Great Maps! Do you think you may release a set with the lower saturated look on the right picture of your post # 48?

(in reply to jds1978)
Post #: 57
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/25/2014 10:56:19 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		jds1978, z1812: I would offer a set of maps with these elevation colors if I had the web space for them. A theme map pack is another 200MB, and bound to grow once Mad Russian or the community create more maps. But I don't have that space.
When Matrix Games starts hosting mods / scenarios, I'll happily upload all map themes to their web space. Until then, I'm not going to bother with annoying file hosters, or creating another personal Dropbox / Google Drive / Skydrive account to host the files.

The other thing that would help would be the game accepting .jpg maps, which (in my case) are about 60% smaller than (optimized for size) .pngs.

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 58
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/26/2014 12:46:07 AM   
jds1978


Posts: 114
Joined: 10/1/2010
Status: offline 		No problem. Thanks for the reply and your work so far

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 59
RE: All 27 Red Storm maps re-done, in summer and winter... - 3/26/2014 7:36:07 AM   
pekische

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 8/20/2012
From: Czech republic
Status: offline 		I would be interested in maps from post 48 also ;)

(in reply to jds1978)
Post #: 60
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