Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

During submarine combat, the enemy first shoots at the subs (so you first have to decide if you want to reduce the effectiveness of the escorts, using surprise points). After losses are taken by the SUB's, you should be able to use remaining surprise points to increase losses on the convoys.

So that comes later...

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
11.5.10 Submarine combat
In a submarine combat, each side’s SUBs (not any other units) will fight the opposing side’s included non-SUB units.

Example: It is fine weather in 1942 and Heinz has gained 10 surprise points in a naval combat. He has spent 4 of them to choose a submarine combat. He has 2 SUBs included, totaling 8 attack factors.

Jay has 10 convoy points, an SCS and a 2 air-to-sea factor NAV included. Jay attacks with his 6 ASW factors (2 for the SCS, 2 for the NAV and 2 for the convoys because it is 1942) against 2 enemy “ships”. He gets 1 ‘D’ result and 3 ‘A’ results. Heinz rolls against his SUBs’ defence factors to determine the outcome.

Then he attacks the convoys with 8 attack factors against 2 ships (remember, the escorts don’t count). He gets 2 ‘D’ and 3 ‘A’ results.

Jay rolls a 5 for the first damage die against a convoy. One of the convoys is damaged. Heinz spends 3 surprise points to roll the second damage die against the same convoy. Jay rolls a 3, sinking it.

Heinz spends his last 3 surprise points to inflict the first ‘A’ result on the SCS. Jay rolls against the SCS unit’s defence factors to see if it suffers the result. The second ‘A’ result is applied successfully against the remaining convoy.

The last ‘A’ result cannot be applied because there are no convoys that can suffer further results and Heinz has run out of surprise points.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
ASW units in naval combat
ASW units have a special pre-fire attack against included enemy SUBs (only) in each surface or submarine round of naval combat as follows.

Total the attack factors of all included ASW units. Add in all included ASW air-to-sea factors (modified by weather ~ see 8.2.3) on that side as well. All other included units on that side are ignored for the pre-fire attack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

Hello,

I have missed a thing or it's a bug but I have 2 naval combats with subs surprising CW CP where i can't use surprise points to increase sub's result (but i can decrease results against them).

I haven't got a save but i think it can be easily reproductible.

Fin

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf

Spending surprise points

4pts Avoid combat
4pts Choose combat type

3pts Select enemy target (per target)

2pts Increase your column on naval combat chart (per column)
2pts Decrease opponent’s column (per column)
2pts Increase your air-to-air combat value (per point)
2pts Decrease opponent’s air to air combat value (per point)
2pts Increase your anti-aircraft fire (per column)
2pts Decrease opponent’s anti-aircraft fire (per column)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
11.5.10 Submarine combat

The non-SUB side uses these factors to attack the SUBs. You do this in the same way as a surface naval combat except that you use the ASW row of the naval combat chart and only count the SUBs as targets.

The SUBs also attack in the same way as a surface naval combat except that they use the SUB row of the naval combat chart and only the convoy points count as ships (1 ship per 5 convoy points).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

Hello,

I'm sorry i'm not good in english so maybe i don't understand in the right way.

1. When i have to manage a suface naval combat i can, if i have enought surprise point choose to increase my result or decrease opponent result, even a mix between both is possible with enough SP.

2. As far as i understand RAC, Sub combat have to be resolved the same way. Separate ASW>SUB and then SUB>CP seems to be part of CoiF option.
But once again i can be wrong.

Also i know this is only a minor trouble (i'm not even sure it is a bug or a "bad" coding of the RAC), i understand some other majors trouble have to be corrected before this will be checked but i prefere to report things i feel strange or broken.

Fin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

As you can see only decrease ennemy's.. is available, as someone previously said increase your naval... is available after your results are implemented.

But as i see it now, the values are not changed. Despite SUB have to manage results against them before to make their shots they strike at full power (for exemple even if they suffer an abort they return fire with full power on CP). But it's strange as surface combat have a different way to manage (you can increase or decrease the same step or sub step).

So i don't think it's a bug but more a missunderstanding (once again from me maybe) or something else, like something for a future implementation of Coif i don't known.
I understand whatever this is a bug or not it's not a P1.

I post here the saved game

quote:

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

I have been disturbed by the difference between surface combat and sub combat.
I apologize for my mistake.

In Surface combat the two options are available at the same time, same step.
In a sub combat, as you can see the choose are only available in different "step"
but the final result is, in my point of view, correct with simultaneous (and unmodified by other side combat result) fires.

But i think it's not the better way (just my opinion no offense for anyone), even with Coif future implementation, because
it too close to naval air combat in which we can spend SP in each step (A2A, flak, A2S, etc...)
with a consequence for the next step (less bombers, less air factors to press attack,etc...).

And once again it's in the worst case a minor burden. A good or experienced player won't be disturbed like i was.

Fin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Alright, you mean what Paul explained? Didn't understand that..