Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to celendrials reform bug?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> Tech Support >> Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to celendrials reform bug?

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Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to celen... - 3/4/2014 2:56:19 PM

Kathi51!

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Joined: 11/6/2013
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Dear All,

I have attached a game which freezes after two error warnings at the beginning of SU production step.

The first error warning comes out of the blue. If you nevertheless continue the application the reform divisions form is available ( but sort of looking not quite right ).

Then it�s over:-(

I�ve tried everything I can think of.

Thanks

Jan

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kathi51! -- 3/5/2014 4:47:11 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related cele... - 3/4/2014 7:18:47 PM

celebrindal

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline

Does the reform box have 3 or more different types of divs, and is the unit to select box empty? If so that's what we were having and have validated as a bug.

_____________________________

Order is nothing more than Chaos on a bad day.

Dave

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 2

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/5/2014 3:45:53 PM

Kathi51!

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline

Reform box has 3 divs - two being the same with the unit to select box empty. If it�s not the same it�s quite similar.

Best regards

Jan

(in reply to celebrindal)

Post #: 3

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/6/2014 3:11:03 PM

celebrindal

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/26/2005
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Nope sounds exacltly the same..

Ask AxelNL to look at it for you he was able to validate that was the issue and it was in fact a bug.

_____________________________

Order is nothing more than Chaos on a bad day.

Dave

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 4

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/6/2014 5:05:17 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebrindal

Nope sounds exacltly the same..

Ask AxelNL to look at it for you he was able to validate that was the issue and it was in fact a bug.

As far as I can tell, it is the same. The game MadExepted directly after loading, so I could not remove some divs from the breakdown pool to test if that would solve the situation.

I think this bug appears when there are more than 2 div's in the breakdown pool, from one nation, which can be reformed. As you have 8 Russian div's in that pool.......

So until this is fixed folks need to expect the following:

- if you play with unlimited breakdown,
- if you have 3 or more Div casualties in one turn
- than you will probably run into this progress-blocking bug.

The only workaround possible in this case is to limit your Div casualties - and that is exactly why you want to use them.

Nasty bug - will update my report that the trigger is not three different Div's, but more than two Div's of any kind in the breakdown pool. Can't promise anything when this will be fixed, I'm afraid. For those of you having invested a lot of time in a particular scenario that is really a bummer.

(in reply to celebrindal)

Post #: 5

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/6/2014 8:35:03 PM

Kathi51!

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/6/2013
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First of all - thanks!

If your diagnosis is correct unlimited breakdown is pretty much an unusable rule because as you said " that is exactly why you want to use them ".

Looks like all those without maximum frustration tolerance are in for a lot of "no optional rules Babarossa".

But then there we have a catch 22...

Cheers

Jan

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 6

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/7/2014 2:39:07 AM

celebrindal

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline

well you just can't lose more than 2 divs a turn until they fix it ;-)

_____________________________

Order is nothing more than Chaos on a bad day.

Dave

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 7

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/7/2014 8:57:18 AM

Kathi51!

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Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline

Ah at last - the perfect defense strategy:-)

(in reply to celebrindal)

Post #: 8

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/7/2014 1:37:34 PM

Kathi51!

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline

I just took a look the destroyed pool in an autosave from the last impulse of the turn - looking for some kind of workaround. It shows that the germans had lost 4 Div, the russians 8. As I didn�t have any trouble with the german reform step, the hypothesis that you catch the bug loosing 3+Div might need further attention.

I�ll happily send the file if required.

Best regards

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 9

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/7/2014 1:57:58 PM

celebrindal

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/26/2005
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We redid our turn and kept the germans to only 2 divs lost. That allowed us to proceed.

_____________________________

Order is nothing more than Chaos on a bad day.

Dave

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 10

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/7/2014 4:09:58 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kathi51!

I just took a look the destroyed pool in an autosave from the last impulse of the turn - looking for some kind of workaround. It shows that the germans had lost 4 Div, the russians 8. As I didn�t have any trouble with the german reform step, the hypothesis that you catch the bug loosing 3+Div might need further attention.

I�ll happily send the file if required.

Best regards

yes please! Save just before the German reform step.

Edit: Might be my original theory is still right as there were 3 types of russian divs there. How many types of german div were in the 4?
If that is true - than the workaround becomes a bit looser. Just not let more than 2 different types move into the breakdown pool. To be tested.

tnx

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/7/2014 6:07:54 PM >

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 11

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/7/2014 8:10:58 PM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
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Maybe an odd number of divisions is a bad thing...

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Paul

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 12

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 6:36:01 AM

Kathi51!

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline

I�ve attached the required file.

I furthermore revisited the destroyed pool and noticed that I miscounted the destroyed german DIVs.

Correctly it is 5 German DIVs:

2-3
2-4
1-4 mot
2-5 mot
1-5 mot

and 8 Russian DIVs:

2-3 x 2
1-3 x 2
1-4 mot x 4

I would send a screenshot, but not being accustomed to windows - my PC is for the sole purpose of wiffing - I frankly couldn�t work out how;-/

Best regards

Jan

Attachment (1)

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 13

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 9:23:29 AM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kathi51!

I�ve attached the required file.

I furthermore revisited the destroyed pool and noticed that I miscounted the destroyed german DIVs.

Correctly it is 5 German DIVs:

2-3
2-4
1-4 mot
2-5 mot
1-5 mot

and 8 Russian DIVs:

2-3 x 2
1-3 x 2
1-4 mot x 4

I would send a screenshot, but not being accustomed to windows - my PC is for the sole purpose of wiffing - I frankly couldn�t work out how;-/

Best regards

Jan

I'll have a look. For easy screenshotting I recommend Greenshot, which can be downloaded for free. When installed the PrntScrn button works as you would always wanted it to work. You can also tell Greenshot to load it immediatly in Paint. Than save in jpg which you can attach to the post,

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 14

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 9:26:34 AM

Kathi51!

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Joined: 11/6/2013
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I have now gone back to the last impulse and killed off all infantry and mot DIVs in suicide attacks, leaving only an arm and an engineer DIV in the hope it might allow me to somewhat continue the game.

Didn�t work - exactly the same error:-(

Thanks for the tip.

Jan

< Message edited by Kathi51! -- 3/8/2014 10:28:01 AM >

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 15

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 9:30:41 AM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kathi51!

I have now gone back to the last impulse and killed off all infantry and mot DIVs in suicide attacks, leaving only an arm and an engineer DIV in the hope it might allow me to somewhat continue the game.

Didn�t work - exactly the same error:-(

Thanks for the tip.

Jan

I have a hunch that it might be several of the same type. Loading your gamesave now.

(in reply to Kathi51!)

Post #: 16

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 9:41:55 AM

AxelNL

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From: The Netherlands
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I experimented with your gamesave. Without the 2 1x3 russian divs it works.

I will continue experimenting. Current theory is now:

- if you play with unlimited breakdown,
- if you have 3 or more Div type casualties in one turn
- and if you have more than one div per div type in the breakdownpool, you will encounter this bug.

So you can have multiple div losses, as long as there are not more than one of the same type (as in the German example)

To be confirmed. But this makes the workaround a bit easier to reach in a Barbarossa turn.

Edit: I revisited Celendrial's gamesave and he had only one of each three types

. This becomes a puzzle. Maybe something to do with the corpses in the breakdown pool. I will list the current facts in the next post.

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/8/2014 10:47:29 AM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 17

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 9:51:15 AM

AxelNL

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This is the screenshot of Celebrindal's gamesave. I just noticed a difference in the status of the 5x3 corps. It is on "sentry", while the other two have "Done moving".

Attachment (1)

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 18

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 9:56:29 AM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

This is the screenshot of Celebrindal's gamesave. I just noticed a difference in the status of the 5x3 corps. It is on "sentry", while the other two have "Done moving".

I tried removing the 5x3 from the breakdown pool, but that did not help. I originally removed the 5x3 and two of the divs. That worked.

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/8/2014 11:03:54 AM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 19

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 10:00:33 AM

AxelNL

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From: The Netherlands
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This is the breakdown pool of Kathi51!. There are corpses "done moving" and "available this phase". No Sentry status, so that was a dead-end test.
As stated before: when I removed the 1x3 divs the game could continue.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/8/2014 11:02:37 AM >

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RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 10:01:11 AM

AxelNL

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Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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So what do we have, following listing is from the breakdown pools of 2 different gamesaves:

3 german divs of different types + 3 corps = crash
5 german divs of different types + 2? corps = fine (I cannot look in the pools as the gamesave start reforming rightaway)
8 russian divs of three different types + 10 corps = crash
6 russian divs of two different types + 10 corps = fine

We had an original bug here which appeared as soon as 2 divs were in this pool. All the gamesaves under those conditions worked at my side after that fix. Cerebrindal used that to go back in his game and created progress.

I will have to experiment further.

For now the workaround recommendation is to limit the different types of divs to two. But as you can see in the post above, 5 different types of only one each will work as well.

So maybe it is only when there are exactly three different types? I will try this out.
(you are getting an inside peek into the betatest routine here. My only extra tool here is the debug tool, which could use some debugging as well)

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/8/2014 11:16:27 AM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

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RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 10:20:32 AM

AxelNL

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First test to confirm theory: removed 5 of the 8 russian divs so that exact one of each type is left = crash

Edit:

The debug tool does not let me add divs to the breakdown pool

Can I get a gamesave in the last russian land movement phase of this game, please? I'll add a different type of div to the map and will beat it into the breakdown pool the old fashioned way.

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/8/2014 11:26:50 AM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 22

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 10:31:30 AM

AxelNL

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From: The Netherlands
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Updating the journal:

Following listing is from the breakdown pools of 2 different gamesaves:

3 german divs of 3 different types + 3 corps = crash
5 german divs of 5 different types + 2? corps = fine (I cannot look in the pools as the gamesave start reforming rightaway)
8 russian divs of three different types + 10 corps = crash
6 russian divs of two different types + 10 corps = fine
3 russian divs of 3 different types + 10 corps = crash

We had an original bug here which appeared as soon as 2 divs were in this pool. All the gamesaves under those conditions worked at my side after that fix. Cerebrindal used that to go back in his game and created progress.

Could it be the amount of corpses to be reformed? That I can test. I will limit them to two.

(in reply to AxelNL)

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RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/8/2014 10:42:43 AM

AxelNL

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Result of the test: with 1, 2 or 3 corpses left it crashed as well. There were strangely green borders around some of the corpses. In the "one left" scenario they were gone, but also crash. This might have nothing to do with this bug, but a result of using the debug tool.

Updating the journal:

Following listing is from the breakdown pools of 2 different gamesaves:

3 german divs of 3 different types + 3 corps = crash
5 german divs of 5 different types + 2? corps = fine (I cannot look in the pools as the gamesave start reforming rightaway)
8 russian divs of 3 different types + 1,2,3 or 10 corps = crash
6 russian divs of 2 different types + 10 corps = fine
3 russian divs of 3 different types + 10 corps = crash

We had an original bug here which appeared as soon as 2 divs were in this pool. All the gamesaves under those conditions worked at my side after that fix. Cerebrindal used that to go back in his game and created progress.

I need to go back to my normal life - will come back to test further, hopefully with another gamesave to add a different div type.
Closing the debug process journal.

< Message edited by AxelNL -- 3/8/2014 11:56:46 AM >

(in reply to AxelNL)

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RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/15/2014 3:20:30 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

Result of the test: with 1, 2 or 3 corpses left it crashed as well. There were strangely green borders around some of the corpses. In the "one left" scenario they were gone, but also crash. This might have nothing to do with this bug, but a result of using the debug tool.

Updating the journal:

Following listing is from the breakdown pools of 2 different gamesaves:

3 german divs of 3 different types + 3 corps = crash
5 german divs of 5 different types + 2? corps = fine (I cannot look in the pools as the gamesave start reforming rightaway)
8 russian divs of 3 different types + 1,2,3 or 10 corps = crash
6 russian divs of 2 different types + 10 corps = fine
3 russian divs of 3 different types + 10 corps = crash

We had an original bug here which appeared as soon as 2 divs were in this pool. All the gamesaves under those conditions worked at my side after that fix. Cerebrindal used that to go back in his game and created progress.

I need to go back to my normal life - will come back to test further, hopefully with another gamesave to add a different div type.
Closing the debug process journal.

Lex,

Thank you for all your work on this. I'll fix this for 1.1.7.0 (I haven't investigated this yet but the saved games should enable me to solve it quickly.)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 25

RE: Frozen Game in production step - maybe related to c... - 3/15/2014 10:27:25 AM

AxelNL

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Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
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Ok - my working theory is that with exactly three different div types in the breakdown pool this fails. Based on the fact that with 2 or 5 types this works ok. Did not have the chance to test with 4 different types.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 26

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