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Combat Mission: Market Garden

 
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Combat Mission: Market Garden - 8/17/2013 7:19:19 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline 		This new title was just announced yesterday. This is one of the best (maybe thee best) turn-based, real-time strategy tactical battle simulator...check it out...Combat Mission: Market Garden
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=324&Itemid=561

Patrick
Post #: 1
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 8/18/2013 1:11:18 AM   
Rtwfreak

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 12/11/2011
Status: offline 		I'll wait for Panzer Command: West front game as you don't have to pay $35-$55 PER module for Matrixgames series. The ai in PC:O is better anyways.

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 2
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 8/18/2013 1:19:10 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7

This new title was just announced yesterday. This is one of the best (maybe thee best) turn-based, real-time strategy tactical battle simulator...check it out...Combat Mission: Market Garden
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=324&Itemid=561

Patrick


Loved the first two in the series. I'll check this one out too...

_____________________________


(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 3
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/22/2013 2:40:58 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline 		I'm kind of surprised I haven't heard much response to this fantastic and innovative game series . Granted it is pretty pricey but it truly one of the best and has a long history (in computer gaming that is) behind it.

Patrick

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 4
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/22/2013 3:07:56 PM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline 		Combat Mission is part of a trio of assumed games. It is assumed any real wargamer has played Combat Mission, Steel Panthers and Close Combat.

I'd be interested in Combat Mission if Battlefront were interested in selling them. But their DRM policy is to my thinking, illustrative of a business not interested in make a lot of money.

Hey there has to be a reason why Slitherine Group has something like 200 games on sale here eh :)

I've checked out their Combat Mission Touch though.

_____________________________

I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 5
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/22/2013 3:12:30 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		The original Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord was brilliant. Barbarossa to Berlin was heaps of fun too but they never seemed to fix the foot movement. All your dudes were exhausted in no time. Afrika Korps was great and had more realistic foot movement.

The developers burned a lot of goodwill with Shock Force. When people didn't like the changes they were told they were wrong and stupid. Their attitude was on the nose and they appear to have forgotten the first rule of business because people voted with their wallets and didn't buy it, despite the patched improvements. They eventually included many of the things people wanted but they had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that point and by then a lot of people had already been turned off.

They feel that they "gave away the farm" with Beyond Overlord, as it modelled everything from Normandy to May 1945. That is understandable but how many people bought it precisely for that reason? I know it was one of the reasons I did. It also would have generated plenty of sales for the next two titles.

Now they've returned to Western Europe 1944 and the titles are excellent. Hopefully they've learnt a few lessons. Even if you have to pay for each instalment, consider the bang for buck you get in comparison to almost any other form of entertainment.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 6
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/22/2013 5:16:42 PM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline 		Loved CMBB, the disc stayed in or near my PC for years and years. Love CM:Shock Force, it really hits a sweet spot in tactical gaming.

Not so crazy about the new WW2 games. I have everything except Gustav Line, but probably won't be getting Market Garden or anything else in the future. To me the games just require far too much micro-management. The game is crushed by it's own complexity. LOS is calculated down to the last inch, but the AI is too dumb to move that last inch over so it can engage a target; if you want a single platoon of infantry in a quick battle you must first select an entire battalion and delete everything else; on-map artillery will fire 100 rounds into a hill right in front of it instead of telling you that LOS is blocked, etc, etc

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 7
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/23/2013 11:17:44 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		I don't really care to do business with them.  But I understand why some do.  Good luck with your game though.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 8
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/24/2013 12:12:16 AM   
Boomer78


Posts: 333
Joined: 9/6/2013
Status: offline 		I'll keep playing their games until their e-license DRM requires a blood sample. That far, no further! I draw the line at body fluids.

_____________________________

"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 9
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 9/24/2013 1:58:35 PM   
SapperAstro_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Penrith, Australia
Status: offline 		I loved (still play actually) Beyond Overlord, Barbarossa to Berlin and Afrika Korps.

However, as soon as they started the new 'big daddy' drm system, I haven't touched another battlefront game. Already been burned by other games that use this system and the company dies, meanwhile, my disks from 1980's SSI games still work fine...install them, dosbox them, and suddenly I am storming across europe...

But for the record, if Battlefront ever decided to drop their system in exchange for the Matrix system, I would be there from day one.

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 10
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/7/2014 6:37:01 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		What is Battlefront's DRM system that everyone seems to despise? I am thinking of getting the whole CMBN bundle with everything including cheese and mayo.

But, I would like to know what I would be getting into first.


(in reply to SapperAstro_MatrixForum)
Post #: 11
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/7/2014 6:45:21 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

What is Battlefront's DRM system that everyone seems to despise? I am thinking of getting the whole CMBN bundle with everything including cheese and mayo.

But, I would like to know what I would be getting into first.




Jeff, Here is their web page with DRM info: http://www.battlefront.com/
You won't be disappointed with this great game!

Patrick

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 12
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/7/2014 7:27:47 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

What is Battlefront's DRM system that everyone seems to despise? I am thinking of getting the whole CMBN bundle with everything including cheese and mayo.

But, I would like to know what I would be getting into first.




I'd actually just hold on a little bit - just around the corner is the Eastern Front game, and just beyond that is Shock Force 2 (NATO vs Russia in the Ukraine).

Both of those things actually matter even if you don't want them, because after they release a game Battlefront do some work porting all the engine improvements they've made back into the older games and releasing them as low price upgrades. If the Western front is absolutely your thing and you want the best possible deal then you might want to hold off on the all-inclusive bundle until it has the 3.0 upgrade in it. That's what I'm doing.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 13
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/7/2014 7:35:39 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

I draw the line at body fluids.


Depending on the game and who you play with, you might want to rethink that.

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 14
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/7/2014 8:50:49 PM   
e_barkmann


Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline 		Brilliant, highly immersive tactical gaming system, worth every cent. The upcoming Red Thunder eastern front game is advertised as having a lot of new features - and the beauty of the system is they back port the new features to the older modules so your investment stays up to date (for a measly $10). (ah - as mentioned above by Alchenar)

< Message edited by Chris Merchant -- 3/7/2014 9:53:06 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 15
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 1:21:15 AM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

I'll keep playing their games until their e-license DRM requires a blood sample. That far, no further! I draw the line at body fluids.


That makes no sense. If you're still with them and their e-license, they already have your soul. What's a few fluids after that?

_____________________________

"Lose" is the opposite of "win." "Loose" is the opposite of "tight."

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Twitter is for... (wait for it!) ...Twits!

(in reply to Boomer78)
Post #: 16
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 5:04:22 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I don't really care to do business with them.  But I understand why some do.  Good luck with your game though.


Same here for me. With their DRM approach to things and the module sales it just makes the overall product cost too much. I could see maybe buying one module of my favorite theater but not all of them as that would get into a price range I just cannot stomach for any game series alone. Not even Civilization series did I fork out so much money. I waited a long time for the last 3 of the series before I bought into them. Once a series starts to become a series it's really just becomes extra money for the same game you bought years ago. Sure they have a few updates and content improvement but not 5 years worth like the orginal. Yet, they still want the same amout of money in most cases for it.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 17
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 11:59:34 AM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I don't really care to do business with them.  But I understand why some do.  Good luck with your game though.


Same here for me. With their DRM approach to things and the module sales it just makes the overall product cost too much. I could see maybe buying one module of my favorite theater but not all of them as that would get into a price range I just cannot stomach for any game series alone. Not even Civilization series did I fork out so much money. I waited a long time for the last 3 of the series before I bought into them. Once a series starts to become a series it's really just becomes extra money for the same game you bought years ago. Sure they have a few updates and content improvement but not 5 years worth like the orginal. Yet, they still want the same amout of money in most cases for it.


To me it's all about great game play, yes cost is an issue for some but I narrow my game purchases to well crafted games. Reviews are essential for finding out about a game, a well made game or franchise generally costs more and I will always invest in those!

Patrick

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 18
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 1:38:57 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I think its well worth the cost,many user made scenario's,free to download.

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 19
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 4:26:50 PM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline 		To me it's worth the price just for the unique experience offered. The games never leave my hard-drive, partly because they are great, partly because of PITA experiences with the DRM and limited activations . Every gripe I have with the engine and requested features seem to be getting addressed over time. Some people don't like the idea of the paid engine updates, but I think it's a fantastic idea for giving longevity to older titles.

The thing I don't get is why the games seem to be developed separately using *almost* the same code, instead of just having a single line of engine development and plugging new content into it. Now they have a half-dozen different patches to make for every bug fix, balance tweak, etc instead of one. I would like to see something along the lines of DCS World.

< Message edited by Ranger33 -- 3/8/2014 5:29:00 PM >

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 20
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 4:51:19 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline 		They have actually made some noises about trying to unify their game/engine system, of course on Battlefront time that could be years away.

I'm also somewhat surprised by the price complaints. Sure if you buy ALL THE EXPANSIONS at once it gets pretty expensive, but the base game is priced less than a AAA mainstream title. Expansions are similarly priced but each one tends to get you a similar amount of content (a couple of new OOBs, a new Campaign or two, a couple of dozen scenarios) as the base game.


(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 21
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 5:06:47 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 22
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 5:16:21 PM   
Alchenar

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/2/2010
Status: offline 		... but you don't have to buy the modules if you don't want them?

I'm really struggling to see how it's an unfair money grab. They make a game. Sell it. Make expansions to that game. Sell those. The expansions materially add to the content of the base game in a non-trivial way.

It's odd to be writing this because I'm usually on the 'wargames should be cheaper' side of the argument, but you don't seem to be giving any reason for thinking you shouldn't have to pay for the modules beyond a sheer sense of entitlement.

e: in fact it's doubly weird because modular content is one of the best things to have happened to PC gaming as a result of digital distribution. It lets you produce content and work on your engine in the same time that's gotten Battlefront into a bit of a tangle with regards to their shop, but they're still putting out products at a rate that puts any Matrix affiliated developer to shame.

< Message edited by Alchenar -- 3/8/2014 6:21:19 PM >

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 23
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/8/2014 5:25:30 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Depends on how one looks at it. I see it as a money grab because the original combat mission were sold in theaters and now they just broke it down into money grab modules. Same thing really. The ai is still piss pitiful as before. I can either go down the edges of the map or just sit and wait. There's no randomly made maps anymore, everything has to be player made or they make them. Not replays in TCP/IP and so many other things. Reduce the amount of content and sell for the same or more. Yeah that's the ticket. I just won't buy into it, you're more than welcome to.

(in reply to Alchenar)
Post #: 24
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/9/2014 1:18:38 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger33

To me it's worth the price just for the unique experience offered. The games never leave my hard-drive, partly because they are great, partly because of PITA experiences with the DRM and limited activations . Every gripe I have with the engine and requested features seem to be getting addressed over time. Some people don't like the idea of the paid engine updates, but I think it's a fantastic idea for giving longevity to older titles.

The thing I don't get is why the games seem to be developed separately using *almost* the same code, instead of just having a single line of engine development and plugging new content into it. Now they have a half-dozen different patches to make for every bug fix, balance tweak, etc instead of one. I would like to see something along the lines of DCS World.


Joe, enjoyed your message...but for us acronym handicapped, what does "PITA" and "DCS" mean?

Patrick

(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 25
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/9/2014 2:09:37 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		For serious wargamers this is truly a wonderful game. I have all the Battlefront Combat Mission Series and modules and I don't regret a single purchase.

They are well worth the money.

Combat Mission is, in my view, is the finest tactical combat game available.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 3/9/2014 3:10:12 PM >

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 26
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/9/2014 2:12:26 PM   
mikkey


Posts: 3142
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Patrick, this is PITA and DCS is Digital Combat Simulator

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 27
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/9/2014 2:25:16 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikkey

Patrick, this is PITA and DCS is Digital Combat Simulator


Thank you mikkey!

Patrick

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 28
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/9/2014 2:36:45 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

Comparing PC to CBM is like apples and oranges,PC looks like crap compared to CBM

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 29
RE: Combat Mission: Market Garden - 3/9/2014 3:00:23 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not everyone is interested in new OOB's or a new campaign (that one can build themselves I might add) or two and a couple of dozen scenarios. One game can do it all really if they would just give us everything in one game. This module based system is just a money grab, no if's and's or but's about it. You don't or didn't see Matrixgames do that with Panzer Command. In fact they even gave us Osfront for free if we own Panzer Command: Karkov beforehand. That's a real good bargain and price to me. So, I will continue to buy Matrixgames Panzer Command series over Battlefront's. No DRM either I might add.

Comparing PC to CBM is like apples and oranges,PC looks like crap compared to CBM


Mike, I agree CBM looks fantastic but PC looks pretty good...and plays well too.

Patrick

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 30
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