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RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/9/2014 6:10:02 PM

AxelNL

Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was asking you, as you used the word.. so what is reasonable and how does it relate to the buy price?

To put in my chip, it would have been more acceptable if it was sold as a ticket to a prerelease. A change to help iron out the full product. A price difference between the two would have been logical.

To put it in perpective - the price of the paper versions was already stiff compared to other ganes - and we had to pay the full monty for every new release as the old one was deemed not good enough.

Let's not start this flame war again please. We have been / are all frustrated. I'd rather help identify bugs, or have fun in the modding forum.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 31

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/9/2014 8:17:32 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was asking you, as you used the word.. so what is reasonable and how does it relate to the buy price?

To put in my chip, it would have been more acceptable if it was sold as a ticket to a prerelease. A change to help iron out the full product. A price difference between the two would have been logical.

To put it in perpective - the price of the paper versions was already stiff compared to other ganes - and we had to pay the full monty for every new release as the old one was deemed not good enough.

Let's not start this flame war again please. We have been / are all frustrated. I'd rather help identify bugs, or have fun in the modding forum.

I agree, however, I'm not the one who keeps muttering about the price and what he's got for it. Mind you, he's right in stating that Matrix doesn't deliver, but I'm tired of being confronted by these kind of remarks. Let him do it in PM to the people at Matrix themselves. It's not helping us any and only increases frustration (of which there is enough around at the moment). I can't stand these kind of remarks and will open fire if someone puts those in here.

But if you all want it, I will cease firing if the other side does so too...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to AxelNL)

Post #: 32

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/9/2014 8:42:07 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was asking you, as you used the word.. so what is reasonable and how does it relate to the buy price?

To put in my chip, it would have been more acceptable if it was sold as a ticket to a prerelease. A change to help iron out the full product. A price difference between the two would have been logical.

To put it in perpective - the price of the paper versions was already stiff compared to other ganes - and we had to pay the full monty for every new release as the old one was deemed not good enough.

Let's not start this flame war again please. We have been / are all frustrated. I'd rather help identify bugs, or have fun in the modding forum.

I agree, however, I'm not the one who keeps muttering about the price and what he's got for it. Mind you, he's right in stating that Matrix doesn't deliver, but I'm tired of being confronted by these kind of remarks. Let him do it in PM to the people at Matrix themselves. It's not helping us any and only increases frustration (of which there is enough around at the moment). I can't stand these kind of remarks and will open fire if someone puts those in here.

But if you all want it, I will cease firing if the other side does so too...

warspite1

To be fair, all he did was ask a question. If you pay $100 for a product, what do you have a reasonable right to expect?

Does that help us? Does that help the game? No of course not, but its a legitimate question - one that Matrix should answer and I, as a consumer of products generally, was happy to. The answer is quite simple.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 33

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/9/2014 9:17:29 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline

Well, the thread is called "So, is it playable yet?". A question asked by someone who apparently came to the conclusion at some point in the past that it was _not_ playable. I find it misleading to answer affirmative if indeed there was little to no change since.

The other thing is: I was confronted several times that I have too high expectations. I want to know what is so over the top with my expectations and what are adequate expectations.

MWiF fails almost across the board concerning its advertisement.. It is a render engine for counters and a world map with 70% finished ruleset implementation (and apparently untested). Several month after "release" we have seen mostly minor bug fixes. What little we have seen for the netplay is a farce.. If netplay ever works it will be designed for two people.. I personally dont' care for an AI, but I don't give that a fair change either.. In toto, I have absolutely no clue how Steve will be able to deliver within a "reasonable" time frame. And it is not that Matrix sees a problem or will allocate more resources.

Centuur: I personally don't care if you are offended, there is a green button you can use..

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 34

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/9/2014 11:54:15 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was asking you, as you used the word.. so what is reasonable and how does it relate to the buy price?

To put in my chip, it would have been more acceptable if it was sold as a ticket to a prerelease. A change to help iron out the full product. A price difference between the two would have been logical.

To put it in perpective - the price of the paper versions was already stiff compared to other ganes - and we had to pay the full monty for every new release as the old one was deemed not good enough.

Let's not start this flame war again please. We have been / are all frustrated. I'd rather help identify bugs, or have fun in the modding forum.

I agree, however, I'm not the one who keeps muttering about the price and what he's got for it. Mind you, he's right in stating that Matrix doesn't deliver, but I'm tired of being confronted by these kind of remarks. Let him do it in PM to the people at Matrix themselves. It's not helping us any and only increases frustration (of which there is enough around at the moment). I can't stand these kind of remarks and will open fire if someone puts those in here.

But if you all want it, I will cease firing if the other side does so too...

warspite1

To be fair, all he did was ask a question. If you pay $100 for a product, what do you have a reasonable right to expect?

Does that help us? Does that help the game? No of course not, but its a legitimate question - one that Matrix should answer and I, as a consumer of products generally, was happy to. The answer is quite simple.

I think warspite that centuur is also saying we are getting beaten over the head by remark after remark by many posters and there is nothing we can do about it as beta people, its on Steve and Matrix not us, and whether a poster is right does not help us mentally, nor should it. I have no argument what is said about the $100 I certainly would not be very happy about paying that plus shipping. I would like to say more and someday I just might.

A few posters would be really enjoying the comments in the beta forums this week about MWIF, I just wish I could express what we have all said in a very heated disscusion.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 3/10/2014 12:58:24 AM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 35

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 2:51:52 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi everyone,

A couple of comments on this. We are all working as hard as possible to resolve reported issues with MWIF and to meet all players' expectations. It's fair to say that despite our best efforts, NetPlay still has too many issues at this time, though progress has been constant. Solitaire is solid for most players, but there are corner cases in terms of play style and strategy that have uncovered new bugs since release and there have certainly been some more common critical issues in past builds. Many of these have been addressed, others are still on the to fix list.

Steve has been diligently working his way through the reported issues. We're having a discussion today to review the status of MWIF and set priorities for the next month of development, based on feedback from customers and testers. I'll post again here by the end of the week once that review is complete.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 36

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 4:25:24 PM

majordefeat

Posts: 15
Joined: 3/10/2014
Status: offline

Here's a thought!!! Maybe instead of reviewing your customer feedback you should review what you have yourself committed to as part of your advertising of this product:

These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues. We will address the known issues ASAP and any others as they come up. We're committed to prompt post-release support for WIF now and for years into the future.

That would seem to have been what - 7 months ago? To now post that you know the product is not playable in multiplayer format, and yet you continue to market it as such, well I think that is really quite unethical.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 37

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 4:35:56 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline

It is a fraud! They know it.. and they are getting away with it, so they have no inventive to change anything..
This kind of statement by Erik just shows how out of sync he must be with this project.

Personal suggestion: cash out the people and commit ritual suicide to preserve the last bit of honor you might possees..

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to majordefeat)

Post #: 38

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 4:47:38 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Wow. Over the top as always Dabrion. Have you seriously never bought a game for $60-70 before and were disappointed?

If they were not obviously working as hard as they can, I would totally agree with you. But unlike so many other games that I personally have paid big bucks for and the companies involved just abandoned them, Matrix/Steve are still working to fix everything. If they stop and give up, then it is a differnt story.

Personally, I would MUCH rather have WiF as a computer game in its current state versus not having one at all. Unlike many of the other high priced titles, with WiF you can still go back to playing the board game versus something just sitting on your HD taking up space.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 39

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 4:58:17 PM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Hi everyone,
A couple of comments on this. We are all working as hard as possible to resolve reported issues with MWIF and to meet all players' expectations. It's fair to say that despite our best efforts, NetPlay still has too many issues at this time, though progress has been constant. Solitaire is solid for most players, but there are corner cases in terms of play style and strategy that have uncovered new bugs since release and there have certainly been some more common critical issues in past builds. Many of these have been addressed, others are still on the to fix list.
Steve has been diligently working his way through the reported issues. We're having a discussion today to review the status of MWIF and set priorities for the next month of development, based on feedback from customers and testers. I'll post again here by the end of the week once that review is complete.
Regards,
- Erik

Erik,

You are the face of Matrix coming to this forum asking for feedback. Your message is vague in the kind of feedback you want. So come with me through the minefield you created with this post.
First off, I'm a paying customer. $202.29 to be exact.
As a Hunter of Wargames since the 1970's. I have a pretty good collection of board and computer games. Most are just trophy games now. Boxes arrayed on a shelf. Seen not played.

WiF was always different. It was the game hunter's prized catch. 7 separate boxes, most of the expansions. All bought when playing the game had a safari of players to gather doing allnighters on weekends.
Times change we get older. Most of the gaming done in the past is past. For good and varied reasons.

Now lets fast forward to Order Date: 07 Nov 2013.
On that date i had exactly 2 expectations for the game. One, that i could play it. Two, That i could play it with another hunter.

Imagine my surprise when i read this post from you. IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release - 11/7/2013 5:18:20 PM.

Ok, NetPlay component is not shipping. Adapt be flexible. That's life. Using the time to familiarize myself with the game and the community who will be my fellow hunters is not a bad thing. By December i had a good grasp of MWiF.

So happy i even began to think in terms of doing an AAR. It went along smoothy, except for a few nagging problems. Supply was one of them. Absolutely the most important element in a game since wargames. It was not working correctly. If MWiF can't figure out the supply, how do i implement grand sweeping maneuvers? Instead I'm reduced to workarounds. Which makes the game seem disabled. You deal with it til the component is fixed. Until then the wooden peg is all you got. So you watch where you walk, you don't send Germans to Africa.

Resource allocation especially with regards to oil. The workaround, don't play with the oil option.

Are these 2 elements are still being worked on? You tell me. I'm all ears/eyes.

Then there was the day i woke up, fired up the game and realized it sucks to play both sides, 7 nations, alone.

Let that sink in.

Playing MWiF alone.

My car is made to drive, not sit on the street. My life to hunt. MWif to play other hunters. NetPlay fails on a order of magnitude above all else, at this point in time.

4 months out.
Do you remember what you said Erik?

quote:

"WIF will also continue to improve through the post-release updates with new options, new features, up to 6 players for multiplayer and eventually AI, but our immediate priority will be addressing these recent NetPlay issues and making sure the NetPlay support works fully as intended."

Half-truths at best. The word priority conjures up a mirage of netplay geeks at your disposal tackling this obstacle day and night without thought of failure. Imagine if NetPlay were working today.

The truth is unknown to me. Whatever was in your mind when the word priority was used is your truth. My mistake was taking your words as honest and heartfelt.

We are not passive prey to be fed words. We are game eaters looking to feast on this product. Get your ass in gear. Get some resources to help from your end. Make NetPlay the priority you said it was on Order Date: 07 Nov 2013.
Thank you,
Ricky

_____________________________

�We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.�
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 40

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 5:22:51 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: majordefeat
Here's a thought!!! Maybe instead of reviewing your customer feedback you should review what you have yourself committed to as part of your advertising of this product:

These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues. We will address the known issues ASAP and any others as they come up. We're committed to prompt post-release support for WIF now and for years into the future.

That would seem to have been what - 7 months ago? To now post that you know the product is not playable in multiplayer format, and yet you continue to market it as such, well I think that is really quite unethical.

That would have been back in November, 4.5 months ago. I've posted two more updates about the state of NetPlay since, but in other threads. You correctly point out that the original post/thread should be updated.

I'll post a new thread regarding the state of the game this week. Steve's regular updates on the state of WIF have been the intended way of keeping you all informed. He has been posting these regularly in another pinned thread.

The original post you quoted accurately reflected my understanding at that time. Clearly, I was wrong regarding how long it would take to get NetPlay to a good state that worked for all customers and we were also overconfident on the state of solitaire play. By we, I mean me and Steve as we ultimately made the decision on release timing.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to majordefeat)

Post #: 41

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 5:24:06 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi Dabrion,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
It is a fraud! They know it.. and they are getting away with it, so they have no inventive to change anything..
This kind of statement by Erik just shows how out of sync he must be with this project.

Personal suggestion: cash out the people and commit ritual suicide to preserve the last bit of honor you might possees..

This post is across the line in terms of our forum rules. This is not fraud and suggesting that someone commit suicide because you are unhappy with their game is reprehensible. Consider this a warning to re-read the forum rules.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 42

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 5:29:38 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi WarHunter,

I read everything you posted and I completely understand your point of view. The blame belongs on my shoulders and I'm sorry we have fallen so far short of your expectations. The reason for the review this week and the post I made earlier is to let you know that we are also disappointed that this much time has passed without the NetPlay issues being resolved. We are doing our best to chart a course together with Steve to get to that critical mass point where the vast majority of players will be able to play without issues, either solitaire or NetPlay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
Are these 2 elements are still being worked on? You tell me. I'm all ears/eyes.

Supply and production planning are in our top three priorities along with NetPlay and they've already received a lot of work since release. We are giving these as much attention as possible as we realize their importance to the game.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to WarHunter)

Post #: 43

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 5:45:19 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline

You advertised a computer version of World in Flames. Like in a finished product. Payment was done, and I received this wreck of a software. Now you promise you get it done eventually.. like some time this millenium.. or tomorrow.. noone knows. Yet there is not date, no timeline, not catalogue of actions you want to take. Only vague, inconsequential glibberish..

My impressions is that it is fraud (deception intended to result in financial gain).

The other part was only a suggestion. It is an accepted way to preserve once families' or companies' honor in eastern asian cultures. I can see why you are not interested, though.

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 44

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 6:21:37 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi Dabrion,

Your impression is incorrect. There was never any intent to deceive or to commit fraud. We have however fallen short of our own and your expectations and we are working diligently to earn back your trust and that of the rest of the WIF community.

I accept the feedback that my updates and Steve's regular updates on this forum have not been enough to keep the community informed. We'll do better on that, starting later this week.

Regarding you following up your first insult with another one, that unfortunately says a lot more about you than it does about me. Consider this your second warning, any other personal attacks or insults will result in a forum ban. We don't ban for criticism or negative feedback, but we do ban for violations of the forum rules.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 3/10/2014 7:22:11 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 45

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 6:23:55 PM

WarHunter

Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Hi WarHunter,
I read everything you posted and I completely understand your point of view. The blame belongs on my shoulders and I'm sorry we have fallen so far short of your expectations. The reason for the review this week and the post I made earlier is to let you know that we are also disappointed that this much time has passed without the NetPlay issues being resolved. We are doing our best to chart a course together with Steve to get to that critical mass point where the vast majority of players will be able to play without issues, either solitaire or NetPlay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
Are these 2 elements are still being worked on? You tell me. I'm all ears/eyes.

Supply and production planning are in our top three priorities along with NetPlay and they've already received a lot of work since release. We are giving these as much attention as possible as we realize their importance to the game.
Regards,
- Erik

Erik,

Thanks for the prompt reply. It takes a man to apologize in public to another man. Thank you.

Realize this is a passing moment in time. Any drama will fade leaving us/you with the cold hard facts to deal with. Whatever plans you and Steve come up with, has to include us, the player base. Be we beta tester or not.

We are a varied and dedicated bunch of men from around the world with this game as a common denominator. We want a new chapter of continued support that reflects the demands of a released game. It just doesn't have that feel to it yet.

Knock out those 3 priorities and regain some measure of trust. Your reward is a job well done reflected in the game you have helped create.

I want to recommend the game, just not right now to my friends.

_____________________________

�We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.�
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 46

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 6:37:00 PM

Dabrion

Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Dabrion,

Your impression is incorrect. There was never any intent to deceive or to commit fraud. We have however fallen short of our own and your expectations and we are working diligently to earn back your trust and that of the rest of the WIF community.

I accept the feedback that my updates and Steve's regular updates on this forum have not been enough to keep the community informed. We'll do better on that, starting later this week.

Regarding you following up your first insult with another one, that unfortunately says a lot more about you than it does about me. Consider this your second warning, any other personal attacks or insults will result in a forum ban. We don't ban for criticism or negative feedback, but we do ban for violations of the forum rules.

Regards,

- Erik

You have a history of announcing things and not seeing them, through. Banning me could be the first step to actually deliver a promise.. until "later this week"..

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 47

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 7:45:39 PM

joshuamnave

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Solitaire is solid for most players, but there are corner cases in terms of play style and strategy that have uncovered new bugs since release and there have certainly been some more common critical issues in past builds.

Corner cases?? Are you serious with this?

I suppose that the supply bugs only affect those Axis players whose play style and strategy involve never moving their units or attacking. So that makes the supply bugs a corner case for the small percentage of us that actually try to attack the other side in a war game.

I suppose the phantom convoy bug only affects those players who use submarine warfare in a world war two game. Crazy, I know...

I suppose the peacekeeper bug only affects the rare game where a minor country is allied to a neutral major power. Like if Germany refuses the Russian demands on Bessarabia or Finland.

I guess the bug that doesn't require a player to take the mandatory losses only affects players that never use combat engineers, never suffer a loss in a blitz attack, and never use winterized units. Since this is a world war two game, it's probably just a small percentage of players trying to take advantage of those new fangled armor units.

I guess the bug that prevents lend lease build points from releasing their targets only affects players that want to take advantage of the massive US economy.

I guess the bug that stops the Japanese build point from reaching the US player only affects... oh wait, since that bug only affects some players for some unknown reason, it's not a priority. Even though we paid the same $100 as everyone else.

Your definition of a "corner case" appears to be "playing the game"

Dabrion is over the line when he suggests ritual suicide, but I'm not sure he isn't right when he alleges fraud. You released a game in an unplayable state without disclosing the extent of the problems (only net play was supposed to no be working yet, and there was a promise to make that a top priority. Neither of those things were accurate). If you released the game without realizing the state it was in, then it was willful ignorance.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 48

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 8:40:11 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Solitaire is solid for most players, but there are corner cases in terms of play style and strategy that have uncovered new bugs since release and there have certainly been some more common critical issues in past builds.

Corner cases?? Are you serious with this?

Please also see the bold part above. This is not any kind of attempt to smoke screen. There have been common critical issues and there are some critical issues that are still common, but we've resolved hundreds of issues since release and a great majority were corner cases. I'm trying to represent the reality we see on the development side in the sense that the majority of blocking issues have been related to very specific combinations of actions and options. This does not mean there haven't also been issues that were common to many players.

quote:

You released a game in an unplayable state without disclosing the extent of the problems (only net play was supposed to no be working yet, and there was a promise to make that a top priority. Neither of those things were accurate). If you released the game without realizing the state it was in, then it was willful ignorance.

I can certainly be accused of ignorance, that's fair. I was clearly wrong about the state of the game, but I think the frustration we all feel that we are this far past release and all issues are not yet resolved is also causing some to overlook the progress we have made. We're having a full review this week specifically because we're not happy either and we'll post back here by the end of the week to let you all know how we plan to get WIF to where it should be.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to joshuamnave)

Post #: 49

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 8:43:43 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
Realize this is a passing moment in time. Any drama will fade leaving us/you with the cold hard facts to deal with. Whatever plans you and Steve come up with, has to include us, the player base. Be we beta tester or not.

We are a varied and dedicated bunch of men from around the world with this game as a common denominator. We want a new chapter of continued support that reflects the demands of a released game. It just doesn't have that feel to it yet.

Knock out those 3 priorities and regain some measure of trust. Your reward is a job well done reflected in the game you have helped create.

I want to recommend the game, just not right now to my friends.

Thank you, I agree with you in all respects.

Regards,

- Erik

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to WarHunter)

Post #: 50

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 8:44:45 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
You have a history of announcing things and not seeing them, through. Banning me could be the first step to actually deliver a promise.. until "later this week"..

That's the one thing I'd rather not follow through on. Feel free to vent at me, but please keep personal attacks out of it.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 51

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 8:53:59 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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As an addendum to Zaratacla, the testers also pointed out that my initial post was probably easier to read as suggesting we were only dealing with corner cases rather than the other way. That was not my intention, so let me reiterate that we're not blind to the issues you mentioned, nor do we think that only corner cases remain to be resolved. We're doing a full review this week that will result in a post to the community at the end of this week regarding the state of the game and our plan going forward.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 52

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 8:57:42 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As an addendum to Zaratacla, the testers also pointed out that my initial post was probably easier to read as suggesting we were only dealing with corner cases rather than the other way. That was not my intention, so let me reiterate that we're not blind to the issues you mentioned, nor do we think that only corner cases remain to be resolved. We're doing a full review this week that will result in a post to the community at the end of this week regarding the state of the game and our plan going forward.

Regards,

- Erik

warspite1

Many thanks Erik.

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Post #: 53

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 9:49:57 PM

gravyhair

Posts: 164
Joined: 3/15/2003
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Erik - I know you've been around the block, so you may not need to hear this - but hang in there. I dismissed this game 5 years ago and said it would never happen. I was wrong. There are problems, but I am just amazed at how much has actually been accomplished. I am enjoying it. Lots of us are. We're silent most of the time, but we're here. I have no faith that NetPlay will really work ... but I was wrong before. Enjoying it solo and hotseat. :-)

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Post #: 54

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 11:35:30 PM

majordefeat

Posts: 15
Joined: 3/10/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: majordefeat
Here's a thought!!! Maybe instead of reviewing your customer feedback you should review what you have yourself committed to as part of your advertising of this product:

These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues. We will address the known issues ASAP and any others as they come up. We're committed to prompt post-release support for WIF now and for years into the future.

That would seem to have been what - 7 months ago? To now post that you know the product is not playable in multiplayer format, and yet you continue to market it as such, well I think that is really quite unethical.

That would have been back in November, 4.5 months ago. I've posted two more updates about the state of NetPlay since, but in other threads. You correctly point out that the original post/thread should be updated.

I'll post a new thread regarding the state of the game this week. Steve's regular updates on the state of WIF have been the intended way of keeping you all informed. He has been posting these regularly in another pinned thread.

The original post you quoted accurately reflected my understanding at that time. Clearly, I was wrong regarding how long it would take to get NetPlay to a good state that worked for all customers and we were also overconfident on the state of solitaire play. By we, I mean me and Steve as we ultimately made the decision on release timing.

Regards,

- Erik

Talk is cheap.
Update your product webpage.
Just provide a second link directly under the first - Important update re multiplayer'. Your post above essentially covers the terrain.
You originally advertised your intentions regarding updates, not some bloke called Steve.
Your post is linked to as part of advertising, not all the updates issued since by Steve.

A person who purchases the product on a distant post regarding non-structural issues/issues that not all customers would encounter, a commitment to have these issues resolved in one week, will play the single player and think this game is pretty cool. They may encourage a friend to purchase the product. They will go to play multiplayer and realise that its functionality has been overstated and its issues downplayed.

So dishonest not to update your page straight away once these issues are known. Not in a week.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 55

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/10/2014 11:40:47 PM

Dorb

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Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Ohio
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I have no problem as I purchased this game knowing that it is a work in progress and was never done when bought. Mainly wanted to support the effort to keep it going. Keep up the great work and thanks.

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Post #: 56

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/11/2014 2:34:09 AM

dplummer

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+1

And have to ask, where about in the Buckeye State? I'm in Columbus.

(in reply to Dorb)

Post #: 57

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/11/2014 3:03:40 AM

CrusssDaddy

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These are the sort of bland, by-the-numbers, obligatory responses that sometimes worked ten years ago, or more, as an efficient way for companies to get ahead of criticism and re-frame conversation away from a nerdrage death spiral. Now (from the outside looking in) the responses are amusingly tone deaf, as customers are much more savvy to insincere attempts at crisis management. Invoking Dabrion's silly jibe as an opportunity to play the victim was a clumsy reach and further demonstrates a lack of genuine regard.

In Erik's defense, Matrix ignored MWiF during the entirety of its 10 year development and they did so obviously and transparently -- by what right should they now be held to a higher standard?

(in reply to Dorb)

Post #: 58

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/11/2014 5:40:19 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

These are the sort of bland, by-the-numbers, obligatory responses that sometimes worked ten years ago, or more, as an efficient way for companies to get ahead of criticism and re-frame conversation away from a nerdrage death spiral. Now (from the outside looking in) the responses are amusingly tone deaf, as customers are much more savvy to insincere attempts at crisis management. Invoking Dabrion's silly jibe as an opportunity to play the victim was a clumsy reach and further demonstrates a lack of genuine regard.

In Erik's defense, Matrix ignored MWiF during the entirety of its 10 year development and they did so obviously and transparently -- by what right should they now be held to a higher standard?

warspite1

"nerdrage (Sic) death spiral"

I love it when you talk dirty Crusss.

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Post #: 59

RE: So is it playable yet? - 3/11/2014 10:52:02 AM

shaddock

Posts: 192
Joined: 9/18/2013
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Since I bought this only for the maps, I can honestly says I'm happy as a lark. They're beautiful! And I got a game to play as well. It doesn't work properly but since I don't care about it, I for one, can wait an eternity till it does.

On a sad note, my partner and I have, for the time, given up on this game. And I have uninstalled it :(

I guess the other thing I got from this, was incite to how such a complicated game comes together. I'd have to pay more than $200 for such a class. This will help me in my own project.

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Post #: 60