Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: dplummer

+1

And have to ask, where about in the Buckeye State? I'm in Columbus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls. Our group of friends has 3 copies of the game and 1 of the map and we are lifetime WiF players.

We knew the game would not be ready out of the box but certainly did not expect 5 months to pass without netplay.

I look forward to Erik's update and remain hopeful!



As do all of us Yohan. A simple check huh! There is nothing simple here except us simpletons, we can turn simple checks into a third world war as you have seen

Can't wait for your next simple check a year from now Hopefully sooner.

Bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls.

Hell, that was answered with the first post.
The rest is just "splash" damage.

(in reply to YohanTM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.

Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me

But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.

I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI  

quote:

So is it playable yet?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question

quote:

So is it playable yet?

I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question

quote:

So is it playable yet?

I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.

Oh come on now Otto you are among friends how do you really feel

Bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Otto von Blotto

As an outsider who didn't take this up when first released as I was going to wait until a AI was available and didn't want to buy books from America I'm sorry to say but for me I think I have dodged a bullet with this as it is looking more like a turkey every week.

Don't get me wrong I was genuinely excited about this game, the scope and look of it is amazing I have watched the forums since 2008 and given the time it's taken it certainly not beyond the whit of man and modern computers to get this even moderately right but I think so far it has fallen very far short of it's remit.

so in answer to the original question

quote:

So is it playable yet?

I'm sorry but for me and what I would want from a computer game nearly 5 months after release, I would have to say firmly No and it doesn't seem that it will be for a long time yet. quite frankly I don't now see me every buying this game, as if it's taking this long to sort solo and net play a workable email and AI are a very very long way in the future.

Oh come on now Otto you are among friends how do you really feel

Bo

That is my honest and heartfelt assessment, true it is without spending over £100 to see for myself and just from what I have inferred and read, I remember how vocal you were about some of the wastelands games in the past that came nowhere near as short of the mark of this did, and about how you posted about this early on before you became part of the team, I could ask you the same question why don't you say how you really feel about what's been released.?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.

Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me

But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.

I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI  

+1

quote:

ORIGINAL: majordefeat


I was a WiF board gamer a long time ago until time and reality kicked in.
I knew of the development of a computer game through updates from a relative.
I didn't involve myself in the email lists or this forum etc because it sounded like a bit of a saga.
I was happy to wait for the end of it.

Since you have asked, it seems one approach to the development of a game like this may have been to build an engine that supported vanilla wif in limited scope, to which you would add over time different expansion packs (in terms of units or maps etc). Or ideally, which can be added to over time by community / open source developers.

The advantage of such an approach would be not just in time to develop, but cashflow through the development process. Essentially, you are asking people to pay for the underlying engine, which is itself playable, and then again for modules, which add to the range of play.

I don't disagree that building wif the game is itself a grand achievement. I think the single player version is really quite excellent. The thing is though, the product is now on the market, it is being sold to people who are now just customers, and not wif fanboys / people who have tracked its trajectory over time.

In response to concerns which are raised now about the full functionality of the product, it may be able to point to the loyal customer base which has followed the development of the product over time, the technical complexity of the product, the pathway / timeline for resolution of bugs.

I'm not sure how far these arguments will fly for people who are new consumers for Wif whether board or computer, who are going to be more interested in getting value for money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I would really love to hear in detail, along with a financal analysis, of how you would have created a computer version of WiF which satisified your vision for it. Along with your return on investment numbers for doing it your way Dabrion.

It is the easiest thing in the world to bitch and moan about how this does not work, the developer is a moron for doing things this way, Matrix, should have done X instead of Y, etc. The list is endless. However, I did not (nor have I seen) anyone else willing to take this project on. Have you contacted ADG and asked if YOU can take a shot at creating a computer version using 'modern technology'? I am sure if you were willing to give them a better incentive than Matrix, they would let you try.

Steve and Matrix have done something that many did not think possible. Does it have issues yes. Will they be fixed, I believe so. But until the complainers here are willing to put their own time and own money into doing the same thing like Steve and Matrix have and continue to do so, I personally think everyones time would be better spent tring to help fix what we have versus just saying this is trash and just giving up. But hey, that is just me

But if you would rather just say "Woe is me, they did not do it the way I wanted waaa waaaa" or "It is not perfect on release.", etc., that is certainly your right and I will support your ability to do so. Just do not expect to let it go without speaking up myself. Regardless how often you do it.

I do know you are well versed in the game and some of your posts have been extremely helpful to me and others. So I know you can be a great asset to the forum. It is just when you go off like the above, that I find not helpful and determential. So I would much perfer the other Dabrion rather than the latter just as an FYI  

+1

quote:

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

quote:

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.

You make funny joke!

quote:

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls

WiF was the holy grail of gaming for me. Purchased my first copy in Reno Neveda in 89/90.

Have been following MWiF development from the start on this forum. Was very excited to buy MWiF and am enjoying playing the solitare game.

To me the fatal decision was to go with NetPlay at release and not a basic AI. By basic I mean an AI that could execute a historic type strategy for the major powers.

If this is my project my priorities are:
1. Cleanup issues such as supply/oil.
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.
3. Get netplay to work for Local LANs

To me netplay is the single hardest option to implement for MWiF and should have been addon module.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb

quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls.

Hell, that was answered with the first post.
The rest is just "splash" damage.

Funny Dorb...and true

(in reply to Dorb)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

To all that wish we had an AI,

I totally agree with your opinion about an AI shipping with computer games. It's a no-brainer. You and i have very similar experience with games and AI. Early computer war-games had to have an AI. The infrastructure to NetPlay was just not there. Tigers in the Snow is a good example of a early war-game. SSI created many titles that were just great. All had AI. The whole foundation for today's AI's are founded with those oldies but goodies.

Even during that time, WiF was one of the only boardgames i was still playing with gaming buddies. Think about this. WiF is played by up to 6 players. Add beer and beans, each player contributes more raw computing power than any CPU in existence today. That's not to say we focus all of it.

Creating an AI for WiF is a hell of a thing to do. To dare greatly is what being human is all about. I expect one day to see that MWiF AI. It will take some time to get there. Alot more time than TCPIP will. We need NetPlay to bring the MWiF community together and playing. I challenge anyone on this to prove this as wrong headed.

When the players around the world are playing. The door opens for Steve and his AI for MWiF. The game has to be stable first. It has to be able to play between humans. We are the ultimate gamer in the MWiF arena.

Without the Human element the AI is nothing. An entire Planet of MWiF players to choose from is greater than any AI envisioned in the near future. The sheer number of options make me shudder to think an AI wil be able to navigate the myriad combinations. It will take the entire community around the world to find those little hidden bugs before any AI. Because we will playing it Person to Person on the magical net highway.

Switching gears to prioritize the AI now, will not happen. I just don't see it. I want to see an AI. Any AI takes a backseat to Bo, AxelNL, Centuur, warspite1, Shellshock, Zorachus99, Dabrion, alex_van_d, and dozens more players who feel and think and live today all together at this point in time. An AI can be for the next generation of MWiF players for all i care. NetPlay is a much easier project to complete after the stable game platform.

My gut feeling is that it was always intended to be NetPlay first. But the game does need to be stable as a foundation to play the game. That's where we need to be now. Maybe if they marketed MWiF as a beta early release, they could have had much more respect among some of the more disappointed buyers. That's just a simple fantasy easy to dismiss from today's reality.

Anyone interested in looking at the history of Netplay need only go to the Sticky Thread MWIF Monthly Reports. You will see 2012 as possibly the key year where NetPlay had major surgery. Feb 2012 is a good month to read.

What kind of NetPlay options are we gonna get?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

To all that wish we had an AI,

I totally agree with your opinion about an AI shipping with computer games. It's a no-brainer. You and i have very similar experience with games and AI. Early computer war-games had to have an AI. The infrastructure to NetPlay was just not there. Tigers in the Snow is a good example of a early war-game. SSI created many titles that were just great. All had AI. The whole foundation for today's AI's are founded with those oldies but goodies.

Even during that time, WiF was one of the only boardgames i was still playing with gaming buddies. Think about this. WiF is played by up to 6 players. Add beer and beans, each player contributes more raw computing power than any CPU in existence today. That's not to say we focus all of it.

Creating an AI for WiF is a hell of a thing to do. To dare greatly is what being human is all about. I expect one day to see that MWiF AI. It will take some time to get there. Alot more time than TCPIP will. We need NetPlay to bring the MWiF community together and playing. I challenge anyone on this to prove this as wrong headed.

When the players around the world are playing. The door opens for Steve and his AI for MWiF. The game has to be stable first. It has to be able to play between humans. We are the ultimate gamer in the MWiF arena.

Without the Human element the AI is nothing. An entire Planet of MWiF players to choose from is greater than any AI envisioned in the near future. The sheer number of options make me shudder to think an AI wil be able to navigate the myriad combinations. It will take the entire community around the world to find those little hidden bugs before any AI. Because we will playing it Person to Person on the magical net highway.

Switching gears to prioritize the AI now, will not happen. I just don't see it. I want to see an AI. Any AI takes a backseat to Bo, AxelNL, Centuur, warspite1, Shellshock, Zorachus99, Dabrion, alex_van_d, and dozens more players who feel and think and live today all together at this point in time. An AI can be for the next generation of MWiF players for all i care. NetPlay is a much easier project to complete after the stable game platform.

My gut feeling is that it was always intended to be NetPlay first. But the game does need to be stable as a foundation to play the game. That's where we need to be now. Maybe if they marketed MWiF as a beta early release, they could have had much more respect among some of the more disappointed buyers. That's just a simple fantasy easy to dismiss from today's reality.

Anyone interested in looking at the history of Netplay need only go to the Sticky Thread MWIF Monthly Reports. You will see 2012 as possibly the key year where NetPlay had major surgery. Feb 2012 is a good month to read.

What kind of NetPlay options are we gonna get?

Now, this is a post that I 100% agree on...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was simply commenting on Shaddocks analysis. If the lesson you learn from this project is "complex wargames are generally hard to bring to the computer", then you fail to see the whole picture. Some parts of the decision-making that lead to the mess we see today were perhaps more important, than the inherent complexity of the problem. When you want to get a proper assessment you have to ask the right questions (beyond "who did it", as it is not about blame).

Please spare me with another iteration of the "no takers, we can be so glad they picked it up" argument. There never was a competition, else I would have know about it.

p.s.: Rather than interpreting everything I say in terms of personal attacks think about facts for moment. I don't care for Matrix and/or Steve.. beyond the fact that they dropped the ball on this project.. big time

quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb

quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls.

Hell, that was answered with the first post.
The rest is just "splash" damage.

Funny Dorb...and true

Yep, shame it was not locked down after that first one from Warspite1. Maybe would have helped with some of the high blood pressure situations created.

Hey, for folks that need a WWII fix while we wait, why not grab Commander:Europe at war it's not bad and only $10. It's on the light side but may lighten up the mood.

(in reply to YohanTM)