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Damaged ships - 2/4/2003 10:07:27 PM   
loader6

 

Posts: 198
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I was wondering what other people thought about damaged ships dropping out of their parent TF and attempting to retire?

The reason I ask is because I recently lost a CV because of it. I was invading Port Moresby and the Soryu was hit and unable to conduct flight ops and dropped out of the TF with the other carriers. Fine except for it started to retire and the next turn it and it's DD escort were caught in the open. The Soryu lived though and I ordered it to move to the same hex as my other carriers were moving. There should have been no problem since the Soryu only had one hex to move and the other CVs had only two to go. What's the CPT of the Soryu do? Sets himself to retire again even though I told him to patrol!!! WTF over?! You guessed it, Soryu gets hit again. But she still lives. Finally I figure out to have my air combat TF follow the Soryus and everything works out. But I went from having a CV with about 30 sys, 15 float, and 30 fire damage to one that was ruined and I finally scuttled it because it kept trying to retire when all it had to do was stay in the same hex as the air combat TF and it probably would have lived (of course that's a big probably since Japanese damage control parties are inept). Does this happen to other people? I've seen it before with DDs and CAs, but I was usually running away and left them in their own groups, but the Soryu I was trying to keep alive and if it had stayed in it's TF.

I'd really like to see something where you can set the TFs so damaged ships either drop out or they don't or something like that. What's everyone else think.
Post #: 1
- 2/4/2003 10:26:35 PM   
Weathersfield

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 2/2/2003
Status: offline 		I had a CA that was damaged so I created a new TF with that CA and a single DD as escort and set them to return to Brisbane. Next turn the CA is by itself and the DD is a new TF all by it self. They were both retireing to Brisbane. I would think that there is some way to keep these together.

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 2
I think - 2/4/2003 10:55:51 PM   
Admiral_Arctic

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 8/15/2002
From: Nonamia
Status: offline 		I think if you put more DD in the withdrawing TF, when the CV splits it will take a DD with it.

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Post #: 3
- 2/5/2003 12:36:19 AM   
HawaiiFive-O

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline 		The frustrating thing is that the ships act suicidally.

No sane transport captain, upon being torpedoed heading into Port Moresby would then immediately turn around and attempt to reach Cairns whilst fires are burning all around him and sea water is flooding his hold.

No sane carrier captain, upon having his carrier ravaged by enemy air, would breakaway from the other friendly carriers in a futile attempt to make it back to port.

There are ways to get around these situations, but it is silly that we have to work around the game's idiosyncrasies in an effort to keep our captains from committing suicide.

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 4
He followed orders - 2/5/2003 12:41:14 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HawaiiFive-O
[B]The frustrating thing is that the ships act suicidally.

No sane transport captain, upon being torpedoed heading into Port Moresby would then immediately turn around and attempt to reach Cairns whilst fires are burning all around him and sea water is flooding his hold.

No sane carrier captain, upon having his carrier ravaged by enemy air, would breakaway from the other friendly carriers in a futile attempt to make it back to port.

There are ways to get around these situations, but it is silly that we have to work around the game's idiosyncrasies in an effort to keep our captains from committing suicide. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi, The ships are just following orders. When you make a TF and send it out in harms way YOU! should take an extra moment and decide where damaged ships should retire to. YOU! know they always return to their homeport.

I'm suprised the player with the damaged carrier did not have everything running to nearsest size 3 port. The ship captain knew
hanging around with level 30 fires was crazy.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 5
- 2/5/2003 12:59:57 AM   
HawaiiFive-O

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: USA
Status: offline 		I do know how to work around the situations, as I stated.

Yes, always set the home port to the destination port.

Yes, set the healthy CVs to follow the damaged CV back to port.

Yes the ships are just following my orders. But they are following orders given to a healthy ship at the start of the turn. There is no contingency planning, no common sense on the part of the ship's captain. That's what I'm complaining about. I know how to work around the situation, it's dumb that I have to.

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 6
Planning - 2/5/2003 1:36:14 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I do not see where it is dumb to have plans in advance for how to react to situations. If the TF completes it's mission safely and you want to go home you change the homeport again.
(Really it should not be called homeport. Except for the Australian ships no ship in UV has a homeport on the UV map.
It should be called "retire to" or "emergancy" port.
Setting these in advance is the contingency planning.
We know damaged ships will try to retire. We know they retire towards their home port.
It would be nice if we could assign ships to assist in damage control (or tow) but we can't. What we can do is plan ahead and try to keep ships at sea as close as possible to friendly size 3 port. And assign that port as homeport before setting out.

No system is perfect. Range from friendly bases should be a factor is deciding where to send your TF's. (I've seen many enemy operations produce a long trail of sinking ships back over the path they came.)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 7
- 2/5/2003 3:25:03 AM   
loader6

 

Posts: 198
Joined: 5/21/2002
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Mogami I was attempting to take Port Moresby and had bypassed Gilli-Gilli. The damage occured a few hexes south and west of Gilli-Gilli so there was no good port to set the Carrier to retire to. Besides, there was no reason for him to retire since the other carriers were providing protection and even with Jap damage control, I'm pretty sure she would have recovered and resumed flight ops in two turns or so. Instead I have to keep trying different things every turn till I figure out the right way to keep all my carriers together. Of course this caused me to have to pull some of my carriers away from my transport fleet because they have to follow another carrier that when originally damaged could still keep up with the transports and should have stayed in it's TF. I'll admit, I didn't know the proper way to game around the problem with my Carrier trying to retire and learned the hard way, but it made me realize that I don't like the fact that ships automatically drop out of TFs. There are times I want it (like for a TF that has to move fast, say bombardment, get in, get out and a damaged ship could cause them all to get caught and not just one. But other times, like when I'm far from any level 3 ports and a carrier is damaged but if it seperates it'll be a sitting duck, then I'd rather have my TF stay together. I don't know if this is possible to make happen in WITP or another UV patch but I'd love to see it.

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 8
TF Speed - 2/5/2003 4:14:03 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, The ship drops out because it can no longer keep up.
If your picturing the healthy ships forming circle around the damaged one and the entire TF moving along at reduced speed
your opening the door for a whole new set of problems in a PBEM game.

(What would all you opponents do if they saw this TF moving 2 hexes per day?)

Ships do drop out of TF's because of damage. What would you say to a TF commander that halted a bombarment mission because one of his ships hit a mine or a sub torpedo?
The TF commander did the right thing leaving the cripple, and the ship captain did the right thing trying to exit the battle area.

There are several cases in UV where you can not change the captains mind. (only where he will head)
Subs out of torpedo's or low on fuel will go home, you can not stop them only redirect them.
Ships that are damaged to where they can no longer remain inside the TF because of mission setting (aircombat TF with carrier that can not conduct flight ops-aside from flight deck and other considerations the carrier must make a certain speed to conduct ops.) Keeping the cripple would prevent the healthy carriers from
doing flight ops. (remember the program does not take in to account things like a TF protecting a cripple while also escorting healthy ships)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 9
- 2/5/2003 4:17:28 AM   
m0ngoose


Posts: 50
Joined: 12/19/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Mogami-

I've also seen transports redirect automatically when they are at zero fuel even if I reset their course every pulse.

I think all ships automatically go to HOME when at zero fuel. And I've seen the sub thing happen too.

_____________________________

"May your sword be wet as a woman in her prime."

(in reply to loader6)
Post #: 10
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