Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
With PDU OFF only 4x42 Sentais can upgrade to mr.Tojo...and only 1 to KI-44a...which means that at best you're gonna have 160 Tojos (a, b and c) only by dec 1942 (if you heavily research the Tojo line so to have both the b and c version).

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
It is not passable to downgrade model with PDU OFF. Right?

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ORIGINAL: cohimbra

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this

Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.

Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...

The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.

I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.

But i wanna test a bit more....

Having just been on the receiving end of a Manila strike only I can offer some input. Of 27 submarines at Manila all were sunk. KB then disappeared and did not support further operations in the DEI. CV Kaga and all the CVL/CVE's are enough to support operations in the DEI. Factor in the Betty/Nell threat once based in the DEI and there is little need to add KB. KB is certainly capable of taking out the submarine threat at Manila and still be available for operations in the Central or Southeast Pacific as early as January 42, even sooner if needed. Is it better to take out the submarine threat rather than damage as much of the American surface force at Pearl Harbor? I don't know. Personally I like having the fleet intact and providing I don't squander the surface assets they may have a far reaching impact. Do I miss the submarines? Sure, but we all know how ineffective they are for all of 1942 and the number of reinforcements is substantial. Time will tell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Accelerating Carriers.

You will have problems with air groups that arrive with accelerated carriers.
Most of them arrive with A6M5b/c, B6N1/2 and D4Y models. You must be aware that You can stuck with groups that can fly models that will enter production in the future. So in extreme cases it can be months before unit can take replacements.

It is not passable to downgrade model with PDU OFF. Right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: EHansen

You may not have as many other means to counter the Allied subs as you expect. You will have a number of IJA bomber units restricted to Ki-51 and Ki-51b for the entire war.
They have limited range and limited bomb load. You should expect your airborne ASW to be much weaker than your other games.

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ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

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ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this

Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.

Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...

The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.

I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.

But i wanna test a bit more....

Having just been on the receiving end of a Manila strike only I can offer some input. Of 27 submarines at Manila all were sunk. KB then disappeared and did not support further operations in the DEI. CV Kaga and all the CVL/CVE's are enough to support operations in the DEI. Factor in the Betty/Nell threat once based in the DEI and there is little need to add KB. KB is certainly capable of taking out the submarine threat at Manila and still be available for operations in the Central or Southeast Pacific as early as January 42, even sooner if needed. Is it better to take out the submarine threat rather than damage as much of the American surface force at Pearl Harbor? I don't know. Personally I like having the fleet intact and providing I don't squander the surface assets they may have a far reaching impact. Do I miss the submarines? Sure, but we all know how ineffective they are for all of 1942 and the number of reinforcements is substantial. Time will tell.

My opinion is that some house rules twist the strategic decisions on the employment of the KB on turn 1. Manila is in range of Japanese LBA. The only reason most use to strike the Port with the KB is one port strike on the first turn house rule. I play both sides, and never restrict port attacks, but also allow the Allied player to set the PI squadrons to CAP consistent with the Brit squadrons in Malayasia (30-40%). This accounts for the warning the Pearl Attack gives the MacArthur's Air Force before dawn on 8 Dec, but the first turn surprise rule accounts for the Allies significant underestimation of Japanese aircraft range. If I attack the port at Manila with LBA from Formosa, I tend to get very reasonable results. I lose a number of Japanese aircraft and crews as a penalty for not suppressing the airfields first, but damage and sink an number of ships and subs. The only issue I find is the high experience Nell and Beatty crews tend to carry the wrong load-out for the target, carrying the BB killer single large bomb instead of a more appropriate 4 X 250KG load. This is a minor game engine flaw.

For those who argue against this, I would note that only a single Asiatic Fleet submarine in port at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor responded by putting to sea before dawn broke over the Philippines. This situation did not change throughout the day as the weather cleared over Formosa and the Japanese began striking the airfields on the PI. It took a while for the true scale of the risk the Asiatic Fleet was in to become clear.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

Regarding the effectiveness of CAP over Manila, et al, then do you play with first turn surprise = off?

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I quite like PDU off. With stacking limits and PDU on, a competent japanese player can really build a great defense in 43/44 and I can of dislike seeing the japanese able to sweep the allies to death in late 44. It just shouldn't be, and I am more of a JFB... PDU off should help balance things out a bit. What I would really like to see would be a bit of a composite model, where PDU is possible but limited in numbers and very very very costly in PP. So sure you could turn 5 IJN daitais into Georges, but each of them is going to set you back many PPs you can't use to get divisions from China or good leaders. In such a "extremely costly PDU" set up, you would see Japanese players spending some on geting more quality IJN and IJA fighters in the air, but not too much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Accelerating Carriers.

You will have problems with air groups that arrive with accelerated carriers.
Most of them arrive with A6M5b/c, B6N1/2 and D4Y models. You must be aware that You can stuck with groups that can fly models that will enter production in the future. So in extreme cases it can be months before unit can take replacements.

It is not passable to downgrade model with PDU OFF. Right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Since it is a reduced cargo game, don't overlook the need to have cargo space converted over to troops space. There are some classes of xAKs that are no longer able to do this. It is easy to try to do too many in a smaller port base like CamRahn Bay and and push completions times from less than 10 days to over 15 days.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this

Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.

Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...

The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.

I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.

But i wanna test a bit more....

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this

Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.

Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...

The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.

I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.

But i wanna test a bit more....

Have to agree GJ. The one overlooked advantage to the PH attack it the chance to kill a lot of valuable PBYs on the first day. The Allies are hampered by the lack of search aircraft in the early months. The more of these you can kill the better.

You are really a "glutton for self punishment" With PDU off you are pretty much stuck with some very historical problems. Obvert is a skilled opponent and I think you have to expect the Allies to be kicking you hard by early 43. Your planes are just too weak with PDU on. Even the British air force will have teeth vs your zeros and oscars. The tojo is so critical to Japan that with only four groups available, he is going to just be able to overwhelm them when he chooses to fight. Good hunting to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Can I suggest sending 2 tank regimens to Urumchi ? It is easy to take 50 oil centers and you can have it before 1 Jan '42.

quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

First, dear Greyjoy, has Valentina been consulted on the start of a new game? I can only imagine dinner conversations. (over low candlelight, with the last of a good wine)

Valentina: Greyjoy, uh, excuse me, I mean, uh, Nicky. Are we having dessert tonight?

Nicky: Hummmm, should I really convert two factories to the Zero 3a or stick with one?

Valentina: Zero, what? Is this a liquor over gelato? Nicky, you really are full of surprises! What is this "Zero"?

Nicky: Valentina, my one and only love (this week), I beg your forgiveness, but I must really make a call to a, uh, client. My uh, hummmm, client, 59nygiants, has some urgent information on cargo issues regarding my class Formosa AKs.

Valentina: Oh no, Nicky. You are suffering from AKs? My darling, look at me. The light here is so low, I did not notice. Are you getting them treated soon? And what is this about cargo? Can you not put your clients aside for tonight? I really hoped we could enjoy our dessert and then retire to your place for another kind of sweetness (shy smile).

Nicky: Oh, my sweet darling, I really am just swamped with "work" tonight. I have to plan several, uh, invasion....well, uh strategies. You know how busy I have been. But, maybe later in the evening I could spare a few moments for you.

Valentina: A few moments, huh. Well, Nicky, my once and former lover, maybe I will retire elsewhere and you can find a few moments to do something else with your hands. I think we'll just skip dessert tonight! (slams napkin down)

Nicky: Well, hummmm, let me see, if I don't build those Oscars, I could.....(trails off, as Valentina reaches for her steak knife)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

If I was to play the Japanese now I would consider skipping the PH attack. Best case you sink a couple of obsolete battleships while leaving your carriers in an area where they can't support the critical advance into the DEI, Burma and perhaps India/Oz... Consider this

Also thinking about that.
However the KB in the DEI is a double edged sword.
Without the KB, i cannot advance anywhere in the pacific...not even Wake, Tarawa or Rabaul...let alone PM.

Also, from my tests, an attack against Manila isn't that usefull... those subs can be nasty, but Japan has other means to counter them...

The usual PH attack hurt the allied airforce, keep the repair yards busy for years and may also damage or sink some precious cruisers.

I'm leaning towards what i did against QBall...Kaga in the DEI and the KB against PH, so having enough assets to support both a pacific and a DEI advance.

But i wanna test a bit more....

Have to agree GJ. The one overlooked advantage to the PH attack it the chance to kill a lot of valuable PBYs on the first day. The Allies are hampered by the lack of search aircraft in the early months. The more of these you can kill the better.

You are really a "glutton for self punishment" With PDU off you are pretty much stuck with some very historical problems. Obvert is a skilled opponent and I think you have to expect the Allies to be kicking you hard by early 43. Your planes are just too weak with PDU on. Even the British air force will have teeth vs your zeros and oscars. The tojo is so critical to Japan that with only four groups available, he is going to just be able to overwhelm them when he chooses to fight. Good hunting to you.