Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Do you count every factory as size 30? or just RnD factories? That would mean hell of a supply investment ... I doubt Japan has that much..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

Just a few thoughts. It is a good of you to document all this research: makes it easier for anyone else planning to play PDU off.

You seem to be planning on producing all the needed models throughout the war. Instead, you could build stockpiles early that should last the war out and then change to something else. If you build too many then you can use them up as kamikazes, if you build too few you can consign the groups for training roles.

This could reduce the need to spread thinly.

Have you checked withdrawal dates? I think some of the groups that seem to get stuck with obsolete models do so because they are withdrawn before the new models are available.

Some more detailed comments.

I think there are relatively few groups that upgrade to the Ki-83 and most of them are groups already flying fairly modern models. However, there are lots of groups that fly the Oscar and can upgrade to the Ki-94-II. So I suggest putting lots of effort into the Ki-94-II.

There is one 9 plane group restricted to the Lorna. As that plane is so hopeless, can you just consign that group to training with the 2 aircraft it comes with and free up a factory for something useful?

Do you need the D4Y2-S? I think all the groups that use this can fly the Irving.

Ki-119 - 12th Sentai I think is a group that upgrades to this. However, you could leave the group flying the Lily (or Sally) and not build it at all.

Do you need that much effort on the Ki-45a? The time before it is available is so short that you are unlikely to advance it.

Do you need the Ki-102b or can you leave groups that upgrade to it on their predecessor?

Do you need the Ki-54c? I think the 108th Sentai is the only thing that uses it and that can change to the Ki-57-II.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Thats a shed load of supply

Are you sure you want to use that much on R & D?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

You need about 6 factories on the Ki-94-II to expect to have it available in December 1944. 4 factories would have it available mid January 1945 (or you could get lucky or unlucky - there is a lot of spread with long research times).

If you plan to survive to May 1946 then that gives you 15 months to use it and you should have the supply, engines and HI to deploy it.

Do you have any altitude HR? If you do, it may handicap the Ki-94-II as the max ceiling is its biggest strength.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

You need about 6 factories on the Ki-94-II to expect to have it available in December 1944. 4 factories would have it available mid January 1945 (or you could get lucky or unlucky - there is a lot of spread with long research times).

If you plan to survive to May 1946 then that gives you 15 months to use it and you should have the supply, engines and HI to deploy it.

Do you have any altitude HR? If you do, it may handicap the Ki-94-II as the max ceiling is its biggest strength.

Yes, we will have limited altitude to 32K from 1944 on...

Really seems too much of investment for a 1945/46 plane.

quote:


I'm leaning towards the very same option I used with QBall... stopping any RnD after Ki-84 line...so to say get the N1K1, the J2M3, the KI-84a and then stop and let the rest arrive when the time has come...

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
KI-54c: my mistake, wanted to write KI-54b! Which is a crappy bomber to which many late arrival sentais are stuck...

quote:

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
KI-54c: my mistake, wanted to write KI-54b! Which is a crappy bomber to which many late arrival sentais are stuck...

I don't know if DBB reinforcement and upgrade are the same that stock game...anyway,
about Ki-54b, you don't need to build it to fill the groups. In my reinforcement list
they came in May 1945 with four Shinbu-tai (299th, 300th, 303rd, 304th), and all of this
came full of planes (10 each). You can use this 40 Ki-54b as one-shoot-airplane and then
disband the groups. O no?

Now I've a question for you: all the Ki-48-Ib Sentai upgrades to Ki-48-IIa and then switch
to Ki-48-IIb/IIc (Lily Dive Bomber version) before they can be updgraded to other model (some
in Ki-119, some in Ki-45 KAIc and so on)...what you think to do with this Sentai? Keep all the
Ki-48-IIa for the entire war (and maybe use their 4x100kg bomb for ASW)? Or...? Or what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I largely agree, however have you looked at the Transport groups? I noticed that you are stopping the Thalia. Can all groups upgrade to Topsy? I like the Topsy, in general, over the Thalia, so in general I like this decision...but I didn't see any note about "dead end" transport sentais.


Other comments:

* The 3x Rufe R&D are for A6M5 and beyond?

* No Seiran? Or did I miss it somewhere in your list (I thought it was M6A1 or something)? Or do no groups use it? Likewise, the Paul? Or did your previous experiment with this plane (it was you, right?) not work out?

* Are you going to R&D all of those late-war planes from the start? I realize there's a supply cost to using the same factory to R&D multiple lines, but realistically we know that you won't get any return from the investment on planes like the Randy and Ki-83 for several years of game time. If Realistic R&D is set to On... maybe you aren't able to convert many of these factories to as wide a variety of planes?


I think you are largely limited by the air groups more than anything else, so the initial production makes sense. And the places you have chosen to focus in R&D imply which groups will be your front line units, which will be second string, etc. I think it makes sense, but I did have those questions above .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

You need about 6 factories on the Ki-94-II to expect to have it available in December 1944. 4 factories would have it available mid January 1945 (or you could get lucky or unlucky - there is a lot of spread with long research times).

If you plan to survive to May 1946 then that gives you 15 months to use it and you should have the supply, engines and HI to deploy it.

Do you have any altitude HR? If you do, it may handicap the Ki-94-II as the max ceiling is its biggest strength.

Yes, we will have limited altitude to 32K from 1944 on...

Really seems too much of investment for a 1945/46 plane.

Most of the supply investment will come in 1944 when you have a better idea of whether you can survive to 1946.

quote:


I'm leaning towards the very same option I used with QBall... stopping any RnD after Ki-84 line...so to say get the N1K1, the J2M3, the KI-84a and then stop and let the rest arrive when the time has come...

Is this game realistic R&D off? If so, then you don't need to stop at the first of a line. You can build enough to fill out the groups that can use the first model quickly then restart R&D with the next in line. You can be adaptive in this, moving factories forward as the production demand drops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I largely agree, however have you looked at the Transport groups? I noticed that you are stopping the Thalia. Can all groups upgrade to Topsy? I like the Topsy, in general, over the Thalia, so in general I like this decision...but I didn't see any note about "dead end" transport sentais.


Other comments:

* The 3x Rufe R&D are for A6M5 and beyond?

* No Seiran? Or did I miss it somewhere in your list (I thought it was M6A1 or something)? Or do no groups use it? Likewise, the Paul? Or did your previous experiment with this plane (it was you, right?) not work out?

* Are you going to R&D all of those late-war planes from the start? I realize there's a supply cost to using the same factory to R&D multiple lines, but realistically we know that you won't get any return from the investment on planes like the Randy and Ki-83 for several years of game time. If Realistic R&D is set to On... maybe you aren't able to convert many of these factories to as wide a variety of planes?


I think you are largely limited by the air groups more than anything else, so the initial production makes sense. And the places you have chosen to focus in R&D imply which groups will be your front line units, which will be second string, etc. I think it makes sense, but I did have those questions above .

Yup, the Rufes are for the A6M5 and the Sen Baku is to be able to get the upgrade path of those groups which have the SEN Baku as a chokepoint to the A6M5b version...

Seiran? Yes, I don't want it. It's a float TB plane...used on late huge subs...a waste of resources imho. Don't plan to build any of those sub-monsters.
Paul... I know... I have only 2 sentais coming in 1000+ days with those planes... with no upgrade paths... worth?
Norm.. I've loved this float plane, but can't find a single unit that upgrades to it...am I missing something??

To be honest, even if it's cool and trendy to RnD those late war planes, in a realistic PDU OFF scenario, you're not gonna have that much return from them, even if you invest a lot of resources.
How many groups upgrade to the KI-83 line? 4 Sentais
How many to the J7W1? 7 Sentais
How many to the KI-94 II?...A LOT!
How many to the KI-84a? A LOT!

So... I need to change my mind and my plans.
Way less investments in the Ki.83 and reconsider the other production lines...

What do u imply Lokaseanna with your last question? Supply is really critical for Japan and both me and Obvert have seen the last year of war and we both know what really limits Japanese ability to keep on fighting isn't the quality of its planes but, above all, the supplies (the lack of them).
So is it really worth to spend thousands of supplies to convert the same RnD factories on multiple lines, even being able to do that? Isn't it better to simply be less trendy and stick with lots of crappy planes, while reasonably focus on very few usefull lines? Like the Ki.43, Ki-44 and A6M ones?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I really don't wanna abuse the Realistic RnD OFF system. For example I won't convert the A6M2 factories to A6M2 Sen Baku ones. I would like to play a game as much realistic as possible. So to say, we all know that the Ki-44b is crap...but the Japanese didn't know that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
]


I really don't wanna abuse the Realistic RnD OFF system. For example I won't convert the A6M2 factories to A6M2 Sen Baku ones. I would like to play a game as much realistic as possible. So to say, we all know that the Ki-44b is crap...but the Japanese didn't know that. probably they would need a feedback from the pilots first before moving to the KI-44c line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'll take you in another direction again Nic. Any consideration on expanding some Light or Heavy Industry in Japan very early in the war as some of it will pay back by 45?? Since Refineries don't produce supply in DBB, this has to be considered. Maybe even in Manchuria as it sees even less 4e bombers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
]


I really don't wanna abuse the Realistic RnD OFF system. For example I won't convert the A6M2 factories to A6M2 Sen Baku ones. I would like to play a game as much realistic as possible. So to say, we all know that the Ki-44b is crap...but the Japanese didn't know that. probably they would need a feedback from the pilots first before moving to the KI-44c line.

That's what I will do! I'll keep RnD the mid-models even if I wouldn't want to fly them. Tojo IIb, J2M3 etc...and I will produce them too!
So, to be clear, say I have 4x30 factories RnD the KI-44a. When the Ki-44a will be available, i'll change one of them to production and change 3x30 to RnD the "b" model and so on...



I could not agree with this more. Frankly, I have always been suspicious of the research model that allows for parallel research of models that I suspect were sequential. Frankly, I would have expected that a player should have to completely research the Ki-44b before converting the research effort to the Ki-44c. I get very rationale (seeming) results playing Japanese R&D this way. The whole line gets accelerated, dogs and all. Meanwhile, parallel research efforts are going on for different airframes entirely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'll take you in another direction again Nic. Any consideration on expanding some Light or Heavy Industry in Japan very early in the war as some of it will pay back by 45?? Since Refineries don't produce supply in DBB, this has to be considered. Maybe even in Manchuria as it sees even less 4e bombers.

Ohhh... the question that has no answers! I've followed the debate that has arisen in the forum during the last two years about that... to be honest? I don't know... Probably i'll expand some HI at Sosarbaja and GeorgeTown...i'll think about doing so in Japan... not so sure about the long term benefits to be honest

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Nic,

If I was you, I would go buy a case of nice wine ... a mellow red from down near Foggia maybe, and then get on a Train and go visit Francois. He's got the only AAR in a long time on a PDU OFF. His insight as to what to R&D would be invaluable IMHO. Besides, I think he would be great company in "breaking" a few bottles. Thats just me though ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

In a Scenario 1 game I got good results expanding total HI moderately. Most was in Georgetown and Singers, but I did some in China as well. Part of that was a response to a stubborn pool of fuel, supplies and resources that developed in Hong Kong once I opened the land route to SE Asia, however. I repaired some LI in Java as well, but that was done for military reasons (make the place self sufficient supply wise) rather than economic reasons. I suspect by the letter of the law that would not have paid back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

In the CENTPAC and SOPAC I'm leaning towards a very slow approach. Marshalls, Rabaul, Solomons as usual. PM will be invested and so will be Horn Island, but i'll take my time. Not sure if I wanna go to Noumea and Suva. Not sure yet. Hate the long SLOCs...

My mind is focused on supplies in this match. On the long term goals.... getting to 1945 with a good economic situation...and I do not mean HIs... supplies are much more important!